If we could see ourselves as others see us, we would vanish on the spot

[sserafim]

I recently heard this quote: "If we could see ourselves as others see us, we would vanish on the spot." What do you think it means?

 

[movinout17]

I think it means that what we believe ourselves to be right now would change so instantly that our old self image would cease to be, once we see how others see us.

 

[yeahokbuddyboy]

That's really interesting, I think what movinout17 said is pretty insightful.

Like all we really know of ourselves is our own perception. Despite what we think or say we think about how others view us, our own perception of ourselves will probably always be the most important. Humans are relational but also self-centered, whether we like it or not.

To truly see ourselves through someone else's eyes would basically destroy our own perception of self, for better or worse. I don't think a lot of people can really accurately "guess" what someone else thinks.

I think about how I'm seen by others a lot. Especially in relation to the topic of this forum. But it's also hard for me to think about because I do still have a few people that I think love me, or at least people that would be affected by my suicide. It's scary when I feel so low and garbage about myself that I would consider ending my life because I still haven't/might never be able know what people really think of me and my life.

 

[sserafim]

That's really interesting, I think what movinout17 said is pretty insightful.

Like all we really know of ourselves is our own perception. Despite what we think or say we think about how others view us, our own perception of ourselves will probably always be the most important. Humans are relational but also self-centered, whether we like it or not.

To truly see ourselves through someone else's eyes would basically destroy our own perception of self, for better or worse. I don't think a lot of people can really accurately "guess" what someone else thinks.

I think about how I'm seen by others a lot. Especially in relation to the topic of this forum. But it's also hard for me to think about because I do still have a few people that I think love me, or at least people that would be affected by my suicide. It's scary when I feel so low and garbage about myself that I would consider ending my life because I still haven't/might never be able know what people really think of me and my life.

Hmm interesting, I would think that it means that no one really thinks about you. I think this quote kind of relates to Sartre's "Hell is other people". Other people are hell because we think about how we're perceived by them and how we look in other peoples' eyes.

 

[EternalShore]

I recently heard this quote: "If we could see ourselves as others see us, we would vanish on the spot." What do you think it means?

I think it's because people are too self-centered to see anyone else~ Especially when you're completely isolated as most people are on here, no one would even know to think about them!

 

[Abandoned Character]

Research in neuroscience shows that individuals diagnosed with clinical depression possess a high density of self-referential thoughts. In other words, we think about ourselves a lot. When really, there is little rationality to thinking that our versions of ourselves is the "correct" one.

Everyone I interact with all have different versions of "me" categorized within their own mind. Who am I to say that my self-image holds precedence over the image of me others have within their mind? Who "I" am, really, is constantly in flux, and thus I do not exist in the way I think I do. Our senses of self are but tools used to work our way through this mess of a reality.

I like your quote because it reminds me that "I" do not exist in the concrete way that may sound so convincing. In the eyes of the many, I am but random noise.

 

[WAITING TO DIE]

Maybe it means most people are too focused on themselves to truly take notice of others.
For instance walking through a city centre full of people you are basically invisible to others because they are too focused on other things.
Maybe it means that we have certain behaviours or mannerisms that we are not aware of that irritate others.
I suffer from aspergers and I tend to be perceived as somewhat " unusual " .
I was never aware of this until I was diagnosed.

 

[tiger b]

I recently heard this quote: "If we could see ourselves as others see us, we would vanish on the spot." What do you think it means?

It sounds like it's replacing one misperception for another misperception, to me.

 

[yeahokbuddyboy]

Hmm interesting, I would think that it means that no one really thinks about you. I think this quote kind of relates to Sartre's "Hell is other people". Other people are hell because we think about how we're perceived by them and how we look in other peoples' eyes.

Just wanted to say my uni philosophy class literally covered Sartre this morning what are the odds

 

[sserafim]

It sounds like it's replacing one misperception for another misperception, to me.

Wdym? Do you think that anyone knows your true self then?

I think it's because people are too self-centered to see anyone else~ Especially when you're completely isolated as most people are on here, no one would even know to think about them!

True

 

[R_N]

I think it means that what we believe ourselves to be right now would change so instantly that our old self image would cease to be, once we see how others see us.

This is what I think as well.

But I don't think it is even that important like anything else isn't. Especially for a hermit like I am now.

 

[sserafim]

This is what I think as well.

But I don't think it is even that important like anything else isn't. Especially for a hermit like I am now.

Yeah same, it's interesting to think about though.

I think it means that what we believe ourselves to be right now would change so instantly that our old self image would cease to be, once we see how others see us.

True. Do you think that our self-image/perception of ourselves is the "correct"/true one though, or is how other people see us more accurate? I also think that no one knows your true self, just the self that you show to them.

 

[tiger b]

Wdym? Do you think that anyone knows your true self then?

I'll go this way, on the level that I intended, but I kinda wanted to leave it open to interpretation, as what's the big deal in what I think anyway!

"If we could see ourselves as others see us, we would vanish on the spot."

The self perception is misperception.

The others' perception is misperception.

'We' being there is a misperception.

Vanishing would then, logically, be the final misperception.

Now, there might be a degree of accuracy to the misperceptions, depending on the people involved. The picture might be hazy or drawn with crayons, marred with projection. The reason for this could only be the filter of ego, as I said before somewhere, it's a pernicious wee beastie.

A misperception though is not a reality. Only what is real truly exists. Like a cartoon cat is a representation and no more than that, no matter how close or gorgeous that representation is.

You find someone with no ego, or the ego in check, I'll say that person could know someone's true self with a great or total accuracy. Because they can see their own first. (Me, well, clouds come and go.) I'd venture that person would have no purpose taking part in the misperceptions and vanish.

But the vanishing never took place, because being there in the first place would be a...

a) mishperposhon
b) misperception
c) shut up already

Maybe this answer is in the spirit of J-P, (and the question you asked). Maybe he'd tell me to just go to Hell!

 

[DarkRange55]

From the perspective of others I am part of the world, but when I observe the world from my perspective I am nowhere to be found.

To observe is to create perspective. I can never cease to be the point of origin from my perspective. I observe that which is not myself.

I am most reminded of Hume and his discussion of the self being interpreted as a single entity, but not necessarily so in actuality. (we may actually be -- and from scientific evidence, most likely are -- a conglomeration of multiple fractured subconscious perspectives artificially combined to be perceived by the over-conscious as a single one.*) Hume also points out that the outside world as being nothing certain except perceived stimuli; we perceive an outside world, but our only access is through these stimuli and reactions being perceived. We do not actually have any kind of direct access to an external world, merely a conduit through which information flows. The information could, in fact come from anywhere -- our own imaginations, a computer program, a deity, a shared dream, a reliving of memories -- with just as much likelihood as what we claim is true -- an actual outside world.

Cogito ergo sum. I think, therefore I am. This is Descartes famous line.

"I think therefore you are" either means that the world is the only way we can validate our own existence. (after all, who would know they exist if they could not observe themselves, or be observed by the world, either literally, or else by interacting with something through touch, smell, sight, or sound. If we could not, we would only know... nothing. No senses, no time, no space, nothing....)

It could also mean that the world only exists in our consciousness; it is all a dream we are imagining and creating. The most common synonym to this is the Chinese saying: "But he didn't know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi."

It is also true that you cannot observe the observer. Like a puppy chasing its tail, you can strain as much as you want, but despite twisting and turning around, you cannot see yourself either mentally or physically. Yes, you can see "yourself" in a mirror, but that is again, a false image. It is a shadow cast by light, and it is imperfect, both from the reflective nature (reversal) but also from the light traveling through distorting air, hitting the mirror with it's own blemishes and distortions, and then being received imperfectly and transformed into electric signals imperfectly and interpreted by a mind imperfectly. You are not actually seeing yourself after all. This is merely the visual physical side of things, it becomes even more complicated when you are looking deeper into what it means to "observer the observer." In any case, it cannot be done, if only for the logical impossibility of containing a complete visualization of yourself within yourself.

There is also the three "you's." The you that you think you are. The you that you want to be. And the you that you actually are. You will never truly know the last one, the closest you can get is by asking people who are honest that are close to you.