Discussion I would probably be pro life if I wasn’t suicidal

[Tysiiaczeq]

This might be controversial. But Imagine we were all lucky and healthy enough to say "suicide isn't the answer". I think a lot of pro lifers have some kinda saviour complex. Despite how annoying they are, I think pro lifers genuinely believe they're helping. But they completely lack experience, empathy, and resources. they're just people fortunate enough to not know what this hell feels like, they have these logical step by step routes of "fixing" our problems - go to therapy, get on meds, go to work, start going out more. This idealised image of battling mental health issues, as if doing everything "right" always ends in a healthy, healed individual. pro lifers have this high energy and fantasy that I am honestly, genuinely jealous of. How lucky must they be to not understand us.
they seem to have this simple idea that suicidal folk are only depressed or sad people. Life just doesn't work this way. The truth is - We have done everything we can to survive, but it's just not worth it anymore. This isn't a way to live. They just dont seem to understand that. Yet, If i had this healthy, positive outlook on the world I would probably want others to live on and try to help them too. They have this pluck about them, thinking that they can save everyone and everything. I wish I was as delusional as pro lifers. They seem so much happier than us, they have a level of faith I could never commit to. Being pro life just shows me you are luckier than most people. They are completely unrealistic, semi educated on the subject, and forceful. Yet I wish I was still blind and inexperienced enough to say "suicide isn't the answer" like everyone in society. That sentence is just accepted as a fact. As long as society portrays death as a negative thing, pro lifers will believe they are saving us. Hell, if we were all happy go lucky individuals, wouldn't we want to fix someone else's suffering and hope they don't quit before its too late? truth is we are not going into pro life spaces, they are intercepting our 'safe spaces' bc they have a saviour complex, while we have just accepted life for what it is and they cant deal with that. the people in power made the narrative we are broken, meant to be fixed, and that somehow, someway another flawed human being could possibly turn us around. Theres always going to be pro lifers if the narrative is that in 100% cases death = bad. I mean, even terminally ill people, with excruciating pain and basically no life aren't allowed to make this decision for themselves. Sometimes we are two sides of the same coin, pro lifers are just ex depressed folk who fixed their life around and they now expect us to live up to their standards. They don't understand we are not them. we are ruined to the point we will never be like them, ever. I cant tell if its a bad thing. Delusional people are just so much happier, why couldn't I be stupid and blind too.

 

[TAW122]

I don't think you're assessment and claim is wrong, it makes sense. Also, thanks for sharing and while I personally don't wish to be blind and deluded (well I couldn't due to how logical I am by nature) about reality since that would be harmful to me in the end, I could see why you would wish that. Nevertheless, I think the main issue isn't just the fact that prolifers are delusional, blind to logic and reality, but because they FORCE that perspective and value(s) onto people who don't align or agree with them, which is a clear violation of another's human rights and bodily autonomy. Indeed, they do have a savior complex and that is a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I do get where you are coming from. In the rare times I have actually felt happiness in life- I have wanted all the people around me to feel the same. I think that's only natural really. I think it would be sadistic to actually want people to feel as bad as us.

Still- I suppose the difference is- we know what it's like to feel so shit. That sometimes- most times maybe- other people simply can't 'snap us out of it'- we can't do it ourselves after all. I suppose maybe the difference with pro choicers is that- while we may WANT other people to feel better- we know ourselves it isn't something that always works- no matter how much 'help' you get. Plus- it's never something that should be forced to the degree that it is. I think it was Stephen Fry who said- when it's raining- it's raining- there's no point in pretending it isn't.

 

[Unending]

Often times it seems the only difference between pro-life and pro-choice mentalities is an experience. We can know that pain feels unpleasant but never even truly know the meaning of what pain is until we are bound by it. Empathy definitely does come from lived experience, rather than from birth.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

That suicide is justifiable in some cases is more reasonable and measured a view than saying that it is never justifiable ever. I think that's as ridiculous as saying death is always preferable to life, or should be for everyone. Sure, it's an unsavory action, to put it lightly, but so is justified homicide (like in self-defence). It's defensible to take someone else's life in self-interest but not defensible to take your own in your self-interest?

 

[FuneralCry]

Nobody should be pro life in this world, it disgusts me the fact that some people are against suicide. If people want to stay here then that is fine for them, but it's incredibly problematic to force that belief onto others when they cannot experience life the same way. It's harmful to refuse to see suicide as being an option, suicide should always be viewed as being an option in this hellish world and if people cannot accept that, then they are severely delusional and there is no value in thinking such a way. I hate the mindset of people who try and dismiss all of the suffering that exists as acting in such a way will only lead to more torment being experienced. Pro lifers only ever make this world a worse place with how they refuse to accept others choices.

 

[Tysiiaczeq]

I don't think you're assessment and claim is wrong, it makes sense. Also, thanks for sharing and while I personally don't wish to be blind and deluded (well I couldn't due to how logical I am by nature) about reality since that would be harmful to me in the end, I could see why you would wish that. Nevertheless, I think the main issue isn't just the fact that prolifers are delusional, blind to logic and reality, but because they FORCE that perspective and value(s) onto people who don't align or agree with them, which is a clear violation of another's human rights and bodily autonomy. Indeed, they do have a savior complex and that is a problem that needs to be addressed.

thats understandable! Personally being aware of everything and unable to do anything about it kills me. Being logical took me out of 100s of messes, but being self aware made it hurt that much more. It always seems like the happiest people are the most delusional ones, incl pro lifers. I think this quote explains well what I meant -"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. […] The same applies when you are stupid."
For example, Ever since a young age my issue was understanding too much too soon. I caught onto issues way too early, I understood how unfair the world can be too soon. I think understanding things made me into this negative and bitter person. This shaped my worldview to the point I couldnt even enjoy the good things when they did come along. Its like my brain was wired to find holes in everything. I think a lot of people who had to grow up too fast feel this way, losing ur childhood just makes you see the world in a dark way. Maybe if I was clueless, I wouldn't overthink everything so much.
You are absolutely right! Yes at least we keep to ourselves, we have spaces (like this forum) for like minded people and we are not interested in talking with them. While they intercept our 'private' areas where we rant about the most secret things in our life. They will pretend to be our friend just to change our mind (so, manipulate) to what they believe is the norm. They join these forums and purposely attack our way of thinking, despite not being able to understand it. I know they think they're doing good, but jesus. Aggressively trying to change someones mind is never going to help them! I just wish pro lifers actually took legitimate steps to help others (those who want it, ofc). Supporting organisations, volunteering, voting in a way that makes physical and mental health services more accessible, literally whatever, u name it! All of that is 100% more effective than forcing people online to change their mind. I just think they're people with good intentions who are, themselves, completely lost and end up doing the wrong thing. Hell, I know for a fact how easy it is being a terrible person while wholeheartedly believing In doing the right thing.

 

[SexyIncél]

All my close friends now are pro-choice, without being suicidal. Pro-lifers are just dumb. If you don't want someone to die, just talk with them, see if there's some way you can help

 

[Tysiiaczeq]

I do get where you are coming from. In the rare times I have actually felt happiness in life- I have wanted all the people around me to feel the same. I think that's only natural really. I think it would be sadistic to actually want people to feel as bad as us.

Still- I suppose the difference is- we know what it's like to feel so shit. That sometimes- most times maybe- other people simply can't 'snap us out of it'- we can't do it ourselves after all. I suppose maybe the difference with pro choicers is that- while we may WANT other people to feel better- we know ourselves it isn't something that always works- no matter how much 'help' you get. Plus- it's never something that should be forced to the degree that it is. I think it was Stephen Fry who said- when it's raining- it's raining- there's no point in pretending it isn't.

Often times it seems the only difference between pro-life and pro-choice mentalities is an experience. We can know that pain feels unpleasant but never even truly know the meaning of what pain is until we are bound by it. Empathy definitely does come from lived experience, rather than from birth.

I think thats spot on! Its all about experience. I believe they have struggled with mental health themselves and successfully gotten past it, but now they try to force their success onto others. As if it's possible for us. When we know its just not! Yet they think thats our 'diseased brains talking' lol. Its like all of this is being blamed on an illness, when its just what we want, because we want it and we shouldn't have to explain ourselves on the "why". It's literally our life! They cant grasp the fact even when we do feel 'happy', cheerful, when we laugh - we would still rather be dead. It just makes me mad that all of this could be avoided if suicide/death wasn't seen as inherently bad. People with good intentions but uneducated, inexperienced. I feel like this is one of those things that " two sides fight with each other over technicalities, while the real culprit watches". (So society and government). Death is always bad and assisted suicide is seen like an Orwell piece by everyone in the mainstream media. I feel like they got interested in the subject because they wanted to help, in the first place. But got confused and took it to a whole diff level of bad and made it worse for everyone.

All my close friends now are pro-choice, without being suicidal. Pro-lifers are just dumb. If you don't want someone to die, just talk with them, see if there's some way you can help

Wow I'm kinda jealous. I'm glad you found a nice circle that supports and actually understands you! That is rare. Did you have to talk with them about the subject, or did they come to the conclusion themselves? Pro choice is rare in the "real world". Everyone 'outside' seems to be terrified of death, dying and anything to do with it.
I can't even begin to mutter the word suicide to people around me without it automatically being classed as 'bad, nope, wrong, never'.
If we could talk to someone about suicide openly, we would be able to explain ourselves better to others. Therefore allow others and us to understand our emotions better. I have always had "suicide ideation" ever since a young age. talking to professionals and mentioning suicide is just a way to get into trouble. Being suicidal has been a part of my life for as long as I remember, so why should I hide it. I know for example, that my family automatically nopes out because they are scared of losing me. They cannot fathom that I am just so unhappy and uninterested in life Id rather be gone, and that it has nothing to do with them, or even my mood. People take suicide extremely personally, I've realised. I kinda get it, but I also dont. We cry and mourn people who die (cause we miss them, and what they offered) but those are usually bad circumstances, accidents, illness etc. i understand that they would miss me, but this is what i REALLY want. Shouldn't that be enough for them to understand? Shouldn't they put aside the fact they would miss me, and focus on the fact living is actually killing me? Just some thoughts. Sorry i just keep ranting here!

 

[SilentSadness]

You are right that there is nothing inherently wrong with being pro-life, it's just an ill-founded opinion. When opinions turn into action is the problem, the way they restrict access to methods is disgusting.

 

[HopelessSoul]

It is very easy for them to be happy and full of energy when they are perfectly healthy both physically and mentally, throw in there depression or some other mental illness or some permanent physical condition, I bet most of them wouldnt last a month in our shoes, let alone a year or more, they have never been exposed to intense suffering so their suicidal threshold must be extremely low compared to ours, which makes it all the more ironic and infuriating when they start spewing out their usual empty platitudes.​

 

[SexyIncél]

Wow I'm kinda jealous. I'm glad you found a nice circle that supports and actually understands you! That is rare. Did you have to talk with them about the subject, or did they come to the conclusion themselves?

I think most people are trained to think instinctively. Not think things through curiously. So they become NPCs

We all do this to a large extent, but some try to spend a bit more time acting conscious. To find them, it helps to put yourself in contexts where you're more likely to meet alienated but curious people

Shouldn't they put aside the fact they would miss me, and focus on the fact living is actually killing me? Just some thoughts. Sorry i just keep ranting here!

This is the place to rant about such things!

You'd think that someone saying "I love you" would try to think from your perspective and help you do what you want. Alas