Discussion If you do not accept help, you will be despised by society

[Versailles]

It is curious that people are alarmed when someone else has suicidal wishes and far from wanting to talk to them and really listen to them, they limit themselves to finding a way to make them stop thinking that way, in the event that our wishes have to do with existential crisis, absurdism or total detachment from this life, the other person will not want to know about it, he will limit himself to ignoring us and telling us to seek help immediately, possibly because he feels that we are a danger to the mental and emotional stability of the other person, That makes me think that I should live with my mouth sealed between the Normies.

And I speak for many here, and this has already been spoken by @-Persephone- before, the fact that we are treated like garbage or excised from society for simply not having accepted help because in some cases, we did not want to be helped or we did not have the kind of help that we wanted, in the worst case, some have received the help but it has not worked for them. Many think that the circumstances are the same with all people but do not see beyond the issue. This does not mean that we despise those who try to get us to seek help in any way, but that they are people who simply care about you, but simply do not know how to deal with this situation because you have never prepared for it, we assume that our lives and lives of the others will have a good course without thinking about the possible difficulties that may arise.

Life is a highway, big and immense, where each car travels in its own lane, if you simply leave the lane or do not want to continue walking on the highway, others will ask you not to go off the road and keep your course, if you simply refuse, you will possibly be despised.

 

[SleepDealer]

Not wanting help is the one thing no one in my life has ever been able to understand. I couldn't possibly agree more. I just wish I knew what to say to people who don't understand, because those who do understand are too rare.

 

[aBLEACHyindividual]

All the "help" they will give is essentially kidnapping you and bringing you to a jail with padded walls to keep you there indefinitely while they drug you against your will.

 

[FuneralCry]

People who haven't been suicidal themselves will never be able to comprehend what it is like. Many of these people automatically dismiss being suicidal as irrational and their automatic reaction is to tell the person to get help. Sometimes there is nothing that can help, many situations are hopeless. Being suicidal can be a rational reaction to somebody deciding their life is not worth living. In my case, I do not want any help. Nothing anybody could say or do would ever help me.

 

[toforigivelife]

It is curious that people are alarmed when someone else has suicidal wishes and far from wanting to talk to them and really listen to them, they limit themselves to finding a way to make them stop thinking that way, in the event that our wishes have to do with existential crisis, absurdism or total detachment from this life, the other person will not want to know about it, he will limit himself to ignoring us and telling us to seek help immediately, possibly because he feels that we are a danger to the mental and emotional stability of the other person, That makes me think that I should live with my mouth sealed between the Normies.

And I speak for many here, and this has already been spoken by @-Persephone- before, the fact that we are treated like garbage or excised from society for simply not having accepted help because in some cases, we did not want to be helped or we did not have the kind of help that we wanted, in the worst case, some have received the help but it has not worked for them. Many think that the circumstances are the same with all people but do not see beyond the issue. This does not mean that we despise those who try to get us to seek help in any way, but that they are people who simply care about you, but simply do not know how to deal with this situation because you have never prepared for it, we assume that our lives and lives of the others will have a good course without thinking about the possible difficulties that may arise.

Life is a highway, big and immense, where each car travels in its own lane, if you simply leave the lane or do not want to continue walking on the highway, others will ask you not to go off the road and keep your course, if you simply refuse, you will possibly be despised.

The just listening part. The just...listening.

I don't know. Those who "just can't handle" the suicidal do have compassion and understanding for those who are eating, drugging, smoking and drinking themselves to death.

These same people are able to handle those conditions much better.

They handle those whose life force is being drained by an "acceptable" physical illness or physical injury but they "just don't know what do" with someone whose life force is being drained by a mental illness or condition.

Sometimes just listening can result in actually understanding people who are suicidal. Listening might result in helping or supporting that person and might lead to helping that person change the circumstances that are contributing to their suicidal state.

Helping and supporting with a few things that seem simple to them but terrify and completely overwhelm the person who is suicidal. We're not asking for anything that costs money, listening and support can be done free of charge.

As long as the person whose in crisis respects that those around them also have stressors and worries going on in their lives and boundaries are respected, we're not asking those around us to do anything too scary or that requires back-breaking labor folks.

And I won't even venture into the all too scary scenario of offering a suicidal person a temporary place to stay, somewhere that they feel welcome and safe and where they might - just might - be able to enjoy a sense of understanding and stability until they can figure things out.

In some cases just an ear to listen, help with a few things, some care and understanding. In some cases a change in circumstances can make all the difference to suicidal people.

And I don't know that humanity will ever reach the point where they can accept that there are cases where clinical depression or other forms of mental illness cannot be cured no matter how many happy pills you shove down someone's throat, no matter how many walks in the fresh air those affected take or how much they indulge in "positive thinking".

Maybe there will a magic cure for those who are suicidal and have been suicidal for most of their lives but I don't see a time when people will accept an unrelenting mental illness the same way they see other fatal illnesses and offer the the suicidal person who is dying the same level of support, compassion, understanding, respect and kindness that would offer to others whose condition is also terminal.

But, in these severe cases, being willing to listen and learn could save the person who is in a hopeless situation and those who will survive both sides a lot of grief and anguish.

 

[enau]

personally, I wanted help. Help from a decent world. Not an industrial and violent (yea kidnaping..)psychiatric help when you have to reopen your wounds and close them on a timed appointment, at the best . I wanted a world where we dont end up more destroyed by not having the basic social tools, because your childhood was a mess.just decent people, where you can learn how to be kind to each other, and all the things that i didnt knew well.I have issue with this idea of (psychoolologic)help, when it encourage people in ordinary life to be inconsiderate and egoist asshole, beacuse thhere is specialist for this, and that, decent human being becoming a medecine

 

[Anxieyote]

possibly because he feels that we are a danger to the mental and emotional stability of the other person

I think a lot of it has to do with self-protection. Listening to our perspective may force someone to grapple with their own mortality. The concept is frightening, because other people also deal with bad things and un-winnable situations. They haven't allowed themselves to explore the possibility that if the bad things outweigh the good things in a person's life, CTB is a legitimate option on the table—and if they've never experienced that fully for themselves, it's an even easier idea to dismiss.

So a complete dismissal from them, or a referral to the suicide hotline may be a way of protecting themselves too. Death is still a frightening subject to many, and they're going to avoid thinking about it as long as they have a chance of living a relatively problem-free life.

It reminds me of my Mom, and her fear of scary movies. She ignores them, and pretends they don't exist. If I even bring up the title of a scary movie, or start describing the plot, she'll beg me to stop and say "I don't need that in my life." People have a similar reaction to suicide. I suspect that the ones who are most afraid to discuss it feel like if they think about it enough, they could come up with ways of justifying ending their own lives too.

 

[stilldreaming]

Maybe there will a magic cure for those who are suicidal and have been suicidal for most of their lives but I don't see a time when people will accept an unrelenting mental illness the same way they see other fatal illnesses and offer the the suicidal person who is dying the same level of support, compassion, understanding, respect and kindness that would offer to others whose condition is also terminal.

oh I just tried to create my first thread today, it's not approved yet as I hadn't posted before. I called it "Just think of me as terminally ill", I'm sure you understand why...

I think it's human nature to react negatively to anyone / anything that makes us feel bad or uncomfortable. Especially if it's purposefully done. Someone getting terminal cancer, their cancer isn't seen as a 'choice' (even if they were smokers / obese or whatever...saw a study, obesity now causes more cancer cases in the US now than smoking).

"Don't rain on my parade", right? If someone announces they're going to exit, well, those clouds are uncomfortable for the listener. Which is why I believe we need to focus on increasing empathy in society, so that they realize our choice to exit is not about them, and they feel a bit of compassion for what we're going through.

I'm certain I'm preaching to the choir here ofc. I certainly don't think to see this in the US in my lifetime, though I will just be (not to so quietly) envious of those lucky peeps in places like is it Belgium and the Netherlands, where they're advanced enough to understand this sort of thing.

 

[littlelungs]

All the "help" they will give is essentially kidnapping you and bringing you to a jail with padded walls to keep you there indefinitely while they drug you against your will.

I can unfortunately vouch for this. As far as mental health crises are concerned, the "help" I got consisted of being taken to the psych ward and being searched, infantilized and drugged out of my mind on antipsychotics and benzos (which I wasn't allowed to refuse, despite the fact that antipsychotics actually induced psychosis and were part of the reason I was there in the first place). I couldn't even pee without someone there. I was so out of it that I barely remember the hospital stay, I don't even remember the interview I had with the hospital psychiatrist before I left, and I still have no idea how or when I got back home. Then a few days later when I met with my main psychiatrist at the time, he gave me grief for ending up in the hospital because it made him look bad. Maybe don't prescribe antipsychotics to someone who isn't psychotic and already has a history of not tolerating them, you absolute wiener.

This kind of thing happened more than once. All of the medical, psychiatric and social help that I'd already been getting or trying to get for YEARS at that point was a whole other gong show. When it comes to mental health in particular, nobody listens unless you're in an immediate crisis, and when they DO listen, that's the best they can do. Nice.

Honestly, I'd love to get more help if there was something I hadn't tried yet and I actually thought I had a chance, but I'm tired in all aspects of the word, I'm in constant pain and extremely physically ill without any cure in sight, any amount of physical and mental strain makes me worse, and I've tried literally everything that has been accessible to me (and then some). Even if one or two issues are taken away or made somewhat more manageable, there's still the rest of my issues that are unbearable in and of themselves. Maybe there will be a cure or better help in the future, but at this point I've just had enough of being dicked around by the system and I'm not waiting forever, and just based on my history, it seems that I'm apparently too damaged to respond to treatment in any significant way, anyway. With that said, I think I can objectively say that this approach – treating someone who's suffering like a dumbass and a criminal – is not working.

While I generally encourage people to get help if they're able to do so (which I know isn't always the case for a number of reasons), I can understand why some people just flat-out don't want to deal with a system that has so many problems, when they've already got enough of their own problems going on. As someone who's been through the wringer in the healthcare system, I get it, and I really, truly feel for these people.

 

[Sprite_Geist]

...But if you ask for help you can also be despised, too, because it is viewed by some as being "bothersome".

 

[Anxieyote]

...But if you ask for help you can also be despised, too, because it is viewed by some as being "bothersome".

That's the saddest part. Some would prefer to hear about you in the obituaries before actually hearing you out…

Less of an inconvenience, because it'll only take a minute to read the cliff-notes version of your life.

 

[BridgeJumper]

I am beyond help. No ammount of psychiatric help can fix that my inner ears are broken, and all the mistreatment from abusive psychiatrists who chose to condemn me and treat me like shit because I have bpd justcaused me to develop trauma so bad that I will NEVER again ask for help unless they drag me there by my hair. My only crime was having a highly stigmatized mental illness. I will never forget being made to sleep in my own vomit, told to stop sticking fingers down my throat, faking disorders and manipulating hospital staff. I will never forget being told to 'Jump again, this time at night, and kill myself already' after being fished out of the river, stomach pumpings while fully conscious, sewing slit wrists without anesthesia and telling me its a punishment for wanting attention, tying me to the bed injected with haldol and writhing on my bed because of an allergic reaction and being told that 'this was not caused by the medication'. Constant gaslighting. Nothing I ever say is believed, I found way more in regards to therapy by reading resources and asking other suicidals than in my emcounters with professionals. I will never ask for help again.

 

[Anxieyote]

I am beyond help. No ammount of psychiatric help can fix that my inner ears are broken, and all the mistreatment from abusive psychiatrists who chose to condemn me and treat me like shit because I have bpd justcaused me to develop trauma so bad that I will NEVER again ask for help unless they drag me there by my hair. My only crime was having a highly stigmatized mental illness. I will never forget being made to sleep in my own vomit, told to stop sticking fingers down my throat, faking disorders and manipulating hospital staff. I will never forget being told to 'Jump again, this time at night, and kill myself already' after being fished out of the river, stomach pumpings while fully conscious, sewing slit wrists without anesthesia and telling me its a punishment for wanting attention, tying me to the bed injected with haldol and writhing on my bed because of an allergic reaction and being told that 'this was not caused by the medication'. Constant gaslighting. Nothing I ever say is believed, I found way more in regards to therapy by reading resources and asking other suicidals than in my emcounters with professionals. I will never ask for help again.

This post is certifiable proof that we are a burden to them;—the system. A suicidal person has no place in society, and we are treated like annoyances at every step of the way.

It was eye-opening when my own therapist began getting impatient with me. He'd check his watch during our appointments, and his tone began to shift towards the sentiment, "You're still not feeling better yet?" and then he started changing the subject to things he liked to talk about, like his iPhone and his new girlfriend. It's like he was saying indirectly, "I've offered you all the help I can give. If that didn't fix you, you're fucked."

At the very least, sharing your experience has spared some of us from the traumatic pain of being treated as a suicide patient in a hospital. I'm fortunate to have never ended up in that position, but after reading what you have said, I'm going to make sure my CTB method is 100% lethal.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

Judah, you hit the nail on the head. If someone does not want to interact with health services, they've basically dug their own grave when it comes to interpersonal niceties- social suicide as opposed to actual suicide, I suppose.

Never mind the reasons why someone would prefer not to engage with beurocratic healthcare systems, let's just assume that individual is bonkers and irrational. You can't be reasoned with if you don't want to change and "accept you need help" after all.

You touched on a lot of the reasons why this line of thinking is faulty. The assumption that every situation is the exact same (when it comes to the fate of suicidal people or anyone who has a condition or malady that is not palatable to nor understood by most) has poisoned every culture's response to suicide.

In the present moment, there exists only a one size fits all cookie cutter template, an insidious framework that is being employed by any and every source of "help."

Step 1. Encourage people to "reach out." When one successfully manages to find a trustworthy confidant, rather than lending a listening ear and some empathy, this confidant should encourage the struggling man to seek psychiatric "care" regardless of their history with the industry. Don't like it? Then you don't want to get better, obviously.

Step 2. Start an SSRI prescription alongside a course of CBT, because all desire for death is caused by minor short term depression and cognitive distortions, right?

Step 3. Cycle through a gamut of drugs that are hardly distinct from a pharmacodynamic standpoint, ignoring all side effects or lack of efficacy. Perhaps take a referal to another therapist, if you haven't already been getting the eye rolls and annoyed stares from the benevolent professionals.

Step 4. Realize that your treatment plan thus far is not working. In a frenzied and desperate attempt, reach out to people once more, only to be met with skepticism and disbelief when you inform them that yoga, mindfulness, and serotonin tampering drugs have not cured all your ails.

Step 5. Fall deeper into despair as everyone abandons you and labels you as treatment resistant and "unwilling to get better." Your panicked fists will clutch at anything thrown your way, even potent antipsychotics, psychiatric hospitalisations, and riskier cocktails, because you haven't tried everything, and surely something must work. Without progress, no one will validate your struggle or take it seriously.

Step 6. You are now back at square 1, yet everyone will insist you are not making a good faith effort and you want to remain stubborn and ill. Profit.

Normies can't seem to get it through their thick skulls why a person would not want to dangle their hand back out in front of the very beast that bit them in the first place. Having blind faith in authority figures and institutions helps people sleep at night.

When you challenge the notion that a therapist or doctor possess all the answers- a magic key unlocking the door to a satisfied and painless existence-it makes people very upset. Because when we lose faith in those who are meant to be wise sages and pillars of evidence based practice, it is a crushing blow to not only our worldview, but our trust in others as well.

Many are unwilling to swallow their pride and admit there are numerous issues which have no quick fixes, cures, or even the most banal interventions possible. It is why some people fall for scams like Naturopathic healing crystals and prayer chants, they are desperate for solutions.

Determinism and acceptance of an unpredictable and unreliable world are not favorable to the human psyche. Thus it is easier to place the onus on those who are suffering, pinning them as the problem, rather than acknowledging the corrupt, confusing, cruel, random, and merciless nature of our world.

They would rather pretend that people who cannot be helped do not exist rather than face the music and recognise not every problem has a solution.

 

[OrcWitch]

I hate psychiatric torture prisons. They fuck your mind into the dirt and deprive you of any sort of comfort, so that you are so desperate to go home that you resort to lying and wag your tail until they release you.