Story I'm 22 and I have never talked with a girl

[MatthewV3]

I'm writtng this because I have no one to complain to, I've got no one to talk to. I would like to tell you a short story of my life.

So, as the title says, I'm 22 years old and basically I've never had a long conversation with a girl. I've never talked to a girl for longer than 5 minutes. Not even on the telephone. Not even on the Internet. Of course I'm talking to my mom, shop assistant etc. but I mean a long lasting conversation with a girl at my age over the years, when I was 10, 15, 20 - I 've never experienced anything like this. I know that this may sound like an absurd, like I'm joking, but I assure you this is 100% truth. This has been driving my crazy for a last few months. But let's start from the beginning.

When I was a child and I went to kindergarten, I wasn't talking to anyone in my class untill 6th grade, so that's about 7 years. I was diagnosed with selective mutism. I only talked to the teacher when we were alone, not with the whole class. I had a few friends (2-3) and I talked to them when I was just with them, but again when we were in full class I was muted. I was just nodding my head for "yes" and "no". Of course I was bullied because of that. Other kids used to laugh at me and blame me when something haappened as I couldn't say anything and defend myself. That was untill I was in 6th grade. I opened myself, I started talking, don't remember how that happened, but still I was extremely shy. I made some more friends as I started talking but they were all guys. I've never had a female friend. So during my education in grade school I talked with girls maybe 3-4 times and of course not longer than 5-10 minutes.

Then was highschool. I remember when the school year started. I was so afraid of the new people, new class that I started to escape from school. This was the first time I went to psychiatrist because of anxiety, social phobia. I couldn't go to class with others, so I had to be home schooled. Therefore during my education in highschool I didn't make any new friends, and didn't talked to anyone except the teachers. Also my old friends from grade school went their own way and I started to loose contact with them. All that time I spent at home studying and in my free time I was just watching movies, TV shows and playing video games and reading books. And so my teen years have gone away.

I recently tried going to university, because I thought this is good way to meet new people. But apparently it doesn't work that way. I've been there for about 4 months and haven't made any friends, haven't talked pretty much to anyone and finally quit because of anxiety, loneliness. I couldn't focus on studying when I saw all these people together and I was always like a shadow, nobody cared that I was there. This was real suicide fuel for me.

Now I'm 22, I have had a few suicidal attempts (hanging), been to psych ward 3 times already. I have no friends, as it's been 7 years since I've last seen my old friends from grade school. I'm watching them on FB, IG, seeing their happy life. They have their own friends, girlfriends, some of them are even engaged. I can't even imagine how it is to talk to a girl. It's like they exist in some kind of alternative Universe, that I don't have access to.

And the funny part is that I was told by my friend that girls used to make a voting who's the most handsome guy in the class and I won. I even recieved a gift cards for Valentines Day from the most attractive girl in the class a few times - that was all in the grade school. Few months ago I uploaded my photo to reddit on r/amiugly and one girl said that "I'm hot af". So apparently I don't look that bad, althought I've never considered myself attracitve. But still I am extremely shy and I don't even know if I could talk to someone at lenght because of years of isolation.

I guess that's it. I just wanted to let it out. Thank you if you've read it all.

 

[Ethereal Knight]

if you have good looks then improving your social skills and self-confidence will do the job (yes there are some other things that women value besides looks, like being rich, tall, high-status etc, but looks are a great part of it).

so how to increase your social skills and self-confidence?
that's a hard question.

maybe working with a very good psychologist or coach could help.

maybe learning tips on the internet and actively practicing them even if it means acute discomfort for you.

try more than one professional, keep trying.

do not resort to drugs like alcohol or cocaine, they do not work long-term and do not solve the problem, only create more problems for you. they can ruin your life, stay away from them.

apps like Happn, Tinder and Patook are controversial and have their obvious downsides, but you can try them to chat with people online and arrange meetings, either to meet friends or date, without having to approach a stranger out of the blue. remember to tell them that you're extremely shy and that you have difficulty socializing, so they don't take it personally.

sometimes increasing your testosterone naturally with things like taking care of your sleep, doing strength training (at the gym or home), good posture, vitamin D, removing junk food and adding high-quality fatty animal products (steak and eggs) could help a little bit, but the main part is still about psychology and mindset.

social isolation and loneliness can be serious threats to health and people literally kill themselves because of it, so I would that these problems very seriously if I were you - and actively try to solve them. find the root-cause and attack it.

P.S.: I see so much loneliness, social isolation and romantic or sexual frustration on this forum and in myself, it's scary, it's so common here (including me, I am an incel myself), I guess this kinda shows how important rich social connections, intimacy, romantic partnerships and sex are for well-being, quality of life and mental health.
society tries to preach individualistic ideologies by telling us that those things are not important and you only need money, power, profit and success.
and more recently, smartphones appeared to make things worse and keep us distant from each other.
sick society.

 

[stoiccactus]

I'm going to offer two pieces of advice because it sounds like you're in a rut here and it's hard to get out.

1) Talk to a therapist and this therapist *must* be a young woman (you should be able to find a therapist around 25 or 26, right out of graduate school). Disclose this to her when you sign up (you can disclose it via email). Do In person therapy, not remote. This therapy will be SUPER FUCKING hard but you'll feel much more confident when you through it. This is literally what therapists are trained to help people with (exposure therapy)
2) Consider signing up to learn a foreign language via one of those exchange programs where you can zoom with someone in another country who wants to learn English. You can learn a new language and have the "cover" of that which may help you feel less anxious because you don't speak her language anyway. You don't have to flirt or be creepy but you can get some practice making small talk.

 

[Superdeterminist]

Just be yourself.

 

[FuneralCry]

I'm sorry that you are suffering. I know that for many people loneliness can be painful. I can imagine that it must have been awful dealing with so much anxiety. I wish you the best.

 

[OldDrummer]

I'm watching them on FB, IG, seeing their happy life. They have their own friends, girlfriends, some of them are even engaged. I can't even imagine how it is to talk to a girl. It's like they exist in some kind of alternative Universe, that I don't have access to.

Dude, people self-edit and publish their 'best life' on social media. It's all BS. Believe me.

 

[Marktheghost]

Have you tried dating sites? You can talk to them in writing that way and get to know girls that way for a while before having to talk to them in person.

 

[Insomniac]

And the funny part is that I was told by my friend that girls used to make a voting who's the most handsome guy in the class and I won. I even recieved a gift cards for Valentines Day from the most attractive girl in the class a few times - that was all in the grade school. Few months ago I uploaded my photo to reddit on r/amiugly and one girl said that "I'm hot af". So apparently I don't look that bad, althought I've never considered myself attracitve. But still I am extremely shy and I don't even know if I could talk to someone at lenght because of years of isolation.

I'm really glad you mentioned that. there are plenty of morons out there who believe that attractive people can't actually be socially rejected or isolated. So many people think that your life is set if you're attractive. This cannot be further from the truth.

Just like you see ugly people thriving and having beautiful partners, you also have the opposite: attractive people rotting away in loneliness and depression.

 

[Al_stargate]

You lack social skills due to not being around people enough. Your parents didn't do you any favors by not socializing you. It takes a while to develop social skills. You're 22, so still very young and immature, trust me. I was also quite immature socially at that age. You might have autism although I highly doubt it. You face a compounding problem. Instead of trying to overcome your social issues early on, they've been swept under the rug, and now it's gotten to this point. You say you're good-looking, getting attention from girls should not be hard. You probably give an off-put vibe due to your social anxieties. If you got shit going on, people will come to you, you won't have to chase anyone. There is no easy fix, you just gonna have to work on your issues. Take baby steps, try to make small talk with someone, try to join a community, club, fitness, whatever. You can socialize just as much as you're comfortable at the time. You will slowly start to enjoy it more and more and will desire it. But avoid situations that will cause you distress, that can set you back and make it worse. There are steps with everything. Say hi, make a small talk about a common interest, feel a person out if you vibe with them, if they're kind and courteous. Take it slow at the beginning to get to know them a bit more. Once you got to know their name and you know them enough to say hi, then you can move further by adding them on social media, making more small talk, ask if they like to do activity together, like working at the gym, ask for advice about something that person knows, or work-related, grab a meal together, or whatever that feels comfortable and non-intrusive. It's the same with women just a bit more awkward but you can get over it with practice. If the feelings are mutual, friendship or relationship is gonna happen. Don't give out creepy vibe like you want something, have things going on in your life, be open and willing to help, kind, smart and shit is gonna fall in place. But like anything, it takes practice.

 

[HappyForever?]

If you are attractive you shouldn't have a severe problem. Just put yourself out there and try to talk to girls just like how you talk to guys. You will catch up in no time.

 

[Superdeterminist]

You lack social skills due to not being around people enough. Your parents didn't do you any favors by not socializing you. It takes a while to develop social skills. You're 22, so still very young and immature, trust me. I was also quite immature socially at that age. You might have autism although I highly doubt it. You face a compounding problem. Instead of trying to overcome your social issues early on, they've been swept under the rug, and now it's gotten to this point. You say you're good-looking, getting attention from girls should not be hard. You probably give an off-put vibe due to your social anxieties. If you got shit going on, people will come to you, you won't have to chase anyone. There is no easy fix, you just gonna have to work on your issues. Take baby steps, try to make small talk with someone, try to join a community, club, fitness, whatever. You can socialize just as much as you're comfortable at the time. You will slowly start to enjoy it more and more and will desire it. But avoid situations that will cause you distress, that can set you back and make it worse. There are steps with everything. Say hi, make a small talk about a common interest, feel a person out if you vibe with them, if they're kind and courteous. Take it slow at the beginning to get to know them a bit more. Once you got to know their name and you know them enough to say hi, then you can move further by adding them on social media, making more small talk, ask if they like to do activity together, like working at the gym, ask for advice about something that person knows, or work-related, grab a meal together, or whatever that feels comfortable and non-intrusive. It's the same with women just a bit more awkward but you can get over it with practice. If the feelings are mutual, friendship or relationship is gonna happen. Don't give out creepy vibe like you want something, have things going on in your life, be open and willing to help, kind, smart and shit is gonna fall in place. But like anything, it takes practice.

He went to school, that's already a LOT of socialising. And you come off as incredibly disrespectful when you say immaturity is a part of this. You doubt autism, but you don't actually know how likely it is. You say getting attention shouldn't be hard, but it evidently has been for him. How much more bullshit do you want to type out? I think you should hold off on giving advice because your ideas are just bad and probably harmful.

 

[y0dha]

I think someone gave you a could advice up there, try to find a young female psychologist and explain to her your problem, you'll get used to talk to a girl in a safe non judging environment. Then try online dating maybe, go slowly, tell the girl you're shy, don't worry some girls like shy guys, i know it cause i'm a shy guy and i was with girls that told me they prefered shy guy cause it's cute.

 

[Al_stargate]

He went to school, that's already a LOT of socialising. And you come off as incredibly disrespectful when you say immaturity is a part of this. You doubt autism, but you don't actually know how likely it is. You say getting attention shouldn't be hard, but it evidently has been for him. How much more bullshit do you want to type out? I think you should hold off on giving advice because your ideas are just bad and probably harmful.

I'm just trying to give honest advice. Not sure why but I misread that he was homeschooled. I've read the full post but I can't focus much these days so I made a mistake. I think my advice is good, I had social anxieties and was immature in my social attempts at that age so I'm speaking from my experience what helped me. Not sure how you interpreted it. Kid clearly has severe issues with social anxieties from early on. I do not know if he has autism, aspergers, or whatever but I wouldn't assume those things as they can provide an excuse. Best way forward for him is to try, and advice I offered is solid IMO. Not sure how making small talk is harmful. Any advice and encouragement is good, if talking to a specialist might work then he should try it. Hey OP, I was an awkward kid and it got better. As you age and mature these things became easier. Just don't despair, it's not permanent. There is no shame in rejection, life moves on. Try to be positive in your outlook and people will likely gravitate around you more.

 

[Superdeterminist]

I'm just trying to give honest advice. Not sure why but I misread that he was homeschooled. I've read the full post but I can't focus much these days so I made a mistake. I think my advice is good, I had social anxieties and was immature in my social attempts at that age so I'm speaking from my experience what helped me. Not sure how you interpreted it. Kid clearly has severe issues with social anxieties from early on. I do not know if he has autism, aspergers, or whatever but I wouldn't assume those things as they can provide an excuse. Best way forward for him is to try, and advice I offered is solid IMO. Not sure how making small talk is harmful. Any advice and encouragement is good, if talking to a specialist might work then he should try it. Hey OP, I was an awkward kid and it got better. As you age and mature these things became easier. Just don't despair, it's not permanent. There is no shame in rejection, life moves on. Try to be positive in your outlook and people will likely gravitate around you more.

No, any advice isn't good advice. There is such a thing as harmful advice.

We don't know if he has autism or whatever other relevant mental condition, that doesn't mean it's ok to assume he doesn't have one...It's not about making an excuse, do you think that brain pathology isn't real or what?

I would urge you not to make forecasts about anyone, especially not about others. Just because it became easier for you, doesn't mean it will for him. Obviously that's what he wants, but it's like saying "don't worry you'll get rich one day". False hope is a terrible thing. You don't make it happen by believing it will. If I believe I will win the lottery, that doesn't mean I'm going to win it. Let's be sensible here. WISH for it to improve, but don't make assurances that it in fact will, when you don't know.

Again, you're chalking this issue up to maturity and I think that's a profoundly ignorant and insulting thing to do. Do you think there aren't 30, 40 year-olds who struggle with this? Because let me tell you, there are, as sad as that may be.

 

[Al_stargate]

Again, you're chalking this issue up to maturity and I think that's a profoundly ignorant and insulting thing to do.

To social immaturity, not immaturity as a person. He's still pretty young and I said 'don't despair, it's not permanent'. I obviously don't know the kid at all. I'm not a professional on brain pathology or psychology, so how can I know if he has some clinical issue. He seems eloquent enough to write his post. I'm giving advice from my perspective, that's all I can do. He probably heard it already and I get it's patronizing to make forecasts and tell someone what's their problem and how they should feel. Which I wasn't.

 

[Superdeterminist]

To social immaturity, not immaturity as a person. He's still pretty young and I said 'don't despair, it's not permanent'. I obviously don't know the kid at all. I'm not a professional on brain pathology or psychology, so how can I know if he has some clinical issue. He seems eloquent enough to write his post. I'm giving advice from my perspective, that's all I can do. He probably heard it already and I get it's patronizing to make forecasts and tell someone what's their problem and how they should feel. Which I wasn't.

You don't know if it's permanent or not. What you said is another way of saying "it's going to improve" when you don't actually know if it will. I don't know what you mean by "social immaturity". That phrase seems to just be making a mockery of the issue. It's better described as a struggle or difficulty.

 

[Al_stargate]

You don't know if it's permanent or not. What you said is another way of saying "it's going to improve" when you don't actually know if it will. I don't know what you mean by "social immaturity". That phrase seems to just be making a mockery of the issue. It's better described as a struggle or difficulty.

I think you are making an assumption that he has some permanent issue. That's why you say: 'It's better described as a struggle or difficulty'. I'm giving advice from my perspective, like I said that is the most I can do. I was socially immature or awkward at 22, and a lot of people still struggle at that age.

 

[VoidDesirer22]

You're 22, so still very young and immature, trust me

No I don't trust you.
This is the exact same shit pro-lifers pull on people in their twenties ctb'ing, like they are too immature to understand the amazing life ahead of them.

I rolled my eyes heavily when I read this shit. 22 does not automatically place you in a box. I am 25 and dealt with that kind of shit all the time right through teens and early twenties, and most of my thought patterns have remained the same.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

Well, hold up here. Selective mutism is a big deal. If you were diagnosed with it as a kid, it's unlikely to have spontaneously resolved itself by now.

No offense to some of these suggestions but with SM, some of this stuff is running before you can walk.

Have you tried to get help for it specifically? That's what needs zeroing in on, I think. Looks don't mean anything if you can't communicate properly.

 

[Superdeterminist]

I think you are making an assumption that he has some permanent issue. That's why you say: 'It's better described as a struggle or difficulty'. I'm giving advice from my perspective, like I said that is the most I can do. I was socially immature or awkward at 22, and a lot of people still struggle at that age.

No, I'm not making any assumptions. I plainly said "don't know" several times. That means we don't know, it doesn't mean I'm assuming anything. My description of it as a struggle or difficulty in no way suggests it is permanent. I don't know how you're inferring that.

 

[VoidDesirer22]

Well, hold up here. Selective mutism is a big deal. If you were diagnosed with it as a kid, it's unlikely to have spontaneously resolved itself by now.

No offense to some of these suggestions but with something SM, some of this stuff is running before you can walk.

Have you tried to get help for it specifically? That's what needs zeroing in on, I think. Looks don't mean anything if you can't communicate properly.

Right?
I think jumping to dating apps as others have suggested is way too fast paced. I even get nervous talking to girls on Tinder and that isn't the same with irl talking.

SM effects would compound over time, too.

A therapist might be able to provide specific treatment in a controlled environment for SM. I have never been to therapy, but can't appointments be booked via email?

 

[Al_stargate]

No I don't trust you.

When you gonna be 30 (if), you gonna think of your 22-year-old self in a very different way, ok. You gonna see your hastiness and more immature mindset. You're not in your 30s yet so you can't know. Though patterns can remain similar but overall demeanor changes, ok. I'm not saying 20-year-olds are immature but I'm saying 30-year-olds are more mature. It's a difference. I'm not saying mental issues go away with age but I'm saying mindset will change.

No, I'm not making any assumptions. I plainly said "don't know" several times. That means we don't know, it doesn't mean I'm assuming anything. My description of it as a struggle or difficulty in no way suggests it is permanent. I don't know how you're inferring that.

I also don't know. I might came across as preachy in my first post but I was just giving advice from my experiences. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[VoidDesirer22]

When you gonna be 30 (if), you gonna think of your 22-year-old self in a very different way, ok. You gonna see your hastiness and more immature mindset. You're not in your 30s yet so you can't know. Though patterns can remain similar but overall demeanor changes, ok. I'm not saying 20-year-olds are immature but I'm saying 30-year-olds are more mature. It's a difference. I'm not saying mental issues go away with age but I'm saying mindset will change.

You're over simplifying the HUGE variety across human beings.

A 22 year old can easily be more mature than a 32 year old. If you do not grasp that, then we have found the root of the problem here.

Obviously there are some lines that must be drawn developmentally, but I am clearly drawing the paramater at an adult to adult comparison. I will not go into teenager to adult comparison, because that has a much lower likelihood of higher maturity due to major hormonal and brain developments.

Thank you for that patronizing "(if)", as you persist in this hypothetical world where crossing the 30 age boundary is crossing enlightenment. It really depends on life experience and productivity spent in those years.

Of course if we isolate myself and compare from today until 5 years, I might view my maturity differently. But the subject of this discussion is about grouping ALL people in their twenties as immature, as a baseline.

 

[Al_stargate]

A 22 year old can easily be more mature than a 32 year old.

Not in a behavioral way. I agree 22 can be a better person in every aspect but more mature in terms of emotional intelligence, I don't think so. That's my opinion.

Thank you for that patronizing "(if)"

I wasn't being patronizing, honestly. I wrote -when you gonna be 30- but then I thought, you are suicidal after all so that's why I put (if). Shit and illness can happen at any age, I don't see myself better then you because I'm 33 and you 25. We're in a shitty position both regardless of the age. I happened to have 32 years of okey existence and you a bit less, both due to outside factors.

 

[VoidDesirer22]

That's my opinion

There are people who have to develop emotionally very quickly to handle stressful life circumstances from a young age. Research shows that the hormones associated with prolonged episodes of stress can actually age the brain faster. I have studied this at university.

Just as we are all entitled to opinions, we are also entitled to be wrong if it does not harm others. Your opinion doesn't cause harm as you are not in a position of meaningful power in the medical industry, I assume.

I'm not a professional on brain pathology or psychology, so how can I know if he has some clinical issue. H

Exhibit A.

wasn't being patronizing, honestly. I wrote -when you gonna be 30- but then I thought, you are suicidal after all so that's why I put (if).

Sorry if I misinterpreted that then. It was very blunt how you tacked it on to the end of your sentence.

 

[Al_stargate]

There are people who have to develop emotionally very quickly to handle stressful life circumstances from a young age. Research shows that the hormones associated with prolonged episodes of stress can actually age the brain faster. I have studied this at university.

I find it hard to believe. I think the human body has some sort of time mechanism, just like it has imbedded circadian rhythm system inside every cell. When a person reaches a certain age, less testosterone is produced and other hormones are released like you said. Certain circumstances can make it look like person is getting 'older faster', but I think when the stressor is removed this bodily system comes back into equilibrium and natural time, so to speak, is again established. I believe there are evolutionary reasons why people have to 'act their age' so to speak.

I really didn't mean anything with that (if) but I understand now how it might look that way.

 

[Cathy Ames]

Hey there, OP! First of all, I want to congratulate you on "somehow" recovering from the selective mutism. YOU did that. That's great!

Secondly, I want to agree with some of the previous people who (basically) said that your problem with having conversations might be improved via skill building. But I also want to mention this...

I recently tried going to university, because I thought this is good way to meet new people. But apparently it doesn't work that way. I've been there for about 4 months and haven't made any friends, haven't talked pretty much to anyone and finally quit because of anxiety, loneliness. I couldn't focus on studying when I saw all these people together and I was always like a shadow, nobody cared that I was there. This was real suicide fuel for me.

So this could be a great description of me under very many circumstances. I kind of think a LOT of people experience this. I tell you this because it might maybe help you to know that you are NOT alone in feeling this way. I feel this same way, and yet, before the pandemic turned me into a freak, I could manage to have conversations with people, and there were many people who saw me as friendly and sociable (although shy). To be honest, I found it freaking exhausting and maybe not always worth it, but I could do it. It didn't come naturally to me, but I learned it. I think it is possible that you can learn it, too.

I'm not sure what would be the best way to do it, but I think it is possible.

 

[Circles]

I have no advice per se but trust me when I say this the longer you wait the more it's going to get worse. I'm 27 and I can't talk to people let alone women and I regret not learning social skills when I was younger and being active. If you actually care about it then I'd maybe suggest a therapist as others have said or maybe volunteering to help get out of your shell more. But be sure to take things slow cause if you get overwhelmed you might end up quitting altogether like I did.