I'm convinced that when I die I'm just going to come back here.

[Wayfaerer]

But if the indeterminate interpretation is true, then might you not find yourself under far better circumstances in some iterations?

Yes, you're right. However, all of that is determined (haha) by whether the copenhagen interpretation is correct. If what you propose just so happens to be true, then yes, you would. However, I see the universe as deterministic, so no, it would be an exact repeat every single f'ing time.

 

[someone02]

But if the indeterminate interpretation is true, then might you not find yourself under far better circumstances in some iterations?

Right! All circumstances possible exist.

 

[RedDEE]

I will make one more post - my final thoughts on the issue.

You guys are seeking the understanding of the totality of existence itself. You're trying to understand EVERYTHING. I get it - you just want to understand. You're approaching this problem by looking to science and physics for understanding. That is the correct thing to do - but you must not be arrogant, and think that you already know everything. You must not be hard-headed, and refuse to budge from your position. You have to stop your biases, and detach yourself, if you ever want to be a true scientist and truth seeker.

Meta-physics is a slippery slope. The deeper you go into it, the more complicated it gets. As you dive into it, it starts looking like this,



You try to comprehend as much as you can, but it gets confusing. So many paradoxes, so many conflicting theories and interpretations. There's about two thousand different conflicting theories about what happens at the end of the universe, and was there a beginning, and blah blah blah. You have to work hard to understand, and not get hung up on things - you have to move forward in your understandings.

Once you start letting go of your biases, and you start understanding more of the terminology, more of the math, more of the philosophy of the consequences of physics, and really grasp the understanding of the nature of reality, and the workings of existence - something happens. All along you were looking at these problems through the eyes of a scientist. But when you get a small glance of the truth, when you SEE, and I mean really see and really understand the idea of EVERYTHING. Every. Possible. Thing. You take off your nerdy science glasses, and you get down on your knees. And you Hail Mary, Buddha, and the Holy Ghost.

You realize that this idea is beyond science. It certainly contains science, and you came to understand this thing through science. But you know - you are looking at religion. Not the kind of religion where you go to church and they ask for all your money. I mean, when you really get it, you realize that this SUPER-STRUCTURE of the multiverse containing all possibilities - it's GOD.

So I will end this with a prayer.

Oh super-structure of the multiverse, unnamed and ineffable are thee. For language and words fall short to describe your awesomeness. Your size is unlimited, and cannot be known by the human mind, thus I bow down to your infinite glory. My human lifespan is temporary, while you never die. Immortal are thee, oh super intelligence containing all knowledge that can never be destroyed. Your planes of existence are infinidimensional and pandimensional, containing all possibilities which are endless, and your joy knows no bounds. Holy is thee, you who contains all religious and physical truths. I am but a drop of water, separated from your ocean of wisdom. My drop of water is flowing down the river of the misery of life, towards your ocean of peace. When I die, I will be rejoined in the ocean of your majestic wonder, and I will never know suffering again within your eternal bliss.

Amen.

 

[someone02]

@Wayfaerer: Thanks for your hug!
@ExitStageLeft and @Wayfaerer: Thanks for your "Likes"! That means so much to me.

Have a good night. I'm going to bed now.

 

[Wayfaerer]

@Wayfaerer: Thanks for your hug!
@ExitStageLeft and @Wayfaerer: Thanks for your "Likes"! That means so much to me.

Have a good night. I'm going to bed now.

Sleep well

I will make one more post - my final thoughts on the issue.

You guys are seeking the understanding of the totality of existence itself. You're trying to understand EVERYTHING. I get it - you just want to understand. You're approaching this problem by looking to science and physics for understanding. That is the correct thing to do - but you must not be arrogant, and think that you already know everything. You must not be hard-headed, and refuse to budge from your position. You have to stop your biases, and detach yourself, if you ever want to be a true scientist and truth seeker.

Meta-physics is a slippery slope. The deeper you go into it, the more complicated it gets. As you dive into it, it starts looking like this,

View attachment 43237

You try to comprehend as much as you can, but it gets confusing. So many paradoxes, so many conflicting theories and interpretations. There's about two thousand different conflicting theories about what happens at the end of the universe, and was there a beginning, and blah blah blah. You have to work hard to understand, and not get hung up on things - you have to move forward in your understandings.

Once you start letting go of your biases, and you start understanding more of the terminology, more of the math, more of the philosophy of the consequences of physics, and really grasp the understanding of the nature of reality, and the workings of existence - something happens. All along you were looking at these problems through the eyes of a scientist. But when you get a small glance of the truth, when you SEE, and I mean really see and really understand the idea of EVERYTHING. Every. Possible. Thing. You take off your nerdy science glasses, and you get down on your knees. And you Hail Mary, Buddha, and the Holy Ghost.

You realize that this idea is beyond science. It certainly contains science, and you came to understand this thing through science. But you know - you are looking at religion. Not the kind of religion where you go to church and they ask for all your money. I mean, when you really get it, you realize that this SUPER-STRUCTURE of the multiverse containing all possibilities - it's GOD.

So I will end this with a prayer.

Oh super-structure of the multiverse, unnamed and ineffable are thee. For language and words fall short to describe your awesomeness. Your size is unlimited, and cannot be known by the human mind, thus I bow down to your infinite glory. My human lifespan is temporary, while you never die. Immortal are thee, oh super intelligence containing all knowledge that can never be destroyed. Your planes of existence are infinidimensional and pandimensional, containing all possibilities which are endless, and your joy knows no bounds. Holy is thee, you who contains all religious and physical truths. I am but a drop of water, separated from your ocean of wisdom. My drop of water is flowing down the river of the misery of life, towards your ocean of peace. When I die, I will be rejoined in the ocean of your majestic wonder, and I will never know suffering again within your eternal bliss.

Amen.

You're leaving now? But what about all the fun we've had? I could keep this conversation going for, dare I say... forever.

 

[Incorrigible77777]

Maybe you'll make different decisions and things turn out differebtly in the next occurence?

That's exactly what I wish. For each reincarnation, I wish that some abilities (e.g. IQ, luck) "upgrade" and I'll in turn have better and better life in each reincarnation. Or even at some point the memories of last round of life occasionally failed to be erased so that when I'm born again, I still know clearly what happened in the last round of life so that I'll definitely ace this round of life.
Additionally, I do wish that I won't be reincarnated immediately after I die. I wish I could stay for a while e.g. 49 days as suggested in Buddhism, to witness my funeral.

 

[rt1989526]

That's exactly what I wish. For each reincarnation, I wish that some abilities (e.g. IQ, luck) "upgrade" and I'll in turn have better and better life in each reincarnation. Or even at some point the memories of last round of life occasionally failed to be erased so that when I'm born again, I still know clearly what happened in the last round of life so that I'll definitely ace this round of life.

That'd be great, but unfortunately I don't remember anything from the previous life. Which tells me I probably won't remember anything in the next one, if thats how it works.

 

[Spitfire]

(copied & pasted):

In a many-worlds multiverse during the instant after a split has occurred but before any observers have registered the outcome of the measurement. In that instant the observers do not yet know which branch of the universe they are on —

(end copy & paste)

I was watching a series of videos that ExitStageLeft posted on a different thread. It lead to reading up on something called the born rule, which lead to me finding the above statement. This reminds me of what it was I experienced. It was something like this moment.

I keep thinking there must be a way to explain it. Still, I come short of having a decent understanding of an explanation to it for myself. I am not sure why to even write about it, except for share it.

It was the same as having a single experience several months long (about three months) isolated into a block of knowledge, to my understanding.

Song lyrics endlessly on repeat are a small part of how it was happening at the time too.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

Really? Wow, that's crazy. Past and future universes as in other big bangs or universes that split off from a multiverse (if such a thing is more than figurative)? What really gets me is that it seems these physicist never seem to be able to reach a consensus on what happens and I keep hearing different things. I wish I were born 50 years later just so I can get some god damned answers!

Physicists may never reach The Truth about the nature of reality.
It may be what Chomsky calls a mystery, as opposed to a problem, i.e. something which isn't even solvable in principle.

Discovering the true nature of reality might be as impossible for humans as understanding algebraic equations is for a rabbit.

there isn't much room for reincarnation

Why not?

 

[JealousOfTheElderly]

The fear of reincarnation is what is keeping me here. I read somewhere that you have to repeat a life very similar to your current life if you end your own life. I think I I'd rather get this life and its challenges over with rather than risk coming back and repeating it! Of course , I change my mind from time to time...

 

[esse_est_percipi]

@Wayfaerer: Thanks for your hug!
@ExitStageLeft and @Wayfaerer: Thanks for your "Likes"! That means so much to me.

Have a good night. I'm going to bed now.

Does anyone know why this person deactivated their account?

 

[ExitStageLeft]

The fear of reincarnation is what is keeping me here. I read somewhere that you have to repeat a life very similar to your current life if you end your own life. I think I I'd rather get this life and its challenges over with rather than risk coming back and repeating it! Of course , I change my mind from time to time...

The closest thing to reincarnation I can conceptualize is generic subjective continuity/existential passages, in which case, if true, your current life can have no relation to 'your' next other than the fact of subjective experience.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

I read somewhere that you have to repeat a life very similar to your current life if you end your own life

Sounds like a story told by humans to create fear.

Whenever I read a theory, hypothesis, assertion, claim about the nature of existence/what happens after death/the meaning of life etc, I ask myself:

does this claim produce fear in me? Would my behavior/future actions be modified in accordance with this fear?

If the answer is yes to both questions, I know it's probably a human invention and therefore isn't true.

 

[Mr2005]

This is what puts me off. Imagine growing up now. Maybe I'll remain in blissful ignorance again until I'm an adult but I doubt it. At least I'd get to do my youth again but not as me. I just want to go back, that's all I want. Because I can't I want to die but then I'm back to these concerns. It just goes round in circles

 

[rt1989526]

Did @ExitStageLeft self ban or get banned or what?

 

[RedDEE]

Did @ExitStageLeft self ban or get banned or what?

I want to know too. What the fuck - that was sudden. What happened??!?

 

[esse_est_percipi]

I want to know too. What the fuck - that was sudden. What happened??!?

What happened to him??

Really weird that his account was deactivated all of a sudden.

@Wayfaerer do you know what happened to @ExitStageLeft ?

 

[OnlyTheWind]

As a believer in the teachings of the former Heaven's Gate cult, I do believe in re-incarnation. Through the lens of the cult, we see this world as a mere stepping stone acting as an opportunity to abandon all human ways, desires and behaviours in preparation for Next Level membership (a non-human, non-mammalian, non-reproductive world beyond time and space). When the time comes, I'll know that what I did was make progress on a grand scale as well as be free from this awful place. If you want more information, their website is still up.

 

[RedDEE]

As a believer in the teachings of the former Heaven's Gate cult, I do believe in re-incarnation. Through the lens of the cult, we see this world as a mere stepping stone acting as an opportunity to abandon all human ways, desires and behaviours in preparation for Next Level membership (a non-human, non-mammalian, non-reproductive world beyond time and space). When the time comes, I'll know that what I did was make progress on a grand scale as well as be free from this awful place. If you want more information, their website is still up.

Amen. I am a Satanic believer in The Temple Of Black Light, which basically has the same teachings.

After we die, we do 'reincarnate'. Our current life ends, and we 'reincarnate' into a new life that lasts forever - a life of eternal peace.

 

[Ghost2211]

I also came to see why his name is crossed out. He was here so recently, and then gone so suddenly.

 

[Joey]

I also came to see why his name is crossed out. He was here so recently, and then gone so suddenly.

Maybe this site was taking a toll on him. It can do that to you with lots of things going on...especially with 3-4 users CTB, within a span of a couple of days. Who knows.

 

[TheQ22]

I want to know too. What the fuck - that was sudden. What happened??!?

The universe decided to enlighten him and he ended up on the multiverse path that collapsed and ceased to exist. He's now stuck in a cafe floating in space forever with Sapphire and Steel.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

It looks like this thread is tapering off.
It ended up becoming a veritable multiverse of a thread.

 

[Wayfaerer]

Damn, ExitStageLeft is banned? I didn't wake up until just an hour ago so I wasn't following this thread during all of this time so I have no idea why he left.

Why not?

I am all for being open minded, but not to the point where we consider things based on faith alone and this is what reincarnation requires. If we are to live at all, it will only be within the continuity of our brain's structure and the time that they had formed our consciousness. The way I see it, if there are other iterations of universes that the multiverse cycles through or the universe recycles itself with big bangs, time would not carry in between each iteration of the universe so that is how I can see the numeral problem can be worked around. Reincarnation necessary implies that consciousnesses can be transfered from one unique organism from another and I just can't see how that is in anyway feasible.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

faith alone and this is what reincarnation requires. If we are to live at all, it will only be within the continuity of our brain's structure and the time that they had formed our consciousness

I don't think I believe in reincarnation, but I don't think belief in it has to be based on faith alone either.

You may consider this only anecdotal evidence and therefore unreliable, but there are many personal accounts and case studies of people/children claiming they have memories of 'past lives', i.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty_Cases_Suggestive_of_Reincarnation

There are also philosophical arguments for its possibility which I won't get into here. The point is is that belief in reincarnation doesn't have to be based on complete faith. And I don't see an actual contradiction in saying that a conscious awareness that occurs in person x at time t continues in person y at time t1 (because there is no center or metaphysical subject of conscious awareness. The impression of having a self is an illusion. Person x dying and person y being born might just be an opportunity for the conscious awareness to shift its spacetime perspective.)

But anyway, here's hoping for eternal peace.

Damn, ExitStageLeft is banned?

Yeah, I have no idea what happened. Though he still seems to be active on his account, which is strange.

 

[Wayfaerer]

@worried_to_death Yes I am already familiar with Ian Stevenson and to be perfectly honest, I think it's nothing but just a bunch of crapolla. You notice how the majority of these cases occur where a belief in reincarnation is the norm? That's already not a good sign. Then you have these instances in the west where kids say things about a past life they've had but it can be easily explained away by kids just making shit up and coincidentally there is a similar person that story just so happens to fit. I wouldn't put any stock in it.

And that's another thing too, figuring out whether we live in a deterministic or indeterministic universe, because there is a lot hinges on this concept. Is there really anyway to find out conclusively at some point in the future? Can we get there with just philosophy? Even if the Copenhagen Interpretation is the correct one, how does quantum indeterminacy at the scale of electrons have an effect on the macroscopic world? Even in the short run, we can see deterministic cause-and-effect at much smaller scales in the likeness of dominoes falling. Even if quantum indeterminacy were to be true, how come life follows a rational and logical causal flow? Why would we assume just because we have consciousness (whatever that really is) that we are the one and only exception within the entire universe?

I equate the "big crunch" with quantum fluctuations, but I find that of the two the latter is more likely. They have a completely different mechanism but the result is the exact same: an eternal universe. I "like" (in a specific sense) these theories because they close up one nagging loophole, what came before the big bang? Even more big bangs and universes! it's such a simple answer to an enormously complicated question. The thought of something coming right out of nothing is 100% non-intuitive and not satisfying at all. What would even be the impetus of such a thing?

 

[Wayfaerer]

@worried_to_death I just thought of this idea and I think it's interesting. There is absolutely no way to empirically prove this so I'm not personally saying that I believe in this but I can see how it makes sense. Just food for thought.

So, let's assume our universe is linear. There is a definite beginning (something out of nothing) and a definite end (heat death w/o quantum fluctuations). In an actual universe, this wouldn't be expected, so I think that's an indication that our universe is a simulation. However deep we are in the simulation chain, there is a real universe somewhere that is eternal as one would expect. So by extension, that would make our universe cyclical. Or maybe they have free will in the base universe? Even if our universe was nothing more than a simulation, leaving it would be literally impossible I would imagine.

Wouldn't that be something?

 

[Beachedwhale]

You would need a lot more assumptions and variables in place than just determinism to get the eternal recurrence outcome.
And also, proving determinism to be true is a big task. Half of physics concerns itself with things that are not determined.
But listen, if this is what you're convinced of then what can anyone else say. I agree it's pretty terrifying to think about, but I think there could be more going on that we don't know about.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy..."

Could you elaborate on the bolded part?

 

[WornOutLife]

I think living the same life over and over again, without memories about your previous one, is unlikely to happen.
However, being born again with your memories preserved, could literally change everything because you can create a new past, present and future.

Sure, it would be impossible to change and control sad events such as one of your family members or pets dying but you could create so many new happy ones.

I will deffo give life a serious chance if I happen to experience this world and body again.

 

[Tintypographer]

I wish I could erase myself from everyone's memory and existence.