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apple2myeye!

apple2myeye!

it/its
Jun 3, 2022
74
i hate it when stupid fuckers try to "own" suicidal people by saying theyre just "lazy" or wanna "give up". what's wrong with that? i think it's perfectly acceptable to throw in the towel against completely insurmountable odds. i've always thought that. if that makes me "lazy" or whatever the fuck then so be it.
 
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AloneInCollege

AloneInCollege

The one and only
Mar 7, 2022
167
Yeah I agree. I have (or maybe had, idk i haven't spoken to this person in a while) a friend who was telling me about a friend of theirs who killed themselves. My friend said that they "gave up", they didn't intend it maliciously of course. But, to me it's like, sometimes it's OK to give up. You can't try 100% at everything, you have to know when to quit.
 
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Superdeterminist

Superdeterminist

Enlightened
Apr 5, 2020
1,876
It's pathetic how over-glorified 'persistence' is. Sometimes you can get what you want after (who knows how many) attempts, but never is it a guarantee. And people want to believe a million attempts to reach X goal is something worthwhile, rather than an enormous over-investment of time and energy. If you ask me, it's an insult to my dignity expecting me to exhaust myself making so many attempts merely to satisfy a fleeting desire, which will no doubt be replaced by a new one in no time.
 
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london3

london3

Banned Scammer
May 5, 2022
584
It is your life and you should decide how you live it, no one else

The outside world that says you are lazy or have given up have no idea what they are talking about as they have never had suicidal thoughts and are very naïve and lack knowledge.

That is why forums such as this are great as we can openly talk about suicide with people that genuinely do have a good idea and can truly empathise with us.

I would just ignore people and just do what you want as sometimes talking about this subject with outsiders feels like talking to a brick wall
 
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Superdeterminist

Superdeterminist

Enlightened
Apr 5, 2020
1,876
Another thing: I can't stand it when people say "if you wanted it that badly you'd do (X thing)"

No bitch, you don't get to tell me how badly I want something. Only I know how badly I want anything. And doing X thing is not a guarantee to get it, yet you're talking like it is. It's just the little flawed narrative you've constructed in your head about how the world works, simple and convenient because you need the world to be that way, but shocker - it isn't.
 
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S

Snatsbats

Student
Jan 9, 2021
182
For most people life isnt that hard, they just go with the flow and things will turn out fine. They will complete college get a job, go in and out of relationships. They have pretty nice lives. But if you are unable to have your basic needs met life is just not living, it is surviving
 
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VerbalWinter

VerbalWinter

manga elitist
Dec 25, 2021
25
i hate it when stupid fuckers try to "own" suicidal people by saying theyre just "lazy" or wanna "give up". what's wrong with that? i think it's perfectly acceptable to throw in the towel against completely insurmountable odds. i've always thought that. if that makes me "lazy" or whatever the fuck then so be it.
The same people saying suicidal people gave up, probably would give up themselves if placed in a similar situation as them
 
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Feeding Pigeons

Feeding Pigeons

Warlock
Aug 5, 2021
776
Maybe people don't want to have an honest conversation about suicide because it forces them to make some grim realizations. The layers of bullshit when it comes to discussing suicide is staggering. Every hot button issue has recitable arguments that you'll always hear, but with suicide theres no end to them. It's like people don't know how to express what they actually feel, or can't feel at all, so they default to a popular view.

I've come to find out that discussions are worthless because so few people actually have thoughts of their own.
 
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Cosmic dust

Cosmic dust

Among the stars
Feb 28, 2022
151
For most people life isnt that hard, they just go with the flow and things will turn out fine. They will complete college get a job, go in and out of relationships. They have pretty nice lives. But if you are unable to have your basic needs met life is just not living, it is surviving
And most of these people have absolutely no idea what it is to be at the bottom of the barrel. Some of them never had to suffer that much, never had to look at things from other perspectives that are not from their privileged position.

Besides kindergarten level pre-conceived notions of suicide, I have seen, for example, adult people blaming a poor victim of abuse for her "wrong" decisions, dismissing other people mental ilness and issues, for being too lazy to seek treatment properly or for not living in the "right" way. Its just worse with suicide, because its some sort of taboo and people don't speak enough about it, its also condemned by some of the most popular religions, without discussion.

It seems that pain can brings us to a new level of sensivity, gives us a new perspective of life and teachs us something about being human and about respect.

Lets be honest, if everything went right in your life, from the start, do you think you would be able to come here, look at all these poeple saying they want kill themselves for all the different reasons and you would still be able to look at it in the same way?
 
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alliebear

alliebear

The sun also sets
Jun 13, 2022
45
Same. This world is exhausting. Its draining to get up in the morning everyday. People keep pushing us to stay but they never actually change when theyre the root of the problem
 
KuriGohan&Kamehameha

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

想死不能 - 想活不能
Nov 23, 2020
1,801
Everyone has their limit of what they can take, and a stranger peering in has no idea how much effort that individual has exhausted to get to this point. Accusations of laziness are meant to disparage and demonise suicidal people, creating a false narrative that if only that person had "tried harder and gotten the help they need" they would be cured in the swish of a magic wand.

Unwillingness to admit that there is no help out there for many issues lies at the crux of the just world fallacy. People want to believe that there is no sense of determinism or luck involved when calculating the trajectory of one's life. Is is far more soothing, satisfying, and comforting to think that we have control over everything and our decisions will always have a tangible impact on our life outcomes.

It would be as simple as acknowledging that a treatment for x condition hasn't been found yet, or that there are issues with our cultural and socioeconomic expectations that need to be addressed lest more people are driven to despair and suicide, but most people cannot do this. They cannot put themselves in the driver's seat when it comes to the road map of your life experiences, your mind, every trial and tribulation you've went through to reach this point. It is unfathomable to them that this one specific problem may not have a solution.

Others have already mentioned that there is a deep seated cultural lust for persistence and perseverance, despite a positive outcome never being guaranteed. I notice often in scientific literature that "lack of resilience" is often noted as the etiology of what clinicians and researchers label as antisocial or "depressive" behaviour. Language like that shows a distinct lack of insight into the amount of bullshit someone has to endure before they reach the point of no return. Hardly any of the people purporting such a bold claim will have their fortitude tested in the cruel ways that their lab rats and patients are subjected to.

Onlookers whose only interaction with suicidality boils down to social media campaigns and cheesy charity slogans have no idea how nonexistent "help" actually is in this world. They have a clear pipeline in their head of, this person is depressed! They need SSRIs and therapy, and when those don't work, you have to keep repeating these failed interventions over and over again in an act of irrational insanity, because eventually you will find that golden ticket.

Nevermind if you aren't depressed, we are going to shove you in this box and if you insist it isn't so, you will be labeled a quitter who doesn't want to put in the work or is in denial of what your problem is. There's an abundance of circular reasoning where others purport that you must be not seeking assistance of you're suicidal, and if you're still suicidal afterwards, you must not have sought enough assistance. It is utterly ridiculous.

Even if you do exhaust all options, they will repeat these same accusations like a trained parrot. Oh, you tried every medication out there and you still have PTSD? You tried over a dozen therapists, who were useless at best and mocked you for being autistic and having years of trauma due to abuse? You have physical conditions which aren't understood by modern medicine and can hastily be labeled as somatoform? You have no family and no one to rely on? Well sweatie, you just didn't try hard enough! You're so young, it'll work out!

I have actually still had these things said to me even though I have went through the wringer of failed "help" which leaves lasting damage. No one actually wants to try and understand what would improve someone's quality of life, or have respect for a decision that they are forced to make due to a logical thought process of wanting to escape insurmountable problems. No, they want to proselytise about moral failure/lack of willpower and persistence, while claiming that only professionals can understand your pain, professionals who are usually just as clueless as they are.

It really is an exercise of futility to try and find understanding with people who are unwilling to see suicidal individuals as anything but a downtrodden, unmotivated, caricature. Fuck it, there's nothing but more pain to be had when dealing with sentiment like that.
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
42,486
To me suicide could never be wrong. None of us asked for this life in the first place so we have no obligations to stay alive. We all have our right to exit this world, it is a personal decision when to leave. All humans will die anyway and life is completely meaningless after all, so if someone wants to leave this life behind then that should not be viewed as wrong. I personally see no point to suffering until old age just for the sake of it and I personally do not see life as being worth living. We all have different limits as to what we can cope with after all. Non suicidal people will never be able to understand what it is like to want to exit, as they are not suicidal themselves.
 
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