Help I... I just need some input I guess

[Yuqani]

Hi! Some storytelling ahead. Thanks for reading. I'll try to make it snappy.
I appreciate any input.

I'm, well, on the very edge. Going SN. Got the whole shebang ready including diazepam and oxycontin.
My targeted time, this January, is here now... but I made a big no-no around christmas.

I told someone.
Someone I felt like they had a right to know.
Over about 7 years now, he's become almost a father-figure (the age diff fits this bill). He tons of stuff for me, including signing in on my appartment rent contract.
Never would've gotten this without him.
I told him since once I'll ctb, he's gonna be paying some bills instead. The fact that he could probably afford it (top 10% income household in my country) didn't matter. Not telling felt nasty, I was on benzos and spilled the beans.

His reaction was expected: empathetic and kind but clearly shocked.
What made things worse is his wife. Who is also my former youth-specialized therapist (41 at the time) who had engaged a sexual relationship with me, her patient, 20 at the time. It lasted a few years. She very "discreetly" and conveniently disconnected with me - I suspect I eventually got boring as a toy.
No, I'm not butthurt about it. You are. Whatever.

My "real" family is a class A dumpsterfire and left me FUBAR. I cut ALL contact with blood relatives.

I was an awkward, isolated, broke, virgin lad living in temporary housing when she "picked me up" and somehow integrated me into her family.
At first I was the "new sensation" for a lack of a better term, but that novelty wore off.

I've been the most isolated, insecure NEET for years now.
I've felt neglected. Months without any interaction.
But now... now that she knows about "it"... Oh boy.
I feel she's using "love-bombs" and the occasional guilt trip. I don't know how genuine she is but is trying to make preventative efforts.
We argued over that whole therapist-patient-sex thing, too. She's partially blaming me. To be fair, it was consensual, I was an adult, but the power dynamic couldn't have been more in her favor.
I was so vulnerable.

Ok, wrapping up.

Really.... I just wanna go. I'm FUBAR. Can't hold jobs. Can't make friends. Can't approach women.
No guarantee any efforts would yield anything - and I'm not much of a gambler.
I see that it's only gonna get worse with age (27 atm) as there tend to be more offers geared toward younger ones... and my relative physical health won't last forever, either...
Some just die sad and lonely. Ya'll don't need me to tell you, I'm sure.

The seeds of doubt have been planted. But I really, really just want to go.
The memories to go away. The humiliation of my failures to stop haunting me.

Thank you for your time.

 

[enlightened_suicide]

Thank you for sharing your story, and I'm sorry that you have come to feel this way.

If there is anything you ever need, or anything
we would like to help you best we can and be there.
always feel free to pm if you ever need or wanna talk

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Can you list exactly what you want input on?

I'm itching to comment on her putting partial blame on you but I'm holding off until I know what you're seeking.

 

[Backwood_tilt]

We argued over that whole therapist-patient-sex thing, too. She's partially blaming me. To be fair, it was consensual, I was an adult, but the power dynamic couldn't have been more in her favor.
I was so vulnerable.

I don't know what country you are in, but at least in the US this would probably result in her being banned from her working in her profession ever again. You highlighted the important part - you were very vulnerable, and you went to someone for help, and they abused that power dynamic and working relationship to get something out of you.

This isn't the same kind of consent you get from just meeting someone off the cuff and developing a relationship with them, and i hope you don't ever buy into her BS that you are partially to blame - or at all to blame.

 

[Yuqani]

Can you list exactly what you want input on?

I'm itching to comment on her putting partial blame on you but I'm holding off until I know what you're seeking.

I... I'm not sure what I want input on specifically.
Huh. You've made me realize all I really did was vent and then ask you whether I should ctb or not. I'm sorry. That's not good.

As for the therapist, some background:
She admits she's not your "standard person". She thinks our disorders are complementary and attraction happened that way.

She has claimed in the past that "I seduced her during some of our sessions", though she was drunk when she claimed this.

The second "private meeting" we had, she brought alcohol and laid a line of fucking cocaine on my table, trying to get me to snort. I had never even SEEN WEED before. I was a fucking geek in arrested development, lmao...
Yeah, she got me into drugs. Gave me molly, did some LSD, yada yada.
Apparently she's got a history of cheating on different partners since her youth and whatnot.
She got pregnant while married - but it "isn't her husband's". Husband knows it and doesn't care. To him it is.
He's amazing and very nice.

Anyhow, oversharing on drugs is very cringy...

And she used to send extremely mixed messages, ALL the time. Acknowledging that what she did was immoral, she even wanted to report herself, but didn't. On other moments, she sat on top of me, choking me, telling me she'd kill me if I'd ever get another girlfriend.

When she was sober, she was like "this has to stop. go find a real girlfriend".

EDIT:
I WANT TO BE HONEST BUT FAIR. Many of these things and more happened over large time spans and seem more extreme when compressed like in this post.

Also, she's had lots of success with other patients, partly because she's got a way of dealing with youth by... idk, partly staying youthful herself maybe? I'm no pro. But some patients connect much better with her than others, especially borderliners.
Source: her. lmao.

 

[Schadenfreude]

booooooooooooy, she's an emotional wreck. how the hell she got into that profession is what amazes me

 

[Backwood_tilt]

This person really should not be a therapist.

You got dragged into someone else's maelstrom when you were looking for your own kind of peace and healing, and that is really unfortunate.

I would honestly suggest you think twice about reporting this person irrespective of if you CTB, as the likelihood of her doing this to someone else is so high. Nobody deserves to be treated the way she treated you - you certainly didn't.

 

[Yuqani]

I don't know what country you are in, but at least in the US this would probably result in her being banned from her working in her profession ever again. You highlighted the important part - you were very vulnerable, and you went to someone for help, and they abused that power dynamic and working relationship to get something out of you.

This isn't the same kind of consent you get from just meeting someone off the cuff and developing a relationship with them, and i hope you don't ever buy into her BS that you are partially to blame - or at all to blame.

I'm trapped between acknowledging this obvious power dynamic and "finger pointing" because even if I act like a spoiled, insensitive manchild sometimes (especially when not on benzos), I want to take responsibility for my very own failings.

I COULD have pushed through. I wasn't strong enough.
SOME made it out of worse situations. I failed. I'll never deny how utterly incompetent I am.

 

[Backwood_tilt]

I'm trapped between acknowledging this obvious power dynamic and "finger pointing" because even if I act like a spoiled, insensitive manchild sometimes (especially when not on benzos), I want to take responsibility for my very own failings.

I COULD have pushed through. I wasn't strong enough.
SOME made it out of worse situations. I failed. I'll never deny how utterly incompetent I am.

I completely understand. I have a different situation but this is almost exactly how i feel. That i am weak, that i am not one of the "stronger" ones slated to survive the adversity i have faced. And when I admit that, it feels like a relief to accept responsibility for what is perceived as my "own" failings.

That doesn't change how objectively fucked up your therapist treated you, though. It doesn't change how fucked up people in my life treated me, either. We are just internalizing that guilt and shame, maybe due to a lack of self worth or some other reasons. Maybe it gives us some perverse sense of control over our situations, which we were otherwise lacking.

The seeds of doubt have been planted. But I really, really just want to go.
The memories to go away. The humiliation of my failures to stop haunting me.

I feel for you.

 

[Tempeste]

Could you have? Honestly?
Did you have that kind of personal power at the moment or were you vulnerable, scared, and too open to manipulation?
This was a person with considerable power and authority over you who seems to have abused their position.
Would seeking new help to talk about that experience be beneficial?

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

To clarify, I didn't ask about whether you should ctb or not, only what input you were seeking. I didn't want to cross a boundary by commenting on something that you didn't want input about, that is, her behavior.

If you lived in a neighborhood where everyone was a burglar, and you left the house with the door unlocked, and told your neighbors the door was unlocked, and they entered and stole something, is there a law that says you are responsible for their stealing, or a law that says they are?

If you go out in public with money in your wallet, and someone robs you, is there a law that says you are responsible for carrying money, or is there a law that says the robber is responsible?

The therapist's licensure has clear ethical guidelines that if she engages in sexual activity with her client, she will lose her license, not that you will lose the right to ethical treatment. Even if you'd instigated it, her clear responsibility was to refer you to another practitioner. She also crossed boundaries by getting you involved with her family, and if such boundary violations aren't addressed in the licensure ethics, they potentially are addressed by any professional organizations she may be a member of. Giving you illicit drugs broke the law, as did physically assaulting you. Sharing about her personal life, such as paternity of her child and her complementary disorders, was an ethical violation. No matter how messed up she is, she is also a perpetrator. You have zero blame in any of her actions.

I know her husband helped you, but the relationship should never have existed in the first place. They *both* took advantage of your vulnerability and what you didn't know. You've said only good things about him, but I suspect with the safe distance of time away from him you may begin to recognize ways in which he inappropriately tested and perhaps even crossed your boundaries. If he is in a relationship with her, he also has issues and is likely a perpetrator of some kind.

I would recommend going permanent no contact with both of them. I doubt they would retaliate by sending law enforcement or mental health professionals to do a welfare check, or try to get you institutionalized for saying you would ctb, as they would be potentially exposing her to loss of her license. However if that happens, you do not have to answer the door, and you can say that you are fine and never claimed to have such intentions, and can say that you do not have them.

Please do not blame yourself! These are unhealthy people who took advantage of the fact that you did not have the awareness that a healthy, stable family foundation would have given you. You are not to blame for their lack of boundaries. Her job was to protect you and she unequivocally did not. Therapists are not supposed to involve their clients in their personal lives or cross physical boundaries beyond handshakes and mutually agreed-upon, safe hugs, let alone give them drugs and assault them. She is extremely manipulative. So is he.

I know that you have been victimized, but I hope that what I've said empowers you rather than compounding feelings that take away from your self worth. If I had the ability to fight for you, I would, but by sharing my outside perspective, I hope that it helps you to fight for yourself, to be okay with yourself. You did *nothing* wrong.

 

[Yuqani]

Could you have? Honestly?
Did you have that kind of personal power at the moment or were you vulnerable, scared, and too open to manipulation?
This was a person with considerable power and authority over you who seems to have abused their position.
Would seeking new help to talk about that experience be beneficial?

I'll never fully deny that I was an adult and could've rejected her invitation to that bar she gave me that first night.
I did have my doubts, of course... although my moral judgement was kind of... busy... dealing with the whiskey.

I doubt seeking new help would be beneficial. Since I became a pseudo-part of her family, she talked to me about psychotherapy and therapists and gave me insights "behind the curtain". Mostly by ranting about her peers and colleagues and their methods and such.
How she and her colleagues talk about YOU, the patient, when you're not listening. When they're writing their reports at home.
They act all "tell me everything, it's okay", but they DO judge. They DO ridicule. They ARE lying to you, when THEY deem it beneficial to you.
All behind your back, of course.

I'm not shocked. They're humans, after all. But my "illusion of professionality" is gone. You know, the instinct to trust the expertise of the man in a doctors coat or a lab coat?
That's been obliterated.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

...it feels like a relief to accept responsibility for what is perceived as my "own" failings....Maybe it gives us some perverse sense of control over our situations, which we were otherwise lacking.

I was abused growing up and always told to take responsibility for my actions, only I ended up taking responsibility for perpetrators' actions, such as not giving credence to red flags, or for putting myself in situations where I ended up being perpetrated against. I finally know that I am not responsible for others' actions, and that I was not the *creator* of the situations, even if I walked into rather than running away from them. I was conditioned to not protect myself.

I am extremely conscientious, I take responsibility for my actions, I give consideration to constructive criticism, I try to improve as a person, I try to be aware of others' boundaries and apologize when I have not recognized them. But I do NOT take responsibility any more for what others do to me. That's ultimately what a manipulator wants, for the victim to take the burden of responsibility and to make them feel better. Not to fix them, just to soothe them, so they can keep perpetrating and keep hiding from how awful their actions are. They expect us to face ourselves but they never have the strength to face themselves. We are so much more powerful inside than they can ever hope to be, and it's that power they assault.

I'll never fully deny that I was an adult and could've rejected her invitation to that bar she gave me that first night.
I did have my doubts, of course... although my moral judgement was kind of... busy... dealing with the whiskey.

I doubt seeking new help would be beneficial. Since I became a pseudo-part of her family, she talked to me about psychotherapy and therapists and gave me insights "behind the curtain". Mostly by ranting about her peers and colleagues and their methods and such.
How she and her colleagues talk about YOU, the patient, when you're not listening. When they're writing their reports at home.
They act all "tell me everything, it's okay", but they DO judge. They DO ridicule. They ARE lying to you, when THEY deem it beneficial to you.
All behind your back, of course.

I'm not shocked. They're humans, after all. But my "illusion of professionality" is gone. You know, the instinct to trust the expertise of the man in a doctors coat or a lab coat?
That's been obliterated.

She was poisoning the well, manipulating you so that you would not trust someone who would actually help you.

I worked in an administrative position for several years in a community mental health center. My best friends at and outside of work were therapists and a nurse practitioner. No one sat around making fun of clients and their problems. HIPAA (confidentiality) laws were supposed to prevent us from talking about what was disclosed in sessions, and I can attest that sometimes such things were talked about, but not in the manner your therapist told you. There was never any ridiculing or bullying-style behavior.

Your former therapist was highly manipulative and narcissitic. I would regard anything she ever said as suspect.

If I were in your position and ever saw another therapist, I would tell them I want their promise that they would never discuss me outside of their own supervision, which is to support them so that they can better support you.

 

[Rotten thing]

You needed help, sought it. Instead of getting help you were manipulated and abused into a relationship with a woman twice your age. Her husband isn't as nice as he seems. If he was, he would have stopped her long ago or at least would have warned you. You did nothing wrong. YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME. YOU DESERVE BETTER.

 

[exhausted]

I'll never fully deny that I was an adult and could've rejected her invitation to that bar she gave me that first night.
I did have my doubts, of course... although my moral judgement was kind of... busy... dealing with the whiskey.

I doubt seeking new help would be beneficial. Since I became a pseudo-part of her family, she talked to me about psychotherapy and therapists and gave me insights "behind the curtain". Mostly by ranting about her peers and colleagues and their methods and such.
How she and her colleagues talk about YOU, the patient, when you're not listening. When they're writing their reports at home.
They act all "tell me everything, it's okay", but they DO judge. They DO ridicule. They ARE lying to you, when THEY deem it beneficial to you.
All behind your back, of course.

I'm not shocked. They're humans, after all. But my "illusion of professionality" is gone. You know, the instinct to trust the expertise of the man in a doctors coat or a lab coat?
That's been obliterated.

I cannot bloody believe that woman. A patient CANNOT consent. This is all kinds of wrong. Also, I always knew therapists were human behind the scenes, I have never had any reason to trust them, but I imagine this could be quite upsetting for people to read. As long as the therapists' facade stays in place, and they aren't biased and keep their feelings in check (everyone needs to let off steam, I get it) I imagine they are still helpful to people. I can completely understand your trust issues now though! I have had an abusive therapist myself, not of this severity though.

Seriously, please, please talk to somebody about therapist abuse, it messes with you more than you know. Doesn't matter that you were 20. Doesn't matter that you went to the bar. It is so normal for patients to feel attracted to therapists,or to want to spend more time with them, it's called erotic transference and therapists are TRAINED to deal with it professionally, it's an adult expression of a child's bond. It's normal to have romantic/sexual feelings when vulnerable and being helped. That sicko took advantage of a natural response in a patient. Don't victim-blame yourself. She says you seduced her in some of your sessions? That's disgusting. She integrated you into her family? That is so, so messed up. Ok, I just re-read and you were also a virgin when she did this? I swear to god. This might not be what you were asking for in this thread, but this is complex trauma. I just want to validate that. I don't want to make you feel worse, but yeah, she should be in prison tbh.

You are so strong, you are so strong.

 

[Yuqani]

To clarify, I didn't ask about whether you should ctb or not, only what input you were seeking. I didn't want to cross a boundary by commenting on something that you didn't want input about, that is, her behavior.

If you lived in a neighborhood where everyone was a burglar, and you left the house with the door unlocked, and told your neighbors the door was unlocked, and they entered and stole something, is there a law that says you are responsible for their stealing, or a law that says they are?

If you go out in public with money in your wallet, and someone robs you, is there a law that says you are responsible for carrying money, or is there a law that says the robber is responsible?

The therapist's licensure has clear ethical guidelines that if she engages in sexual activity with her client, she will lose her license, not that you will lose the right to ethical treatment. Even if you'd instigated it, her clear responsibility was to refer you to another practitioner. She also crossed boundaries by getting you involved with her family, and if such boundary violations aren't addressed in the licensure ethics, they potentially are addressed by any professional organizations she may be a member of. Giving you illicit drugs broke the law, as did physically assaulting you. Sharing about her personal life, such as paternity of her child and her complementary disorders, was an ethical violation. No matter how messed up she is, she is also a perpetrator. You have zero blame in any of her actions.

I know her husband helped you, but the relationship should never have existed in the first place. They *both* took advantage of your vulnerability and what you didn't know. You've said only good things about him, but I suspect with the safe distance of time away from him you may begin to recognize ways in which he inappropriately tested and perhaps even crossed your boundaries. If he is in a relationship with her, he also has issues and is likely a perpetrator of some kind.

I would recommend going permanent no contact with both of them. I doubt they would retaliate by sending law enforcement or mental health professionals to do a welfare check, or try to get you institutionalized for saying you would ctb, as they would be potentially exposing her to loss of her license. However if that happens, you do not have to answer the door, and you can say that you are fine and never claimed to have such intentions, and can say that you do not have them.

Please do not blame yourself! These are unhealthy people who took advantage of the fact that you did not have the awareness that a healthy, stable family foundation would have given you. You are not to blame for their lack of boundaries. Her job was to protect you and she unequivocally did not. Therapists are not supposed to involve their clients in their personal lives or cross physical boundaries beyond handshakes and mutually agreed-upon, safe hugs, let alone give them drugs and assault them. She is extremely manipulative. So is he.

I know that you have been victimized, but I hope that what I've said empowers you rather than compounding feelings that take away from your self worth. If I had the ability to fight for you, I would, but by sharing my outside perspective, I hope that it helps you to fight for yourself, to be okay with yourself. You did *nothing* wrong.

As someone that's usually only talking to himself, I appreciate the thorough analysis and opinion! I mean it.
Although I simply cannot agree with you about her husband.
I could never express in words the genuine nature of the help he'd provide, constantly and in many ways.

The therapist... definitely violated codes of ethics.
Maybe it's the years of literal sex and drugs I was provided, but I'm not on a path of "retribution" or anything.
I cannot deny that *both* of them have helped me in these years...

Cutting contact with them... sounds terrifying. All I'd have left is my dog.
I mean, I fucking love my little pooper, and I saved a few hundred bucks to compensate for "leaving her behind".

I couldn't possibly give her away while I'm alive. She's the most family-like soul I've ever had.
It would mean I HAD to ctb no matter what. I'd never give her away and keep living.
(Of course I'd make sure she wouldn't starve or anything! timed emails and stuff.)

EDIT:
Oof, I just noticed a thing:

To clarify: I was not her patient the entire affair. Just the first couple of months or so.
That first invitation to the bar was framed as, how could I put it.... "celebration of imminent therapy conclusion" or something.
Intercourse only happened like thrice or so while being a patient.

So all that "becoming family" stuff happened in an EX-therapist setting.
Important to note. My bad; it's 4AM here in central Europe and I'm trying my best to read and answer you all! I didn't expect so much attention.

...you're a lovely bunch

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

As someone that's usually only talking to himself, I appreciate the thorough analysis and opinion! I mean it.
Although I simply cannot agree with you about her husband.
I could never express in words the genuine nature of the help he'd provide, constantly and in many ways.

The therapist... definitely violated codes of ethics.
Maybe it's the years of literal sex and drugs I was provided, but I'm not on a path of "retribution" or anything.
I cannot deny that *both* of them have helped me in these years...

Cutting contact with them... sounds terrifying. All I'd have left is my dog.
I mean, I fucking love my little pooper, and I saved a few hundred bucks to compensate for "leaving her behind".

I couldn't possibly give her away while I'm alive. She's the most family-like soul I've ever had.
It would mean I HAD to ctb no matter what. I'd never give her away and keep living.
(Of course I'd make sure she wouldn't starve or anything! timed emails and stuff.)

It is understandable that it's scary to consider cutting off the only human support you have, even if it is unhealthy. I hope if you choose to not ctb or are undecided about it that you seek other human support, such as a safe therapist or a group of safe people with whom you have common interests.

Really glad you posted here. Many people have independently given similar input to mine, and it may take awhile to see that the woman and her husband are more negative than positive influences. You don't have to be on a path of retribution, it's about your own self worth and empowerment. People here have shown you safe and empowering support, so I bet there are others irl who would do the same, who wouldn't take from you but would build you up. I wish all good things for you whatever you decide, peace in ctb or peace in life and relationships.

EDIT in response to your edit: It doesn't matter that you were no longer her client when she introduced you to her family, there are ethical guidelines about that as well. In some places, once you have been a client, it is as if you were a client for life. In other places, the ethics apply for a certain number of years (not weeks or months) after treatment is terminated.