I hate the assumption that suicide is Illogical

[SuicidalSheep]

There's this idea that the only reason anyone could ever want to commit suicide or die is because they are mentally ill and are suffering too much, and that because they are mentally ill, they can't make the rational decision to.

First of all, just because some people do it on impulse doesn't mean there aren't very calculated suicides from these people that simply did a cost benifit analysis of the situation they're in, especially with problems that won't get better. Suffering is everywhere, it's not balanced and plenty of times it is not rationally worth it.

But honestly, even if there was very little suffering, if you could have a painless instant death and didn't have programming for survival insinct, I think if anything the desire to live as a concious being is irrational. I don't think you need to suffer to want to commit suicide at all.

Nobody asked to exist. If you will die and forget everything, and so will the rest, what logical reason would you have for staying here? Legit nothing really has a logical reason to exist yet it's assumed that continueing to live is inherently the most sane and rational, and when you die you won't know you're dead anyway. Even if you believe in the existence of some kinda god.. why does that god exist? You could go on forever, there would still be no logical end point. The only way it could make sense is if there was something beyond our own capability of understanding we don't know that makes life worth it, but ehm, we have no rational reason to believe this so itd be pure gambling on something unlikely.

 

[ksp]

i agree with everything you said: life is irrational, and wanting to die is rational

if anything the desire to live as a concious being is irrational

everything points to the fact that staying alive is irrational - we are alive only because of instincts (main one is the survival instinct), so there is nothing rational about wanting to be alive

the opposite is true for wanting to die - all rationality goes against survival instinct: suicide is rational

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

We are not driven by logic decisions but by programmed instincts. Logic is only a means to an end. The logic not to kill oneselfe is not in our brains it is the superoridinate logic of evolution. Only tendencies to exist will reproduce, therefore you will not find tendencies not to exist. Interestingly the motor of evolution is to dice again and again, what means that we have to disappear after a short period of life. We can act against our biological mission, we can have no children and even kill ourselfes prior to reproduction, this is only software. But we cannot decide not to age and not to die eventually, this is hardware in each cell of our body. This inherent weakness of survival instinct and the complexity of or brain opens the door for insanity up to suicide.

 

[absolomonisgone]

There's this idea that the only reason anyone could ever want to commit suicide or die is because they are mentally ill and are suffering too much, and that because they are mentally ill, they can't make the rational decision to.

First of all, just because some people do it on impulse doesn't mean there aren't very calculated suicides from these people that simply did a cost benifit analysis of the situation they're in, especially with problems that won't get better. Suffering is everywhere, it's not balanced and plenty of times it is not rationally worth it.

But honestly, even if there was very little suffering, if you could have a painless instant death and didn't have programming for survival insinct, I think if anything the desire to live as a concious being is irrational. I don't think you need to suffer to want to commit suicide at all.

Nobody asked to exist. If you will die and forget everything, and so will the rest, what logical reason would you have for staying here? Legit nothing really has a logical reason to exist yet it's assumed that continueing to live is inherently the most sane and rational, and when you die you won't know you're dead anyway. Even if you believe in the existence of some kinda god.. why does that god exist? You could go on forever, there would still be no logical end point. The only way it could make sense is if there was something beyond our own capability of understanding we don't know that makes life worth it, but ehm, we have no rational reason to believe this so itd be pure gambling on something unlikely.

My thoughts. Thank you for saying what in my head and want to say. Good

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's just a peculiar argument really because surely it's about preference. Some people- for whatever reason just don't like life. To the point that they want to end it. Is it a mental illness not to like something?!!

That said- I guess depression and mental illness CAN be a contributing factor. Still- even to concede that- surely- it OUGHT to be treated like other illnesses. Is there a cure? How effective is the cure? Is the patient willing to undergo the treatment necessary? For how long? What is their realistic chances for recovery?

 

[SuicidalSheep]

It's just a peculiar argument really because surely it's about preference. Some people- for whatever reason just don't like life. To the point that they want to end it. Is it a mental illness not to like something?!!

That said- I guess depression and mental illness CAN be a contributing factor. Still- even to concede that- surely- it OUGHT to be treated like other illnesses. Is there a cure? How effective is the cure? Is the patient willing to undergo the treatment necessary? For how long? What is their realistic chances for recovery?

It's really strange and honestly, selfish and short sighted that society reacts this way. In anything in life you are allowed to simply dislike it and stop. Hate a video game? Nobody forces you to keep playing it. But merely mentioning that you dislike life can offend people, even though you nevwr asked for it, other people made you. So it'd be like someone forcing you to play Dark Souls and then if you don't like it or worse want to stop playing they get angry. All this despite how life is full of unfairness, uncertainty and suffering. But even without those things you may just find it dull.


People that don't like life are less likely to survive or reproduce and that also means less of those genes are likely to spread. It seems like people confirmation bias that something has to be "wrong" if you don't like life because normally peoples programming make them like it or at least want to live and find meaning. Even if you can do that this doesn't mean you actually will find it worth it, you may still dislike life in general, or dislike your own life in particular.

As you say, mental illness CAN be a huge contributor. But how long are you willing to hold someone hostage who isn't going to get better? If I can't feel the joy I want to feel, why would I stick around? And why would I suddenly be unable to make decisions?

Now here's the thing. Just because something is irrational doesn't mean it doesn't have merit. If people like life and wanna live that's cool. But they paint this as rational and thus "good". And then they paint someone not wanting to live as irrational and thus "bad" even though they're entirely different concepts.

 

[OutOfTheVoid]

i think 'rationality' and 'logic' are made up illusions anyway. like you seem to say, everything is 'irrational' or 'illogical'. i'd even go further and say that suicide, like any other decision or action, is 'irrational', just no moreso than living is. i dont care if someone's reasons to ctb are 'rational' or 'logical' or if theyre 'irrational' or 'illogical'. i just dont judge either way and i dont put them in some hierarchy where some suicides are justified and others arent.

 

[BlackWednesday]

People have this inbuilt assumption that life is always preferable to death and from that's where the perspective of suicide being ilogical comes from. They also tend to look at the future with rose tinted glasses ("things will get better") so tend to underestimate future suffering and assume that people only kill themselves due to "temporary problems". The see suicide as irrational because they can't look past their own irrational biases

 

[SilentSadness]

Suicide could never be illogical, death removes the inevitability of suffering which makes it always a positive. The people who say it's illogical are not logical themselves and lack basic understanding. I so wish to die peacefully, there would never be pain or suffering ever again. I hope we all find peace.

 

[SuicidalSheep]

Suicide could never be illogical, death removes the inevitability of suffering which makes it always a positive. The people who say it's illogical are not logical themselves and lack basic understanding. I so wish to die peacefully, there would never be pain or suffering ever again. I hope we all find peace.

The irony is that everyone dies anyway. It's inescapable. It just prolongs the inevitable because of some biological programming. Yet they don't even want to make sure those deaths are peaceful either.

 

[FuneralCry]

I view suicide as being the most rational option in this hellish world, as this world is so unpredictable and uncertain with no limit as to how much we can suffer. Life in itself is something harmful but nobody can be harmed by death, and to die solves all problems anyway.

There could never be anything bad or wrong with choosing to exit as of course death is all that we are destined for, so at least to me it would make sense wanting to take control over when I die, to prevent the inevitable deterioration from age where I will inevitably suffer a lot. It's undeniable that life in itself is the true problem, so therefore the wish to exist is what is irrational as such a thing is centred around delusions. Pro life people are in denial, they don't wish to accept that death is simply preferable to staying here so they tell lies about suicide being irrational.