N

noname223

Angelic
Aug 18, 2020
4,971
For many parents that is the goal when they are raising children. For some it is the justification why they have decided for that. However I think most of them are not aware that the likelihood of this development might be overestimated.

My mom wanted that I have a good life. This was the reason why she systematically abused me for more than a decade. I think she was especially obsessed that I will have more money and go to college. Well she accomplished the opposite I gonna kill myself because my conscioussness is a living hell and don't want to be dependent on welfare. So the notion is kind of naive. But for many reasons. There are so many dangerous things that can happen. And they happen to all kind of people.

Accidents, severe illnesses, diseases, car-crashs, sexual violence etc. I am stunned I met many women who told me they once were confronted with sexual violence. I think the dark figure must be pretty high.

I think it is kind of playing Russian roulette to procreate. For example due to the climate catastrophe and the threat of wars. In some countries I think the term playing Russian roulette even underestimates the risk of procreating. So many people on this world live in severe poverty, no perspectives for significant change, no health care, violence, crime rates, war, a culture of domestic violence etc. Maybe one could say the goal of having a better life is still possible. Personally I think new technologies and science could increase life quality a lot. But I think many new people will still go through hell in such countries.

Noone guarantees that the wish the children will have a better life becomes true. Personally (many here disagreed on that) I think the life quality could improve also in first world countries. Due to advanced technologies, increase in productivity -> less work hours, more spending on social services from states etc.
There are some contra arguments. The biggest for me is climate change. I think this has the potential to fuck the world, especially the ones who are already poor. In western countries demographics becomes a huge problem. In Europe we will have to spend more money on military (and less on social services) because the US does not want to play world police for us aynmore. Moreover there was the peace dividend for some decades. With new hot wars that seems to be over.

It is gambling in my point of view. Life contains many risks. By the way my mom told me as a child never to procreate. She told me that takes way too much energy and I should rather care for my own well-being. Honestly this was an extremely ignorant statement of her. She did way worse things relatively speaking but this is such a bulllshit argument. She portrays herself as altruistic because she gave me life as a gift, But concludes well life would be better without children. And she tells that her own children I was fucking 10 or so.. it is pretty hypocrtical. I should not be as altruistic as her and act instead selfishly. However these are only the implications I think my mom is too dull to think about those and the impact on a fucking child. However as I said compared to the shit my mom did to me this was pretty harmless.

There is a saying in German I try to translate it. The opposite of having done something well is not having done something bad but having had well intentions about doing it. Sorry it is pretty hard to translate that properly. In German it is sounds way better.
 
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jodes2

jodes2

Hello people ❤️
Aug 28, 2022
7,737
That German phrase doesn't ring true. Good intentions are meaningless if it doesn't work out. As the English phrase goes, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

I think people who have children and expect it to go well are delusional. Bringing up a child well requires a lot of knowledge, great temperament and patience, and an awful lot of money and hard work. Not just til they're 18 but for the rest of your life. And even then it can still fail spectacularly. The only thing you can expect is they'll probably live a somewhat meager existence. Average. Nothing special. Plenty of struggles. Plenty of pain. Some ups, many downs. We just procreate to keep the cycle going. That's all we're programmed to do, it's all we're really capable of. Having children is done off a spark of optimism and selfishness. Hormones doing their job. There's no rational soul searching process involved, or people wouldn't do it. Good intentions pave the road to hell.
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
37,105
I believe that nobody should procreate, to bring life into this world is something that is so shameful and unnecessary. There is no need and no benefit to bring life into this hellish world and to create unnecessary suffering. Existing is certainly something harmful due to all of the risks involved and the fact that chance determines everything. It's cruel to bring life here where there is just no limit as to how much we can potentially be tortured and life is just something so useless anyway.

Procreation could never be justified, it's just something that is so incredibly selfish and unfair. Existence is a burden, in no way could it ever be a "gift" being forced into this hellish world. And anyway all that life is, is just an meaningless cycle of unnecessary suffering that is just an unfortunate consequence of evolution, so therefore choosing to continue this certainly is tragic. Life itself really is the problem.
 
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leopard_gec

leopard_gec

Kara Kara Kara no Kara
Dec 26, 2022
32
"I want that my children have a better life than me" basically every human in existence ever. It's just a never ending cycle of suffering.
I believe that although things get better (with advancement in technology and so on) things equely get worse.
Things basically stay the same.

My mom believed that the best way for me to not suffer is to make me strong by making me suffer lol. Physical work was my only value as a person, I've even been denied showering because I didn't work enough (I was feverishly sick)
Am I today a strong work oriented person? Nope, quite the opposite I can't stand suffering anymore, I'm not even ashamed to admit it. Fuck life, fuck working hard, fuck suffering for no reason.
 
S

suisuiforum

Experienced
Jul 4, 2021
237
No matter how hard some parents try, I don't think it's possible to give your child a "perfect life" because even if you manage to do this by objective measures (not counting the freak accidents that could happen), it doesn't mean that your child will end up happy. To each their own, but I just don't like the idea of bringing life into the world since there's such a high chance that they will experience suffering that far outweighs the "benefits" of life.
 
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Kattt

Kattt

Ancient of Mu-Mu
May 18, 2021
796
The only things that matter in terms of my children is that they are capable of living independently and that they attain some happiness.
I made a conscious decision to avoid projecting my wishes on them. To remember they are not an extension of me, but rather an independent human being, with the ability to decide what's right for them using their own minds.
My daughter found she can't have children which initially disappointed me. I had hoped she would get the chance to experience the unique, all consuming and unconditional love that comes when holding your newborn.
But now I am relieved because she will have a better quality of life, my defective genes will not cause further suffering and honestly... this world is no place to be bringing new life into.
 
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Darkover

Darkover

Angelic
Jul 29, 2021
4,431
want them to have a better life than i did the answer is simple don't have any
 
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F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
8,830
want them to have a better life than i did the answer is simple don't have any
EXACTLY- if you're REALLY that concerned about THEM and THEIR lives- why on earth would you take the risk? I guess because maybe they have had more enjoyable lives than we have. (Maybe.) They maybe can't (naively) conceive of it going this wrong...
 
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Source Energy

Source Energy

I want to be where people areN'T...
Jan 23, 2023
705
The only things that matter in terms of my children is that they are capable of living independently and that they attain some happiness.
I made a conscious decision to avoid projecting my wishes on them. To remember they are not an extension of me, but rather an independent human being, with the ability to decide what's right for them using their own minds.
My daughter found she can't have children which initially disappointed me. I had hoped she would get the chance to experience the unique, all consuming and unconditional love that comes when holding your newborn.
But now I am relieved because she will have a better quality of life, my defective genes will not cause further suffering and honestly... this world is no place to be bringing new life into.
your daughter is lucky. Imagine having a kid, only to see them crying and asking you why did you bring them into this hell. No matter how much love you give them, you cannot ensure that others will not bully them, abuse them, hurt them physically or emotionally, that they will not experience unrequited love, illnesses, betrayals, depression until the want to ctb.
 
immrw

immrw

Member
Jan 22, 2023
82
My mom believed that the best way for me to not suffer is to make me strong by making me suffer lol.
Exactly. "I'm going to traumatize you before the world does" and all that got me was 0 emotional regulation and suicidal thoughts beginning at 7
 
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Kattt

Kattt

Ancient of Mu-Mu
May 18, 2021
796
your daughter is lucky. Imagine having a kid, only to see them crying and asking you why did you bring them into this hell. No matter how much love you give them, you cannot ensure that others will not bully them, abuse them, hurt them physically or emotionally, that they will not experience unrequited love, illnesses, betrayals, depression until the want to ctb.
Bullies are nothing new. I completely agree that it is a terrible thing to have to watch your child suffer but not be able to do anything about it. The key is to ensure they understand the motivation for such behaviour, have sufficient self confidence and feel secure enough with their circumstances to deal with it in an effective manner. It's not just children that experience bullying. It's prolific within the workplace.
My kids were unschooled. Maybe I was lucky, but they ended up ok.
I can't be sure exactly how she feels about not being able to have kids, as it's more than a decision and often has much deeper consequences. All I can do is assure her of my thoughts and be available should she want. All we can do is try to equip them with the tools they will need in life. Her mistakes are her own to make.
They were born when I was still a teenager in the 90s. Probably not my best choice but the world hasn't changed for the better. The poor kids who will have to contend with this Trainwreck.
 
Source Energy

Source Energy

I want to be where people areN'T...
Jan 23, 2023
705
Of course bullies are nothing new. They always existed, and will always exist. I had the best parents. But I ended up victim of bullying from a young age. It caused me to close down and never liked to be among others. Growing up, the pattern repeated into workplaces, the bullies now grown-ss people. It is more subtle, but it is just as cruel. I for one, don't want the smallest risk that my potential child will become victim to such monsters, or that will become a monster itself. You never know- once you start on this mine field called "life" - what can hit you.
 
N

noname223

Angelic
Aug 18, 2020
4,971
That German phrase doesn't ring true. Good intentions are meaningless if it doesn't work out. As the English phrase goes, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

I think people who have children and expect it to go well are delusional. Bringing up a child well requires a lot of knowledge, great temperament and patience, and an awful lot of money and hard work. Not just til they're 18 but for the rest of your life. And even then it can still fail spectacularly. The only thing you can expect is they'll probably live a somewhat meager existence. Average. Nothing special. Plenty of struggles. Plenty of pain. Some ups, many downs. We just procreate to keep the cycle going. That's all we're programmed to do, it's all we're really capable of. Having children is done off a spark of optimism and selfishness. Hormones doing their job. There's no rational soul searching process involved, or people wouldn't do it. Good intentions pave the road to hell.
Maybe my translation was bad. It exactly says that well-intentions are the opposite of making something in a good way. So it is very similar to the English sentence you mentioned:
the road to hell is paved with good intentions".
 
jodes2

jodes2

Hello people ❤️
Aug 28, 2022
7,737
Maybe my translation was bad. It exactly says that well-intentions are the opposite of making something in a good way. So it is very similar to the English sentence you mentioned:
Ah I see! That makes sense then! ❤️
 

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