Discussion If suicidal people are considered mentally ill and irrational then why are they still held responsible in every aspect of their life?

[diazepam23]

You often hear (especially on Reddit) that assisted suicide should never be extended to the mentally ill because they are almost always irrational and incapable of making that decision for themselves. If that is true, then why is it that it never applies to other aspects of a mentally ill persons life?

E.g committing a crime or even paying a bill. Most people would say they should take responsibility because they're grown ups despite their mental illness. Society doesn't take away agency in all those cases but does when it comes to assisted suicide for mental illness.

 

[Passenger4224]

Because many of us aren't actually 'mentally ill'. It's just their way of dehumanizing us for their own gain.

 

[limenlux]

You often hear (especially on Reddit) that assisted suicide should never be extended to the mentally ill because they are almost always irrational and incapable of making that decision for themselves. If that is true, then why is it that it never applies to other aspects of a mentally ill persons life?

E.g committing a crime or even paying a bill. Most people would say they should take responsibility because they're grown ups despite their mental illness. Society doesn't take away agency in all those cases but does when it comes to assisted suicide for mental illness.

I wouldn't assume many people have even thought it through as far as you did. The topic just makes them feel icky and they're frantically grasping for the ripcords on their parachutes before they smash into a place where an uncomfortable conversation might occur.

 

[passthisnote]

they're just spewing what they've been told their whole lives they don't really think beyond just "suicide is bad"

 

[EmployedHikikomori]

Society is slow to progress on what's truly ethical and moral. I mean in many countries abortion is still being debated. All but a few developed countries have done away with the death penalty. And a handful of nations still run on religious doctrine to run their government.

I believe it all relates back to traditions and religious doctrine, at least here in the West.

 

[bl33ding_heart]

I don't at all agree with the idea that mentally ill people shouldn't have access to assisted suicide. But being considered mentally ill doesn't mean all and any adult responsibilities and decisions should be taken from you. Because at the end of the day you're still a grown adult. But life altering decisions, like having a child or literally ending your life. Because things like this aren't something you can just turn back on and decide you don't want anymore.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

It's the ultimate catch 22. If you're suicidal you lose medicolegal capacity for bodily autonomy but are still deemed competent enough to make decisions like:

Work, even if the tasks at work directly impact other people
Have a driving licence/operate a vehicle
Take out bank loans
Keep up with bills and tax obligations
Open a bank account
Trade stocks and financial investments
Gamble
Sell all your belongings
Take out expensive contracts like a new phone plan
Travel
Do extreme sports
Eat healthily
Buy alcohol or cigarettes
Get pregnant
Adopt a pet
Maintain normal and respectful communications with other people and not cause them stress
Have relationships

etc etc...

These are all things that people who truly lack insightful decisions making capacity, like someone with severe dementia or in the midst of a psychotic episode cannot do in most cases. So it just goes to show how flimsy the justification is here for denying people the right to make specific decisions about their body.

Specifically, I think the worst aspect of this is that in many countries once you lose this right, you can be forced to take medications which carry risk of increased suicidality as a potential side effect. So not only have you lost your right to choose to take certain medications or not, but you're being forced to take medication which may worsen the issue it's being prescribed for and given no say or input in this decision. It's always been paradoxical and bizarre to me.

 

[Canto XIII]

At face value, it's actually very simple. A person's mental health exists in a spectrum between a (probably inexistent) perfecty sound mind and being completely unaware of oneself and one's surroundings. It's not really a straight, one-dimensional spectrum either, because our mind is complex and its different parts can be more or less affected (for example a psycopath can possess high intellectual skills, a retarded person can be perfectly aware of social clues etc.), but I'm digressing. The fact is, people like the typical user of this forum are considered mentally ill because of their will to die, and most often other reasons, but still enough in control of their mind and actions to be hold accountable for their decisions. I've written about my opinions on this stuff in another thread too (https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...ation-to-be-evident-of-mental-illness.249959/), now I'm too lazy to repeat what I said here.

That being said, yes, the fact they aren't considered in control enough to decide about their ultimate fate is essentially incoherent, and a product of moral prejudices.

 

[iguazo falls]

because its easier than talking about corruption and thinking about practical systems and programs to help both mentally ill and struggling non mentally ill individuals. the best they can do in my country is "are you ok day" which everyone treats as a joke, and also isn't all that condusive to an actual support plan. 'are you ok day" does not transcend societal hierarchy, rules of closeness, nor shame it just makes sure theres extra yellow mugs with the slogan in the work kitchen. its not that we are not responsible, but pondering why financial status, chronic illness, or trauma increases the likelyhood of suicide is somehow harder than just assuming the suicidal person is irrational and crazy.

 

[diazepam23]

I don't at all agree with the idea that mentally ill people shouldn't have access to assisted suicide. But being considered mentally ill doesn't mean all and any adult responsibilities and decisions should be taken from you. Because at the end of the day you're still a grown adult. But life altering decisions, like having a child or literally ending your life. Because things like this aren't something you can just turn back on and decide you don't want anymore.

Interesting. Can you explain what you mean by you're still grown adult?

 

[dreamofnofuture]

You often hear (especially on Reddit) that assisted suicide should never be extended to the mentally ill because they are almost always irrational and incapable of making that decision for themselves. If that is true, then why is it that it never applies to other aspects of a mentally ill persons life?

E.g committing a crime or even paying a bill. Most people would say they should take responsibility because they're grown ups despite their mental illness. Society doesn't take away agency in all those cases but does when it comes to assisted suicide for mental illness.

They believe suicidality is a "moment" to overcome bc for them it is.

They don't believe it's literally in every part of your life.

True suicidality is incomprehensible for the non-suicidal (including depressed ppl).