Y

Yasuke

Member
Jan 29, 2020
93
I'm not here to argue whether or not it's true.it just makes me wanna kill myself that much more. Like what the fuck if I could help myself don't you think I just fucking would? That's part of the reason I can't get out of this shit because nothing is helping including you.Or even better when they say nobody cares about you.

Ok so why should I care to do anything in that case if nobody cares? You know what I'm saying? Like if you don't care that I'm gonna to kill myself or not just say it because I know nobody does or my problems. Might as well just say fuck everything if this is how cold and calculated the human race is.
 
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Moose.000

Moose.000

"Everything is meaningless" ~King Solomon
Apr 10, 2021
210
They'll never understand because they never suffered from it, and that's fine. My personal favorite is "it's all in your head."
 
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Y

Yasuke

Member
Jan 29, 2020
93
They'll never understand because they never suffered from it, and that's fine. My personal favorite is "it's all in your head."
I think it's all so fucked anyways. Society really does just fuck people over and leaves them to die if they just don't abrtiraily fit in. It just sucks nobody can put themselves in other peoples shoes I mean literally you could of been me in a different world but you got lucky enough.

I can't save myself and others can't either that's why men like me kill themselves so why act like it's right that society doesn't do enough to make people's lives as best as they can.

It literally only could take one person to change the course of your life forever and for the better but here I am on my own all alone and I can't deal with that.
 
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J

JustLosingMyself

Mage
Sep 4, 2018
544
It may not be what you want to hear, but it's quite true.
Meds, drugs, alcohol, therapy... are crutches, nothing more.
Doesn't mean you have to help yourself though, your choice is yours. The price you pay - in pain and misery - to help yourself can be too high to bear
 
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WatermelonMel

WatermelonMel

Melon Master
Aug 19, 2019
406
Sounds about right, the world is cruel and selfish.
 
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GenesAndEnvironment

GenesAndEnvironment

Autistic loser
Jan 26, 2021
5,739
Whether you can help yourself or not depends on your genes (parents) and your environment up until this point (parents, school, etc).
 
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theresonlyonewayout

theresonlyonewayout

Student
Jan 31, 2021
121
I'm not here to argue whether or not it's true.it just makes me wanna kill myself that much more. Like what the fuck if I could help myself don't you think I just fucking would? That's part of the reason I can't get out of this shit because nothing is helping including you.Or even better when they say nobody cares about you.

Ok so why should I care to do anything in that case if nobody cares? You know what I'm saying? Like if you don't care that I'm gonna to kill myself or not just say it because I know nobody does or my problems. Might as well just say fuck everything if this is how cold and calculated the human race is.
Couldn't agree with you more. The way I see it now, if you don't care then that makes my life easier cos I care less about how my actions affect others.
 
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Carrotcake

Carrotcake

Experienced
Nov 27, 2019
265
I agree, I think it is such a unhelpful thing to say.

1) It insinuates that I am not doing enough to help myself. That it is my own fault I'm still like this.

2) It basically admits that treatment and therapy do not actually help.

3) Then the conclusion is: there is no cure. I cannot help myself. The end.
 
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Mentalmick

Mentalmick

IMHOTEP!!!
Nov 30, 2020
2,050
It's just a way of offloading liability and responsibility.
 
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Celerity

Celerity

shape without form, shade without colour
Jan 24, 2021
2,733
It is true though. Sad, but true. Part of me longs for someone to come save me, but it's never going to happen because that's impossible. I can only be my own savior, and this life isn't worth saving.
 
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blue_muse

blue_muse

Mage
Jan 31, 2021
552
I wonder about the answer for people who can demonstrate they've tried to help themselves and genuinely need another person's assistance.
 
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Mentalmick

Mentalmick

IMHOTEP!!!
Nov 30, 2020
2,050
It is true though. Sad, but true. Part of me longs for someone to come save me, but it's never going to happen because that's impossible. I can only be my own savior, and this life isn't worth saving.
Not for everyone. My mental health is at a point where I can't control it anymore. It's been a very long time since any coping strategies worked. I am pretty much reliant on meds now, and I fucking hate it with a passion.
 
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Celerity

Celerity

shape without form, shade without colour
Jan 24, 2021
2,733
Not for everyone. My mental health is at a point where I can't control it anymore. It's been a very long time since any coping strategies worked. I am pretty much reliant on meds now, and I fucking hate it with a passion.
True, maybe you can't, but would you say somebody else can save you?

I just know how hard it is to change myself. Given that, saving somebody else seems impossible.

What meds do you take, if you don't mind me asking?

Bupropion/Wellbutrin helped some for a time....until it didn't. I haven't gotten much out of most other psych meds besides Quetiapine/Seroquel, which I love for its calming and sedative properties. Don't take it often to avoid tolerance though.
 
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S

Symbiote

Global Mod
Oct 12, 2020
3,101
Uninformed people also say that because every time we open our mouth about something, they see it as whining and complaining. We could be one day away from suicide and they'll say those same words. OK, fine, I'll help myself and take care of the issue myself then, thank you very much. Then after you're dead, they'll be like, "Why couldn't I have helped them sooner?" or "They didn't ask me for help."
 
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Mentalmick

Mentalmick

IMHOTEP!!!
Nov 30, 2020
2,050
True, maybe you can't, but would you say somebody else can save you?

I just know how hard it is to change myself. Given that, saving somebody else seems impossible.

What meds do you take, if you don't mind me asking?

Bupropion/Wellbutrin helped some for a time....until it didn't. I haven't gotten much out of most other psych meds besides Quetiapine/Seroquel, which I love for its calming and sedative properties. Don't take it often to avoid tolerance though.
Not any person, no. Meds wise I'm on maximum dose venlafaxine, trazodone, olanzapine, simvastatin, propanolol (I always think propanolaughoutloud), omeprazole. I used to be on diazepam, lorazepam, mirtazapine, citalopram and some antihistamine med but they all stopped working.
 
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Sprite_Geist

Sprite_Geist

NULL
May 27, 2020
1,584
The phrase: "Nobody can help you but yourself" is too broad and does take into consideration situations were a person cannot succeed without the support of others. Imagine being stuck in a burning building, and instead of contacting the fire department the people below say: "You need to help yourself out of this one, and stop relying on others!" ...You would die. The principle in this example can be applied to many problems in life such as poverty, abuse and of course: suicide. Not everybody can help themselves, and there are times in all of our lives were we do need support from other people - otherwise we will perish. We did evolve as pack animals after all, and this means we should at least try to look out for one another if possible.

Even if somebody is capable of solving a problem themselves that does not mean others should not try to assist, or to at least attempt to understand what the sufferer is going through. If a person slips over in the street you might rush over and ask: "Are you okay?" that person can pick themselves up just fine, but you offered to help anyway - but why? Empathy.

Perhaps this is an unfair generalization, because it is not possible to gauge the intention of every human, but it does seem that phrases such as: "You must help yourself" often translate to: "I don't want to help you - not my problem" - it is simply a dismissal of what everyone else is going through while trying to sound polite.

If your pain and anguish are not the problem of other people then it is not your problem if they get upset once you are gone - it works both ways.
 
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Y

Yasuke

Member
Jan 29, 2020
93
The phrase: "Nobody can help you but yourself" is too broad and does take into consideration situations were a person cannot succeed without the support of others. Imagine being stuck in a burning building, and instead of contacting the fire department the people below say: "You need to help yourself out of this one, and stop relying on others!" ...You would die. The principle in this example can be applied to many problems in life such as poverty, abuse and of course: suicide. Not everybody can help themselves, and there are times in all of our lives were we do need support from other people - otherwise we will perish. We did evolve as pack animals after all, and this means we should at least try to look out for one another if possible.

Even if somebody is capable of solving a problem themselves that does not mean others should not try to assist, or to at least attempt to understand what the sufferer is going through. If a person slips over in the street you might rush over and ask: "Are you okay?" that person can pick themselves up just fine, but you offered to help anyway - but why? Empathy.

Perhaps this is an unfair generalization, because it is not possible to gauge the intention of every human, but it does seem that phrases such as: "You must help yourself" often translate to: "I don't want to help you - not my problem" - it is simply a dismissal of what everyone else is going through while trying to sound polite.

If your pain and anguish are not the problem of other people then it is not your problem if they get upset once you are gone - it works both ways.
Yeah very well put. I have thought along the same lines. Like for example I struggle with loneliness which can't possibly be all my fault because it's a two way street. You can't tell me if someone made an effort to be a friend or girlfriend that it isn't helping me relieve my anguish of loneliness especially when I'm the one that always has to reach out then get shot down. I hate that word nobody. If we actually had this mentality that nobody owes you anything for example we wouldn't even have a need for hospital with the exception for money.
 
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W

WornOutLife

マット
Mar 22, 2020
7,164
I totally agree with you.
I think the main problem here is that normal people, or simply individuals who are not dealing with depression and suicidal thoughts, have no way of understanding the way we really feel.

That's why many of us find therapy so ridiculous.

I think without any kind of extrinsic motivation (money, love, etc) it's impossible for us to get out of the "ctb zone".
 
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LastLoveLetter

LastLoveLetter

Persephone
Mar 28, 2021
657
The phrase: "Nobody can help you but yourself" is too broad and does take into consideration situations were a person cannot succeed without the support of others. Imagine being stuck in a burning building, and instead of contacting the fire department the people below say: "You need to help yourself out of this one, and stop relying on others!" ...You would die. The principle in this example can be applied to many problems in life such as poverty, abuse and of course: suicide. Not everybody can help themselves, and there are times in all of our lives were we do need support from other people - otherwise we will perish. We did evolve as pack animals after all, and this means we should at least try to look out for one another if possible.

Even if somebody is capable of solving a problem themselves that does not mean others should not try to assist, or to at least attempt to understand what the sufferer is going through. If a person slips over in the street you might rush over and ask: "Are you okay?" that person can pick themselves up just fine, but you offered to help anyway - but why? Empathy.

Perhaps this is an unfair generalization, because it is not possible to gauge the intention of every human, but it does seem that phrases such as: "You must help yourself" often translate to: "I don't want to help you - not my problem" - it is simply a dismissal of what everyone else is going through while trying to sound polite.

If your pain and anguish are not the problem of other people then it is not your problem if they get upset once you are gone - it works both ways.
Excellent post, thank you. I have spent many years thinking that only I can "save" myself, but I can't, and there is a lot of deep rooted shame as a result of that. I think it's because I've been told over the years - even by mental health professionals - that I must save myself. No other person can rescue me. It's my responsibility and mine alone. This seems to be a blanket statement applied to all of us indiscriminately, regardless of our circumstances. It's actually reading posts like this that have changed my view and the unrealistic level of responsibility I have placed on myself.

Of course, the capacity to take steps to help ourselves is useful, but not always possible. It's sad that (at least in my experience) people are blamed and shamed if they actually can't help or save themselves. It's not that I didn't try, or didn't want to. I just couldn't do it. But that makes me "needy" or "not ready" or "self-pitying" because my efforts were unsuccessful.

I agree that perhaps it's dismissal, an attempt to shift blame and responsibility.
 
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nolongerhuman

nolongerhuman

Arcanist
Feb 9, 2021
497
Some nurse at a local psychiatric emergency room legit said that to me when I was being evaluated for suicidal ideation and said I wanted help. "You have to help yourself". B*tch, If I could have helped myself do you think that I would be here? Why do you think psychiatric wards exist? Do you think you are employed to sit there, twiddle your thumbs and whine about your ex? The line is basically a very slightly less rude way of saying "I don't care, piss off".
 
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StringPuppet

StringPuppet

Lost
Oct 5, 2020
579
I don't know if it's true or not either but I do know that I'm too weak to help myself so if someone says this to me they're effectively saying I'm screwed
 
KuriGohan&Kamehameha

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

想死不能 - 想活不能
Nov 23, 2020
1,682
Man, I hate that bullshit, nonsensical, asinine, stupid, ridiculous, bootstrapping, victim blaming reasoning too. Others might as well admit upfront that they simply don't care rather than spouting off those harmful platitudes of rugged individualism.

Of course there are some things that one must do on their own. For example, no one is going to sit and write a research paper for me, that's a task I must accomplish of my own volition. However, normies love to apply this logic to all problems and situations, as if people are personally 100% responsible for every single event in their lives with zero influence exuding from outside forces and interactions.

Humans are social creatures with varying levels of interpersonal needs. While one person may get by just fine in solitude, most people are going to experience sorrow and loneliness when they are forced to exist alone without any relationships or connections. Yet rather than helping the struggling party with forming these bonds, people often blame the individual for being lonely and try to pin the issue on their character. Fundamental attribution error.

That is a scenario that I see being framed as a personal issue far too often. Only you can sway other people to like you. It's your fault you're alone and unfulfilled, you have to dig your way out, sort of rhetoric. Frankly, I think it is a load of horse shit. A lot of the people who say these cop outs are privledged and have loving families, partners, and a wide circle of friends. They fundamentally don't understand what it's like to be isolated, or the circumstances that would result in one being shut off from social opportunities.

To solve a problem, you typically would want to consult various sources and work together with others. That's how some of the greatest discoveries in the history of civilization managed to come about, as two heads are greater than one, after all. However, society has been steamrolling away from collectivist dogma for many decades now- individualism is the crux of modern culture. If you can't micromanage 10 billion different aspects of your life on your own, you are branded as a failure.

That is why so many treatments and therapies fail the suicidal and the ailing, because they treat the client as the sole issue. You are the one with the diseased mind or thought process, you are the one who isn't putting in effort, you are the one who doesn't want to get better. It isn't your environment or your upbringing that's trapped you in this deadlock sort of state, it's your poor decisions, of course. That's what they want you to believe, when reality is far more nuanced and complex than these generalisations.

There are so many problems that cannot be solved without a helping hand from others. Some people are miserable trying to be fully independent, due to the fact that we aren't really programmed to sit alone in tiny boxes all day staring at screens with no reprieve. Some people are disabled like I am, and we cannot survive without the benevolence of others. The world at large likes to pretend that these vunerable populations do not exist and that we are secretly lazy leeches who simply do not try to be indepdent and self sufficient.
 
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LastLoveLetter

LastLoveLetter

Persephone
Mar 28, 2021
657
Some people are disabled like I am, and we cannot survive without the benevolence of others. The world at large likes to pretend that we do not exist and that we are secretly lazy leeches who simply do not try to be indepdent and self sufficient.
Exactly. This is my situation. I am permanently, incurably disabled. What upsets me is that due to my incredibly low opinion of myself, I genuinely internalised this message, that it's my fault. That is my responsibility to save myself. That it's my problem and mine alone. I wonder how many others, fragile and fed up and with zero self-esteem through no fault of their own, also believe and internalise such beliefs, that only makes them feel even more broken and unworthy?

The fact this rhetoric is incorporated into therapy is reprehensible. No wonder I always found therapy to be invalidating, gaslighty and manipulative. I could never quite pinpoint why, but I think their perspective of the client not doing enough to help themselves is a significant part of why I felt that way. They were suggesting that my limitations are either imaginary, or my own fault.
 
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Sprite_Geist

Sprite_Geist

NULL
May 27, 2020
1,584
Yeah very well put. I have thought along the same lines. Like for example I struggle with loneliness which can't possibly be all my fault because it's a two way street. You can't tell me if someone made an effort to be a friend or girlfriend that it isn't helping me relieve my anguish of loneliness especially when I'm the one that always has to reach out then get shot down. I hate that word nobody. If we actually had this mentality that nobody owes you anything for example we wouldn't even have a need for hospital with the exception for money.
Thank you.

I think that you are correct about loneliness, because it definitely is a two way street. Yes - of course a person must make the effort themselves to meet other individuals. At the same time, though, if others constantly reject your efforts it can be very hurtful. It can cause you to withdraw from social interactions. This, in turn, makes it more difficult to socialize in the future, and decreases the chances of somebody else wanting to reciprocate.

It is a vicious cycle, and one that your friends (that you have mentioned) contribute to. It can be comparable to trying to be incredibly positive to the point that it burns you out mentally, so you stop being positive altogether out of both the lack of energy and desire. The problem then is that others will look at you and think: "Why are they (you) so miserable and negative?" and they do not realise you are that way because they have constantly thrown your attempts at positivity, toward them, back in your face. Relationships are complex and also require maintenance at both sides, so in some circumstances it is both parties that are at fault when the bridge collapses.

Excellent post, thank you. I have spent many years thinking that only I can "save" myself, but I can't, and there is a lot of deep rooted shame as a result of that. I think it's because I've been told over the years - even by mental health professionals - that I must save myself. No other person can rescue me. It's my responsibility and mine alone. This seems to be a blanket statement applied to all of us indiscriminately, regardless of our circumstances. It's actually reading posts like this that have changed my view and the unrealistic level of responsibility I have placed on myself.

Of course, the capacity to take steps to help ourselves is useful, but not always possible. It's sad that (at least in my experience) people are blamed and shamed if they actually can't help or save themselves. It's not that I didn't try, or didn't want to. I just couldn't do it. But that makes me "needy" or "not ready" or "self-pitying" because my efforts were unsuccessful.

I agree that perhaps it's dismissal, an attempt to shift blame and responsibility.
Thank you too. You have made an excellent post in turn.

You have raised an interesting point about personal responsibility and shame. If everyone else expects you to solve your own issues without using outside help then that might mean they do not care about you. At the same time if you are shamed by others then that must mean they want something off of you - even just your presence - because shaming is a tactic often used to control people that are still wanted. It does seem like a slight contradiction to not want anything to do with others, or their problems, but at the same time feel entitled to dictate how they behave in response - "We do not care about your life, but we care what you do with it."

It is similar to when a suicidal person is berated and labelled as "weak" for not being able to repair their lives without intervention, but at the same time those who shamed them may also use an argument such as: "You can't kill yourself. Think of all the people that rely on you that you'll be leaving behind!" ...Oh - really? If we (those who are suicidal) must be independent and self-reliant then surely those who are against our suicide should be too? Instead of expecting us to live just to serve them when they do not wish to do the same for us.
 
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Aeathelina

Aeathelina

Little Homeless Girl
Feb 5, 2020
308
I hate that phrase because I've raised with the idea that's true and if you're a failure then deserve whatever happens. Perhaps years of being abused make it so that I believe this statement and hate myself because I couldn't help myself
 
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Rolliewoo

Rolliewoo

Member
Mar 14, 2021
61
The phrase: "Nobody can help you but yourself" is too broad and does take into consideration situations were a person cannot succeed without the support of others. Imagine being stuck in a burning building, and instead of contacting the fire department the people below say: "You need to help yourself out of this one, and stop relying on others!" ...You would die. The principle in this example can be applied to many problems in life such as poverty, abuse and of course: suicide. Not everybody can help themselves, and there are times in all of our lives were we do need support from other people - otherwise we will perish. We did evolve as pack animals after all, and this means we should at least try to look out for one another if possible.

Even if somebody is capable of solving a problem themselves that does not mean others should not try to assist, or to at least attempt to understand what the sufferer is going through. If a person slips over in the street you might rush over and ask: "Are you okay?" that person can pick themselves up just fine, but you offered to help anyway - but why? Empathy.

Perhaps this is an unfair generalization, because it is not possible to gauge the intention of every human, but it does seem that phrases such as: "You must help yourself" often translate to: "I don't want to help you - not my problem" - it is simply a dismissal of what everyone else is going through while trying to sound polite.

If your pain and anguish are not the problem of other people then it is not your problem if they get upset once you are gone - it works both ways.
Wow....so well said
 
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domedune

domedune

the stars will aid my escape
Dec 18, 2019
255
They'll never understand because they never suffered from it, and that's fine. My personal favorite is "it's all in your head."
Oh ok well then I'll just exist outside my own mind. Simple.
 
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Superdeterminist

Superdeterminist

Enlightened
Apr 5, 2020
1,877
It's like they're content to live in a dog-eat-dog world. Truly vile.
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
37,046
I agree. The worst are ignorant people who say that positive thinking and just the right mindset can fix all problems. They just haven't suffered enough. The truth is that for me, there is nothing that could have prevented my problems, they are all completely out of my control. It is simply inevitable that I am this way and I cannot change. If I could help myself I would.
 
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S

StarLight

Member
Apr 17, 2021
20
In my case it's true. I am where I am as a result of others actions that I had no control over at the time, but that time has passed, and right now the only thing holding me back is me. That certainly doesn't mean I'm actually capable of helping myself though. The damage has been done. No matter how many times people try to say that once you're an adult you should be capable of moving on and healing doesn't make it true in my case. I am the way that I am so thoroughly that asking me to just help myself and change myself and my life for the better is akin to expecting a fish to sprout legs and walk on land and get a phd in astrophysics.

But no one else can help me either. I'm so unable to properly engage with life and with other people, that even if there were some crazy person out there who wanted to try to help me, they wouldn't be able to do it because I would need to be able to engage with said attempts to help and not just completely shut down. No one could just do all the heavy lifting for me. And that's what makes it so painful and depressing, knowing it's true that only I can help myself, because that means I'm doomed since I can't do it.
 

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