I see nothingness as perfection

[Ondine0000ff]

I had this opinion for several weeks now and wish to see if other people have the exact same opinion (if you have another opinion please tell I am curious) (PS: I'm going to get a little philosophical haha).

So what makes us humans, in my opinion, is desire, or our Passions. Our survival instinct is, in a sense a Passion, a desire we have to always live which is anchored deep within us.

However, those desires that we must fulfill will inevitably harm someone else, simply because it is how the world works. In order to obtain or achieve something, we must at one point walk on someone else's dream. For example, You are in a bakery and see a delicious looking croissant, you decide to buy it. However, perhaps later in the day, someone won't have a croissant because you bought one and there's not enough left for them.

This example is very simple, but I think you can see what I mean on a bigger scale.

So the problem is, no matter how much we try and prevent someone else's suffering, it will happen, whether we like it or not.

That's why I think that ultimately, in the best case scenario, humanity should terminate itself in order to prevent anymore suffering. That way we will have reached ultimate perfection in nothingness.

But of course that won't happen because of SI.

Also, I am not saying that someone should kill everyone without their consent, as that would be crushing their dream to keep on living and a violation of their freedom.

Thank you if you read all of this lol! Please tell me what you think :D

 

[リンさん]

To me, to desire is to suffer. Inevitably, there will be desires that cannot possibly be fulfilled, whether it's something that is simply impossible or extremely frowned upon/punishable. Returning to nothingness nullifies all desire, therefore removing all suffering. This is ideal.

I don't like wanting things, personally. Sure, it feels nice to get what you want sometimes, but human mind is an endless pit that can never be filled or satisfied - it will forever yearn for more. Therefore, I am very much looking forward to freeing myself of this infinite loop.

 

[FuneralCry]

I also see nothingness as perfection, it was the ideal state that existence tragically disturbed, I just see existence as the most horrific, unnecessary mistake in the first place, there should just be nothingness instead as nobody can be harmed by the absence of everything.

It comforts me so much the thought of not existing for all eternity, in fact it's the only comfort in this cruel and futile existence where there is no limit as to how much one can be tormented.

 

[SpiritualDeath]

I agree perfectly with you. Whether you like it or not you can't end all suffering while staying in existence. There are people denying that they are inevitably and indirectly causing others' suffering when fulfilling their desires and saying that it's "none of their business", but it's always possible that the roles will change, and the benefit gainers may become sufferers in other situations. Suffering is only prolonged and continued with existence.

 

[Himalayan]

You only suffer if you want to. What others do or do not don't need to affect you at all.

 

[Ondine0000ff]

You only suffer if you want to. What others do or do not don't need to affect you at all.

But how? If we take the example of the croissant, how can I not suffer if I really wanted THAT croissant? I mean of course you can decide to buy another pastry but sometimes you just want this exact thing. At least for me.

 

[hermestrimegistus]

I dont want to be an evangelical or ever push religion on someone but with this particular mindset i'd recommend researching a bit about gnosticism specifically on how the gnostics viewed suffering as an inherent part of life. And their desire to not return to the material world. Even in just a philosophical context it might help a little

 

[Himalayan]

But how? If we take the example of the croissant, how can I not suffer if I really wanted THAT croissant? I mean of course you can decide to buy another pastry but sometimes you just want this exact thing. At least for me.

Right. You want it. So, you choosed to suffer.
For some reason, you believe you need bread to be happy.
Well, which is a good thing tbh. But also wanting that bread knowing how silly it is, is also good and will prevent suffering even if you don't get it

 

[Spike Spiegel]

I highly suggest you look into the writings of John Stuart Mill as well as Jeremey Bentham. They focus on the idea of utilitarianism, maximizing the most good or happiness with the least amount of bad or sadness. Think the classic trolly problem.

I would also posit that self discipline and tempered expectations would allow for someone to, for example, miss out on not having a croissant but having been prepared for this possibility can continue to be content with life and move on. If every person was capable of tempering and controlling inner desires while creating their own happiness we would have a sort of self sufficient emotional construct. We would be able to be insulated from the acts of others while everyone still maintains free will.

This is is all entirely hypothetical because as we know, we struggle greatly with creating our own happiness and we often cave to our desires.

In Buddhism one of the four noble truths is that life is suffering.

Suffering may be avoided by giving up on desire and following the path set out in Buddhism however it is still seen as a part of life.

This may be overly philosophical however, I do not believe life can be enjoyed without suffering. As a child I did not know how to truly be thankful for what I had, material things like a tv in my bedroom or emotional connections like friends and family. It was only after through loss, trials and tribulations where I gained such a deeper understanding of what surrounds me. I also had a better understanding of my elders.

I suppose my final thought would be, can there be harmony in imperfection?
And lastly if there is nothing, what is perfect ?

 

[rainseahorse]

i think that humanity is overall not suffering and is actually suffering less with each century, and even now the baseline poverty standards are increasing globally. while many are perhaps not contributing in some significant way, the occasional bursts of innovation and scientific advancement create a net positive. i definitely enjoy my current privileges of not having to actually hunt animals or participate in a war. since we're a minority and most of us sufferers aren't really contributing much to society anyhow, maybe it's better if we just terminated ourselves instead. while it's not impossible to change our brains, normative brains just don't suffer as much and enjoy net positive feelings.

 

[Ondine0000ff]

I highly suggest you look into the writings of John Stuart Mill as well as Jeremey Bentham. They focus on the idea of utilitarianism, maximizing the most good or happiness with the least amount of bad or sadness. Think the classic trolly problem.

I would also posit that self discipline and tempered expectations would allow for someone to, for example, miss out on not having a croissant but having been prepared for this possibility can continue to be content with life and move on. If every person was capable of tempering and controlling inner desires while creating their own happiness we would have a sort of self sufficient emotional construct. We would be able to be insulated from the acts of others while everyone still maintains free will.

This is is all entirely hypothetical because as we know, we struggle greatly with creating our own happiness and we often cave to our desires.

In Buddhism one of the four noble truths is that life is suffering.

Suffering may be avoided by giving up on desire and following the path set out in Buddhism however it is still seen as a part of life.

This may be overly philosophical however, I do not believe life can be enjoyed without suffering. As a child I did not know how to truly be thankful for what I had, material things like a tv in my bedroom or emotional connections like friends and family. It was only after through loss, trials and tribulations where I gained such a deeper understanding of what surrounds me. I also had a better understanding of my elders.

I suppose my final thought would be, can there be harmony in imperfection?
And lastly if there is nothing, what is perfect ?

Thank you for those recommendations about the authors and Gnosticism, I'll try to give it a shot. I'd also like to believe we could live together by suppressing our own desires, but I've lost hope in that. I don't know if there can be harmony in imperfection, as I can't think of something which is not perfect yet harmonious.
Your last question is relevant, I guess I can't really call this perfection… but I can't think of something else to qualify it. It is nothing I guess.

i think that humanity is overall not suffering and is actually suffering less with each century, and even now the baseline poverty standards are increasing globally. while many are perhaps not contributing in some significant way, the occasional bursts of innovation and scientific advancement create a net positive. i definitely enjoy my current privileges of not having to actually hunt animals or participate in a war. since we're a minority and most of us sufferers aren't really contributing much to society anyhow, maybe it's better if we just terminated ourselves instead. while it's not impossible to change our brains, normative brains just don't suffer as much and enjoy net positive feelings.

That's also kind of my point! Because after thinking of all of this I asked myself "why would others force suicidal people to keep on living?". Like I get it that we have different opinions, but why are they forcing their opinion on us if not just to selfishly keep us with them because they are scared to loose a relative?

Right. You want it. So, you choosed to suffer.
For some reason, you believe you need bread to be happy.
Well, which is a good thing tbh. But also wanting that bread knowing how silly it is, is also good and will prevent suffering even if you don't get it

How can wanting that bread prevent suffering even if I don't get it? You just said I "choosed to suffer" by wanting it, so it means wanting that bread will make me suffer right?