I’m abusive

[Water-Lily]

I saw this video on Instagram that spoke about people pleasing. That even though it's a trauma response used as a means of survival to survive abusive situations, when you are outside of the abusive environment it becomes abusive towards others

Even if your intentions aren't to harm, it is still harmful to people around you

These are behaviors that, while they worked when your being abused, harm others outside of your environment

And thinking you deserve a pass for that because of your trauma is a sign of victim mentality

So, every time I have a suicidal melt down and lash out at others it's a form of abuse. It is what it is

I think people like to act "nice" to me and insist I'm not an abuser, when my actions when I'm unstable clearly show that I am

My attempts at getting a reaction, my attempts at trying to get back at someone for hurting me

Even my suicide posts are just ways to jab at people when I'm hurt

I'm a very manipulative and nasty person

Makes me feel like Bojack Horseman sometimes

He lived, because it was better karma for him living with what he did than getting a cheap way out with suicide

If he died by the end of the series, then he would have gotten away from feeling shitty and "escaped". But so long as he's alive, he gets to face every day what he's done

Suicide for me is like that. I wouldn't be just wanting to escape my own trauma, I'd want to escape the consequences of my actions in how I harm and abuse others

Like how I made a mistake at work and I wanted to quit. It was all manipulation

I tricked myself into thinking "well I'm a bad employee and I'm weak I'll leave"

NO. IT WAS VICTIM MENTALITY/MANIPULATION!

And on top of that, I'm a shitty friend

I'll come on here and say "omg I'm having fun with this friend" then say "omg they are annoying". I'm a 2 faced back stabber. Makes me feel so fake being around them. They probably think they have this cool friend and don't realize their with an abusive manipulator

Hell maybe me making this whole post is a "woe is me" manipulation to get people to care

Saying sorry at this point, wouldn't matter

Because I'm toxic, and toxic people can't properly apologize

So now, every time I want to CTB, I need to ask myself "why?"

Is it because I'm truly in pain? Or is it because I'm being "hard on myself" for wanting to escape my circumstances where I've fucked up?

Even if it is the a trauma response, it doesn't matter

My mom is dead and isn't abusing me anymore. Yet I'm still acting like she is alive carrying around these traumatizing behaviors

I'm a fraud

This is now gonna be problematic when dealing with people who actively like me

It's be abusive to reject them, with the mentality of "well I'm a bad person so you shouldn't care about me". That shame/self protection is further abuse

Because the reality is that letting someone care for you even when your shitty is a sign of growth

And it hurts because you know you don't deserve it and you feel guilty

Wanting to hide and kill your self out of "justice to protect people from you" is still abuse. Acting out of guilt is abuse

So if I really want to live, I have to let people love me even when I'm a shitty human being

And I hate that

 

[sadnow11]

Mate you are being very harsh on yourself in my opinion.

I hope you find peace.

 

[jacrispy]

truly toxic people never acknowledge their behavior. the way you're able to recognize where you may need improvement or have shortcomings shows you're self aware. it's very common for people with suicidal thoughts to be harder on themselves than others.

 

[ArchmagePrincess]

I've struggled with this a lot too. When you've been traumatized so much it's true you often behave in ways that hurt others. Sometimes lashing out in bursts of emotions, sometimes manipulating to get your needs met, the abused are a hurt and desperate people. To make matters worse since we've experienced firsthand how painful harmful actions are it's easy to feel disgusted and angry with yourself when you see yourself hurting others yourself. You wouldn't excuse your abuser's actions just because they were feeling lots of their own emotional pain, so why do the same for yourself?

I wish I had a more clear-cut answer to this, but the only thing that's given me any semblance of comfort is reminding myself of the major differences between me and my abusers. While it's easy to point out the similarities in the way we hurt people, there are clear differences in attitude, remorse, and understanding. I would also never go as far as they do in many ways, even at my lowest points, even if I do things I'm not proud of.

I've also noticed being furious with myself over hurting others and not allowing myself kindness or empathy "just because I was abused myself," easily let myself fall into a self-fulfilling prophecy where I assumed I was an abuser so why bother fighting my negative traits? I think if we hold ourselves to a higher standard it's possible to improve upon our actions in ways our abusers never would have the self-reflection to even attempt.

I've seen that when good therapists are presented with a problematic kid who's doing poorly in school, behavioral issues, etc. the most successful thing they do is to give them more expectations. Their parents and teachers and friends alike all assume they're just troublemaking failures so of course they just fill in that role. But the moment the kid is held to a higher standard and told they should succeed at more, they often surprise everyone with just how capable they are.

Don't settle for calling yourself a shitty human being. You can be better than that. You are not a fraud. Even if your mom is dead her abuse left you with a lifetime of hurt that didn't go away when she did, you deserve sympathy this is not just a "woe is me post" this is someone who is hurting and has done a lot of self-reflection on their actions and feels a ton of guilt. You've gone through an enormous amount of pain and suffering, and yet you still have the compassion to worry this intensely about whether or not you're good for others, and how badly you do not want to be toxic. It absolutely sucks to let go of that feeling of guilt and just letting people say you're not awful when you feel like you've done so much wrong, but punishing yourself isn't going to help anyone or anything.

It's incredibly difficult, and I can barely manage it myself, but sometimes you're just not as shitty as you think. Abusers love to drill the idea into your head that you're awful and toxic and worthless, even if you're far from perfect, a lot more of this can be remnants of your mom trying to bring you down than you think. At the risk of using a cheesy platitude; no one's perfect. Every human at some point is going to make mistakes and hurt people, and that doesn't make them abusive or toxic, it's how they act going forward. I think we've all had moments where we complain about a friend behind their back. You aren't trying to escape consequences through manipulation you're just hurt and scared living in this cold and cruel world. You really don't strike me as toxic, just a very hurt abuse victim trying to figure their feelings out, and dealing with the fear we'll be abusers just like our own abusers.

 

[Water-Lily]

I've struggled with this a lot too. When you've been traumatized so much it's true you often behave in ways that hurt others. Sometimes lashing out in bursts of emotions, sometimes manipulating to get your needs met, the abused are a hurt and desperate people. To make matters worse since we've experienced firsthand how painful harmful actions are it's easy to feel disgusted and angry with yourself when you see yourself hurting others yourself. You wouldn't excuse your abuser's actions just because they were feeling lots of their own emotional pain, so why do the same for yourself?

I wish I had a more clear-cut answer to this, but the only thing that's given me any semblance of comfort is reminding myself of the major differences between me and my abusers. While it's easy to point out the similarities in the way we hurt people, there are clear differences in attitude, remorse, and understanding. I would also never go as far as they do in many ways, even at my lowest points, even if I do things I'm not proud of.

I've also noticed being furious with myself over hurting others and not allowing myself kindness or empathy "just because I was abused myself," easily let myself fall into a self-fulfilling prophecy where I assumed I was an abuser so why bother fighting my negative traits? I think if we hold ourselves to a higher standard it's possible to improve upon our actions in ways our abusers never would have the self-reflection to even attempt.

I've seen that when good therapists are presented with a problematic kid who's doing poorly in school, behavioral issues, etc. the most successful thing they do is to give them more expectations. Their parents and teachers and friends alike all assume they're just troublemaking failures so of course they just fill in that role. But the moment the kid is held to a higher standard and told they should succeed at more, they often surprise everyone with just how capable they are.

Don't settle for calling yourself a shitty human being. You can be better than that. You are not a fraud. Even if your mom is dead her abuse left you with a lifetime of hurt that didn't go away when she did, you deserve sympathy this is not just a "woe is me post" this is someone who is hurting and has done a lot of self-reflection on their actions and feels a ton of guilt. You've gone through an enormous amount of pain and suffering, and yet you still have the compassion to worry this intensely about whether or not you're good for others, and how badly you do not want to be toxic. It absolutely sucks to let go of that feeling of guilt and just letting people say you're not awful when you feel like you've done so much wrong, but punishing yourself isn't going to help anyone or anything.

It's incredibly difficult, and I can barely manage it myself, but sometimes you're just not as shitty as you think. Abusers love to drill the idea into your head that you're awful and toxic and worthless, even if you're far from perfect, a lot more of this can be remnants of your mom trying to bring you down than you think. At the risk of using a cheesy platitude; no one's perfect. Every human at some point is going to make mistakes and hurt people, and that doesn't make them abusive or toxic, it's how they act going forward. I think we've all had moments where we complain about a friend behind their back. You aren't trying to escape consequences through manipulation you're just hurt and scared living in this cold and cruel world. You really don't strike me as toxic, just a very hurt abuse victim trying to figure their feelings out, and dealing with the fear we'll be abusers just like our own abusers.

I feel bad for still having compassion for my own abuser (mom). Everything she did was a projection of pain/generational curse that never went broken

 

[ArchmagePrincess]

I feel bad for still having compassion for my own abuser (mom). Everything she did was a projection of pain/generational curse that never went broken

All the more reason to have compassion for yourself. It's that same curse you're in after all. It's honestly amazing how much compassion you have to still hold some for your abuser. All that pops into my head is how I want to tear my abusers limb from limb, regardless of their own pain.

 

[Water-Lily]

All the more reason to have compassion for yourself. It's that same curse you're in after all. It's honestly amazing how much compassion you have to still hold some for your abuser. All that pops into my head is how I want to tear my abusers limb from limb, regardless of their own pain.

Hopefully I can get to your level of anger. I wish had more rage honestly

 

[ArchmagePrincess]

Hopefully I can get to your level of anger. I wish had more rage honestly

Yeah, honestly it took me a while to just allow myself to be angry. I spent so much of my childhood being afraid of anger since my parents' anger was always dangerous and scary to me, so it made me feel like anger was always bad. I eventually learned that anger is the emotion of change. It lets you know; hey, things are bullshit and need to be different. Being angry is okay and healthy when it's justified and when going through trauma and abuse especially from a parent who was supposed to love and protect you, being furious is perfectly fine.

 

[missinginactions]

I'm so sorry you feel like this. You're being way too hard on yourself imo. Some trauma responses are good and keep you safe, others not so good. "And thinking you deserve a pass for that because of your trauma is a sign of victim mentality". I don't understand why 'victim mentality' is so bad. It's completely normal to feel like a victim after traumatic shit going on, you were a victim and in some cases people can continue to be victims even if their abusive situations stop. I would never 'discredit' my abusers for all the trauma they put me through, and they all need to realise that the actions they have done resulted in serious consequences. In my situation my abusers will never face any consequences, at least not legally due to shitty justice system. So what are we supposed to do? After going through all of that shit we're supposed to come out stronger?

 

[ArchmagePrincess]

I'm so sorry you feel like this. You're being way too hard on yourself imo. Some trauma responses are good and keep you safe, others not so good. "And thinking you deserve a pass for that because of your trauma is a sign of victim mentality". I don't understand why 'victim mentality' is so bad. It's completely normal to feel like a victim after traumatic shit going on, you were a victim and in some cases people can continue to be victims even if their abusive situations stop. I would never 'discredit' my abusers for all the trauma they put me through, and they all need to realise that the actions they have done resulted in serious consequences. In my situation my abusers will never face any consequences, at least not legally due to shitty justice system. So what are we supposed to do? After going through all of that shit we're supposed to come out stronger?

Honestly good point imo. There's an unhealthy victim mentality like when an abuser is upset their actions have consequences, but there's also just literally being a victim and dealing with the emotions of that. I think this falls squarely under literally being a victim considering the past abuse by a parent.

 

[BruceWayne]

everyone has negative traits. humans are intrinsically selfish. my suggestion would be to examine the roots of your behaviour and read books to rewire yoir brain.

im currently reading the concise laws of human nature by robert greene and its been a big help

 

[MrDarkness]

I'm haunted by my pass, all the times I lashed out, when I was depressed, I want the memories to go away, I deserve to die for all the poison I spit

 

[Pluto]

People pleasing is a really interesting topic that has been close to home for me my whole life.

At times it has brought me benefit. Sometimes, I've been respected at work because I genuinely care about the feelings of others. I've had promotions for being so conscientious and had people view me as a 'good person' who clearly has 100% positive intentions.

In the past, I had friendships with like-minded others. We did the best for each other and also aspired to being the best possible citizens regarding global issues like environmentalism or poverty. Sometimes, topics like antinatalism came up from this compassionate perspective.

This is where the same light of kindness shows its dark shadow. Often, the subconscious motivation is indirectly getting one's own needs met by making the whole world a kinder place. The more authentic feelings were very dark. Normies were viewed with derision as cruel NPCs. There was a sense of superiority, as well as regularly falling into feelings of contempt for society.

There was often a tendency to externalise personal issues. One friend's difficulties managing his finances (an addiction to spending on 'goodies' while having no proper investments) became a constant leftist rant about lack of financial support from parents or governments cutting services. Another was a conspiracy theorist, purported to be saving the world from evil aliens, when it was her who had a tendency to dissociate to the point where she was completely disingenuous. I suppose for me, the big issue was wanting to be loved, even though I had no authenticity since I put on a 'good person' front to cover up my emotional fragility. It's still happening now.

Hopefully there's a point to all this. I don't have any final answer but I can make a few general points.

* People with 'issues' have often made extraordinary contributions. Nikola Tesla's only girlfriend was a pigeon, yet his contributions to humanity are beyond reproach. Likewise many artists in pain have produced extraordinary works, or activists bringing genuine change. In the bigger picture, things can be strangely perfect in their imperfection.

* What really matters in life is brutal authenticity. Facing our shadows and finding the 'wounded inner child' at the very root of our behaviours. One goes to the darkest possible places, but if you come out of it alive, you will have completed the hero's journey.

* For best practical progress, what is needed is mentoring with a perfect balance of nurturing and pushing. Too much flattery will leave you stagnant in a bubble of self-praise, yet too much criticism will poison you into defeat. The right community or mentor will find this sweet spot. Can you be a bit better than you were yesterday in terms of treating yourself and others with love and acting with integrity? Nothing more can be done so there's little need for inner monologue.