WillOxyWork

WillOxyWork

Student
Jul 4, 2020
126
I keep on holding on to this fantasy/delusion that if I ctb maybe I can wake up before everything went downhill and try again. My world was shattered with a careless mistake that permanently damaged my health, and I'd do anything to go back to fix it. And if I'm wrong, and death is just eternal oblivion, it doesn't really matter anyways.
 
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W

Wisdom3_1-9

he/him/his
Jul 19, 2020
1,954
We have no idea what's going to happen. Some of us may be pretty confident in our assumptions, but really, no one can say anything with absolute certainty.

There is a theory that the "light at the end of the tunnel" alluded to in near-death experiences is the light of escaping from the womb in the next life. I don't subscribe to that belief, but I've always found it an interesting concept. So who knows? Maybe there will be another chance...
 
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WillOxyWork

WillOxyWork

Student
Jul 4, 2020
126
So who knows? Maybe there will be another chance...
It just seems like very dangerous thinking when I should be looking forward. Objectively I have a good life, aside from my health issues (depression, tinnitus, visual snow). But it's been 10 weeks since I permanently harmed myself and I can't accept how it's changed my life. I'd do anything to go back
 
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Deleted member 17949

Deleted member 17949

Visionary
May 9, 2020
2,238
I have this thought too that maybe there is another chance after I throw this one away. I kinda hope that is the case.
 
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autumnal

autumnal

Enlightened
Feb 4, 2020
1,950
I keep on holding on to this fantasy/delusion that if I ctb maybe I can wake up before everything went downhill and try again. My world was shattered with a careless mistake that permanently damaged my health, and I'd do anything to go back to fix it. And if I'm wrong, and death is just eternal oblivion, it doesn't really matter anyways.

Everyone is entitled to religious or spiritual beliefs, and to gain comfort from their particular views on life after death. In your case, however, you acknowledge that your particular belief is a delusional one. It would be very unfortunate if your decision to suicide was in any way influenced by the misconception that it was a chance to reset things. That would be similarly unfortunate as someone suiciding due to a crushing debt that they weren't told had actually been waived, or who suicided using a very painful method that they had been misled to believe was peaceful.
 
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WillOxyWork

WillOxyWork

Student
Jul 4, 2020
126
Everyone is entitled to religious or spiritual beliefs, and to gain comfort from their particular views on life after death. In your case, however, you acknowledge that your particular belief is a delusional one. It would be very unfortunate if your decision to suicide was in any way influenced by the misconception that it was a chance to reset things. That would be similarly unfortunate as someone suiciding due to a crushing debt that they weren't told had actually been waived, or who suicided using a very painful method that they had been misled to believe was peaceful.
Even if I can't try again, I still want to die. My life has been fucking shattered. I'm okay with eternal nothingness if it's just like before I was born. However, when I do die, I'll probably make some sort of prayer asking to be allowed to go back to where I fucked up, just so I could give myself some comfort as I depart.
 
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InaccessibleHour

InaccessibleHour

Student
Sep 1, 2018
143
Op I don't think that's delusional at all, well maybe it is if you think you know fully well that's the case and are betting on that being the case, but that doesn't sound like what's going on here. There is a concept called quantum immortality that essentially postulates that we can't actually ever die. It's not proven emperically per say but there are several anecdotes that can be found online and is a recorded phenomenon amongst some. This is one of the things that originally warded me off from CTB in the first place seeing that I didn't want to have to wake up in a psych ward no matter how well I carried out my method. I wouldn't mind QI so long as it didn't end up in me being a veggie, in a psych ward, or still with this disease in general.
Though even if QI exists, that doesn't mean you'll start before the point when things went downhill. So again it's a possibility that your "delusion" is actually reality but I wouldn't bet on it. Put it that way.

@autumnal I don't think that's the best way of putting it since that's implying that there's absolutely no chance that after death that happens, which there is. We don't know if it's a "misconception" that ctb is a way to redo things so I don't think it's comparable to ctbing over waived debt or dying via a painful method unknowing. I'm not saying that's the case for sure but the fact is, we don't know until we get there. It would be an obvious mistake to gamble on CTB solely in the hopes that's the case and would rather stay alive if that's not the case, but that doesn't seem to be OP's situation.
 
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WillOxyWork

WillOxyWork

Student
Jul 4, 2020
126
Op I don't think that's delusional at all, well maybe it is if you think you know fully well that's the case and are betting on that being the case, but that doesn't sound like what's going on here. There is a concept called quantum immortality that essentially postulates that we can't actually ever die. It's not proven emperically per say but there are several anecdotes that can be found online and is a recorded phenomenon amongst some. This is one of the things that originally warded me off from CTB in the first place seeing that I didn't want to have to wake up in a psych ward no matter how well I carried out my method. I wouldn't mind QI so long as it didn't end up in me being a veggie, in a psych ward, or still with this disease in general.
Though even if QI exists, that doesn't mean you'll start before the point when things went downhill. So again it's a possibility that your "delusion" is actually reality but I wouldn't bet on it. Put it that way.

@autumnal I don't think that's the best way of putting it since that's implying that there's absolutely no chance that after death that happens, which there is. We don't know if it's a "misconception" that ctb is a way to redo things so I don't think it's comparable to ctbing over waived debt or dying via a painful method unknowing. I'm not saying that's the case for sure but the fact is, we don't know until we get there. It would be an obvious mistake to gamble on CTB solely in the hopes that's the case and would rather stay alive if that's not the case, but that doesn't seem to be OP's situation.
Thanks for your reply. I've done some research into QI. It's an interesting theory, although what confuses me about it is how it would to apply to someone who's dying of old age. Would they just constantly be going to new realities where they stay alive 1 second longer? Or would they just restart their lives again?
 
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InaccessibleHour

InaccessibleHour

Student
Sep 1, 2018
143
That I'm not sure about. Maybe we all have a "set time" we're finally allowed to be free. I really hope this isn't the case. I'd like QI to be possible but not to keep respawning in this reality lol
 
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WillOxyWork

WillOxyWork

Student
Jul 4, 2020
126
Also just pulled this from the QI Wikipedia page:

Virtually all physicists and philosophers of science who have described it, especially in popularized treatments, underscore that it relies on contrived, idealized circumstances that may be impossible or exceedingly difficult to realize in real life, and that its theoretical premises are controversial even among supporters of the many-worlds interpretation. Thus, as cosmologist Anthony Aguirre warns, "[...] it would be foolish (and selfish) in the extreme to let this possibility guide one's actions in any life-and-death question."
 
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InaccessibleHour

InaccessibleHour

Student
Sep 1, 2018
143
Keep in mind that Wikipedia isn't the greatest source for anything metaphysical and hardcore rejects a lot of these theories. Though I do agree with the quote at the end, it shouldn't be something that guides our ultimate decision, no. Just something to think about.
 
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Cashewmilk

Cashewmilk

Specialist
Mar 10, 2020
352
I was actually just thinking about this lately... honestly I think anything can be possible, I mean why not? Just look at our entire existence, that's proof enough that crazy things can happen. I was more thinking about that we're constantly moving from one life to the next. Never really dying but our consciousness, the "I" feeling we have where we can picture ourselves in different bodies, I thought maybe that entity is immortal and restarts in another human. But we have no memory of our past life. It's basically what most of the world's religions talk about, like reincarnation and spirits. I'm mostly an atheist but I have no problem exploring other ideas. After all like I said, our existence is pretty strange already, so anything could be possible.
 
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autumnal

autumnal

Enlightened
Feb 4, 2020
1,950
[...]
@autumnal I don't think that's the best way of putting it since that's implying that there's absolutely no chance that after death that happens, which there is. We don't know if it's a "misconception" that ctb is a way to redo things so I don't think it's comparable to ctbing over waived debt or dying via a painful method unknowing. I'm not saying that's the case for sure but the fact is, we don't know until we get there. It would be an obvious mistake to gamble on CTB solely in the hopes that's the case and would rather stay alive if that's not the case, but that doesn't seem to be OP's situation.

From a scientific and rational perspective, in the absence of any evidence supporting it, it is therefore a misconception. The OP themselves also describes it as a 'fantasy/delusion', so that subjective aspect is important too in advising them not to rely upon it as a factor in making their decision to suicide.

Keep in mind that Wikipedia isn't the greatest source for anything metaphysical and hardcore rejects a lot of these theories. [...]

That's precisely because Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and relies upon proven or verified information. That's an encyclopedia working exactly as it should.
 
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InaccessibleHour

InaccessibleHour

Student
Sep 1, 2018
143
*materialist perspective. Maybe "scientific" but definitely not rational, as it's simply untrue that there is zero evidence supporting QI or many-worlds, etc.

And about Wikipedia, not really. It ignores and outright dismisses a lot of evidence for the metaphysical and paranormal and skews "proven and verified" information to favor materialist theories and, despite its claims of neutrality is absolutely not a neutral source.
 
autumnal

autumnal

Enlightened
Feb 4, 2020
1,950
*materialist perspective. Maybe "scientific" but definitely not rational, as it's simply untrue that there is zero evidence supporting QI or many-worlds, etc.

And about Wikipedia, not really. It ignores and outright dismisses a lot of evidence for the metaphysical and paranormal and skews "proven and verified" information to favor materialist theories and, despite its claims of neutrality is absolutely not a neutral source.

I'm sorry you seem to genuinely believe that about Wikipedia. Normally I wouldn't bother to debate it with you further, but this kind of typically pointless debate actually takes on some importance when it is peripherally related to someone's decision to commit suicide.

If you know of reputable sources which support the existence of the metaphysical or paranormal, you are more than welcome to edit Wikipedia yourself to include these.
 
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InaccessibleHour

InaccessibleHour

Student
Sep 1, 2018
143
I guess I should disclaim that I do not want OP or anyone on this site to make a life-or-death decision based on whether the metaphysical/paranormal exists or not. I got somewhat heated in the last post and exaggerated my belief that there is definitive proof regarding these topics. I will however maintain that there are endless anecdotes (yes, I know, anecdotes bad) on the Internet about experiences that have several similarities to one another. Would it not stand to reason that even if some anecdotes aren't accurate accounts of the experience in question, some jump to conclusions, and some are completely made up, at least some out of those given an adequately large number of them are legitimate accounts accurate to the original experience that aren't explainable by current materialist theories?

I also forgot to mention last post: even if there was absolutely no proof of the metaphysical/paranormal, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and it would not change the objective fact either way. Yes, this does mean that there is still the burden of proof for those trying to argue for the existence of such phenomena, but we need to keep in mind that it won't chance objective fact either way, and all that is left then is a decision between "I won't believe in the metaphysical/paranormal until there is more definitive proof of such" and "I will have faith in the existence of such because there's still a chance it exists", or for some "I've had personal experiences/have read and heard of both anecdotes and scientific studies supporting the existence of the metaphysical/paranormal, so I choose to believe in it". Both are valid stances to take, I happen to fall in the latter and you happen to fall in the former. Nothing wrong with that, as long as we don't make decisions of morality in the faith of either position.
(This is mainly why I thought it wasn't a fair judgement to definitively label OP's idea as a "misconception" and compare it to cases such as a waived debt when we know for a fact the truth objectively speaking differs from what the person who we're talking about thinks. We're not as sure about the non-existence of QI or such.)

Now let me put in another little note here: I have not heard of any experience report where QI resulted in the experiencer being transported to a time "before their life went haywire". I have heard of a quantum suicide where someone attempted to shoot themself, immediately snapped into a third-person perspective as the attempt succeeded, and then "woke up" to find the gun had jammed. So especially in OP's specific situation, I cannot recommend believing in that specific notion, as it seems rather dangerous. This is not to say that is impossible, but I will once again emphasize that no life-or-death decision should be made following these sorts of ideas that don't currently have any definitive proof. We can have our beliefs, but given there's no physical evidence of such (and there may never be due to a variety of reasons) we should abstain from that. If that's the only or main reason for one's suicide, I say that we're all going to die anyway at some point (or if QI is real and happens even to people of old age when they "just keep living a few seconds longer", that may be another way to find out) so we can wait until that happens, as if there's no need to stop suffering then there's no need to cause it for the ones we cherish in our lives.

Regarding Wikipedia: I'll admit that I haven't researched much on paranormal topics on Wikipedia, partially because of my belief that Wikipedia presents biased material regarding a few things, including the metaphysical/paranormal. I personally wouldn't bother with editing it to include such sources, as I'm sure it would get removed for one reason or another. Although it might make for a fun experiment, there's probably people who've attempted before and have found the exact same thing.

It appears we'll have to agree to disagree on these topics, and as you said there's no real point in debating any further as it's unlikely either of us would be able to change each other's viewpoints on it anyway. Now that I've made it clear that I do not want our discussion, or any of these types of discussions, to influence anyone's decision to make suicide, including the OP's, I think we're good. Though, if you have any comments on what I've said, feel free to reply. I also hope you have a nice day and, most importantly, am wishing you the best in your future!
 
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C

Checkout2

Member
Jun 25, 2020
52
I keep on holding on to this fantasy/delusion that if I ctb maybe I can wake up before everything went downhill and try again. My world was shattered with a careless mistake that permanently damaged my health, and I'd do anything to go back to fix it. And if I'm wrong, and death is just eternal oblivion, it doesn't really matter anyways.
Me too
 

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