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Davey36000

Davey36000

I'm not the dog in the picture
Jun 12, 2023
321
They aren't outside of their bodies in the literal sense. Just as how some people may experience out-of-body moments when high on certain drugs or when going through severe dissociation but you would treat it as though they are actually outside of their bodies, the same applies to NDEs. This isn't evidence of our bodies not being real or the "ultimate form". You are taking a bunch of subjective accounts at face value.

Meditation practitioners also aren't qualified to say anything about this. They aren't researchers. Them maintaining awareness at the beginning of sleep stages doesn't really prove anything. You could argue that their results are due to changes in brain activity rather than it being due to some sort of spiritual nonsense. Just as how we are able to change our brain activity in such a way in order to accomplish certain tasks, such as the Stroop task (which involves your brain needing to exert control in order to keep you from automatically responding in the most routine way (reading the word) by having the prefrontal cortex exert control to favour colour representations and make them more salient in order to win out the disagreement between whether you should read the word or name the colour), you could argue that the effects of mediation likely stem from its impact on brain activity. An aspect of an executive region (the prefrontal cortex) is its ability to control other brain areas physiologically. Meditation, I'm assuming, likely affects cognitive control (also known as executive function), leading to the whole sleep thing that you are talking about.

So again, no it isn't "impossible to believe that the gelatinous blob could give rise to consciousness".

A.I. isn't a fucking brain. The two things are completely different from one another. Us taking inspiration from certain aspects of the brain when creating it doesn't mean that it functions in the exact same ways that a brain does. Just as how solar panels don't work in the exact same way that photosynthesis does despite us taking inspiration from it.
Answer sincerely.

Do you really believe you are: nails, skin, veins, bones, pus, feces, urine, liver, kidneys, lungs, brain, nervous system, hairs, eyes, teeth... And so on?

I guess if we wanted to say, poetically speaking, I guess you could say you are these things (a very macabre poetry, but...).

These things are in your body, but you are not your body.

You could say, if you were to lose an arm or a leg, we tend to say "I lost a part of me/of myself", but it is a matter of speech. And yet, your mind remains completely unaffected! (Outside of depression which could set in if you were to lose a limb)


We are the perceiver of all this, the witness, the conscious being.

Remember that science is what we know, as human beings, and there is a lot that was don't know, and we don't know what we don't know!!!

Even recently source just discovered a new type of microorganism living in our body which was not known until recently!

Also sciences is nit always 100% correct. Sometimes theories are wrong and they are later disproven.

I'm not coming from a religious point of view, but from what is factually real.


While we can say we are out bodies, ultimately this is not really true. The body is the hardware (the brain is part of the body too, not separate), the soul/mind/consciousness is the software.
 
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nothing0000

nothing0000

New Member
Oct 16, 2024
1
kinda unrelated bad message to "stop having kids".

it is biologically imperative in a healthy and natural relationship to reproduce and create joyful lives for your offspring

your failure to find such a connection is separate to pleasure you can find with existence, feels pretty bias and close minded
U defi shouldnt have kids :)
 
EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
3,764
Answer sincerely.

Do you really believe you are: nails, skin, veins, bones, pus, feces, urine, liver, kidneys, lungs, brain, nervous system, hairs, eyes, teeth... And so on?

I guess if we wanted to say, poetically speaking, I guess you could say you are these things (a very macabre poetry, but...).

These things are in your body, but you are not your body.

You could say, if you were to lose an arm or a leg, we tend to say "I lost a part of me/of myself", but it is a matter of speech. And yet, your mind remains completely unaffected! (Outside of depression which could set in if you were to lose a limb)


We are the perceiver of all this, the witness, the conscious being.

Remember that science is what we know, as human beings, and there is a lot that was don't know, and we don't know what we don't know!!!

Even recently source just discovered a new type of microorganism living in our body which was not known until recently!

Also sciences is nit always 100% correct. Sometimes theories are wrong and they are later disproven.

I'm not coming from a religious point of view, but from what is factually real.


While we can say we are out bodies, ultimately this is not really true. The body is the hardware (the brain is part of the body too, not separate), the soul/mind/consciousness is the software.
Yes, I really believe that I'm pus, skin, nails, and so on. Those things are a part of my body, thus they belong to me. Every part of me looks and acts in a particular manner based partly on my own genetics, this extending beyond just outward appearances and even impacting psychological aspects of myself.

Also, no. Saying that you lost a limb means that you've lost part of yourself isn't a figure of speech. It literally means you've lost part of yourself in the physical sense.

Honestly, I feel like you aren't addressing any of the points that I've made and are instead just lecturing your opinion at me. How does any of what you are saying disprove any of my points? The "science is not always correct" shit isn't a fucking argument either. Science not always being correct doesn't magically mean that everything that you are saying is correct and I'm the one who is wrong. You have yet to even provide any actual evidence for your claims, instead relying purely on speculation about meditation and NDEs. You aren't being factual in the slightest bit, tbh. Nothing that you have said so far is factual. It rather just reflects a lack of knowledge of what is being talked about.
 
depthss

depthss

wikihow
Dec 12, 2023
193
i relate to most of this, i hate being stuck to my body. i dont eat as much anymore, i just never want to now, its easy to ignore hunger, but i just wish i didnt feel it, it reminds me im alive. i hate most things about being alive
 
yellowjester

yellowjester

Specialist
Jun 2, 2024
342
Having kids is fucking stupid for a large majority of the population.
You're taking a lot of things for granted. There wouldn't even be a functioning society if everyone decided to stop having kids. Also, you're disrespecting all the parents of this forum (I'm sure there are a few) by making these statements, which is not appropriate.
 
theolivanderroach

theolivanderroach

but, what ends when the symbols shatter?
Sep 20, 2024
137
kinda unrelated bad message to "stop having kids".

it is biologically imperative in a healthy and natural relationship to reproduce and create joyful lives for your offspring

your failure to find such a connection is separate to pleasure you can find with existence, feels pretty bias and close minded
8/10 rage bait
 
Davey36000

Davey36000

I'm not the dog in the picture
Jun 12, 2023
321
Yes, I really believe that I'm pus, skin, nails, and so on. Those things are a part of my body, thus they belong to me. Every part of me looks and acts in a particular manner based partly on my own genetics, this extending beyond just outward appearances and even impacting psychological aspects of myself.

Also, no. Saying that you lost a limb means that you've lost part of yourself isn't a figure of speech. It literally means you've lost part of yourself in the physical sense.

Honestly, I feel like you aren't addressing any of the points that I've made and are instead just lecturing your opinion at me. How does any of what you are saying disprove any of my points? The "science is not always correct" shit isn't a fucking argument either. Science not always being correct doesn't magically mean that everything that you are saying is correct and I'm the one who is wrong. You have yet to even provide any actual evidence for your claims, instead relying purely on speculation about meditation and NDEs. You aren't being factual in the slightest bit, tbh. Nothing that you have said so far is factual. It rather just reflects a lack of knowledge of what is being talked about.
Well if you believe you are a body and you are blood, pus and so on, then there really is no point continuing with this conversation. But at the end of the day is just belief.

Doesn't science say that energy can't be destroyed, only transferred? Google "conservation of energy".

What do you think makes it possible for things to be set in motion, including moving a limb?

Other than a few things like intention and so on, energy is what enables you to move your body.

What do you think the smallest units of matter essential are or are made of? Energy.

So once your body dies, that energy doesn't really disappear.

You can just Google all these things or ask AI. I'm not paid to convince anyone. If you believe that you will cease to exist when you die, that is only belief and it will be proven wrong at the time of death.

If you beliefs that your body will die but you still essentially continues on in one way or another, you will be correct.

By the way a piece of meat or could never in a million years develop something called thought, emotions, consciousness. If you believe you are a body (which made of stuff like bones and skin), then in no way you could ever be a conscious/sentient being.

We have words like "soul", "spirit", "mind", "consciousness" and so on, for a reason.
 
EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
3,764
Well if you believe you are a body and you are blood, pus and so on, then there really is no point continuing with this conversation. But at the end of the day is just belief.

Doesn't science say that energy can't be destroyed, only transferred? Google "conservation of energy".

What do you think makes it possible for things to be set in motion, including moving a limb?

Other than a few things like intention and so on, energy is what enables you to move your body.

What do you think the smallest units of matter essential are or are made of? Energy.

So once your body dies, that energy doesn't really disappear.

You can just Google all these things or ask AI. I'm not paid to convince anyone. If you believe that you will cease to exist when you die, that is only belief and it will be proven wrong at the time of death.

If you beliefs that your body will die but you still essentially continues on in one way or another, you will be correct.

By the way a piece of meat or could never in a million years develop something called thought, emotions, consciousness. If you believe you are a body (which made of stuff like bones and skin), then in no way you could ever be a conscious/sentient being.

We have words like "soul", "spirit", "mind", "consciousness" and so on, for a reason.
Consciousness isn't energy. It's a byproduct of neurobiological mechanisms. Once you are dead it is gone. Also, your body doesn't just disappear. When you die your body decomposes. As a result, even going by your logic, it doesn't work. It seems as though you have forgotten that energy can be transformed. For example, kinetic energy can be converted into thermal energy and solar panels convert solar energy into electrical energy. If we wanted to get into it, "conscious energy" could be argued to be transformed into some form of non-conscious energy after death.

You know, for a guy who claims "there is no point in continuing this conversation", you really seem to want to continue this conversation considering the fact that you are still trying to argue about this. You also seem to be hell-bent on selling me on your beliefs despite saying otherwise and I'm sorry, but it isn't working.

Also, a random piece of meat isn't even alive. Something, such as a raw piece of steak, comes from a dead animal. Of course, it's not fucking sentient in of itself. However, it did still come from what was once a sentient being. Consciousness stems from the brain at the end of the day, so I do not get the point you are trying to make here. Were you trying to address the whole "lose yourself" thing or something? Maybe I should have addressed it better. An aspect of self-consciousness involves awareness of one's body and bodily self-consciousness has to do with awareness of one's body in both its physical and subjective forms. Loss of a limb can lead to issues pertaining to this type of consciousness, which is why many amputees report having issues with things like phantom limbs. We can also go beyond this example and talk about the ways in which our physical form influences self-consciousness by talking about the rubber hand illusion. This illusion involves having a participant place one hand inside a box and having the experimenter place a rubber hand in front of them, in its place, and then start stroking it. After a while, participants report being able to actually feel the strokes, despite the hand being stroked not belonging to them. Essentially, this involves manipulating one's bodily self-consciousness (in this case, bodily ownership) leading to the brain treating the rubber hand as part of the self. This likely results from visuo-tactile conflict. In trying to integrate the visual and tactile sensations, the brain ends up mistakenly treating the rubber hand as part of the body. Areas of the brain, such as the ventral premotor cortex, have been found to be involved in this illusion.

If I'm being honest, everything you have been saying so far feels as though you are just grasping at straws. It's like you are throwing shit at the wall in hopes that something will stick and it is not sticking. None of what you are saying has any evidence to support it. It feels as though you are basically just rambling on about a bunch of nonsense in the hopes of stumping me or something.

In my opinion, consciousness stems from biology. Your consciousness is a byproduct of the brain and this is supported by research that demonstrates that certain areas of the brain seem to be involved in it.

Anyway, I'm not going to bother with it anymore. I've addressed what I've addressed and this conversation is now actually over.
 
D

diseasedPOS

Member
Jun 17, 2023
46
You're taking a lot of things for granted. There wouldn't even be a functioning society if everyone decided to stop having kids. Also, you're disrespecting all the parents of this forum (I'm sure there are a few) by making these statements, which is not appropriate.
Point taken that as written, some could feel insulted. Not the intent. The comment was more from a space that more isn't always better, especially as it relates to population. Shouldn't the quality of the lives lived be the metric to optimize, not the quantity of lives lived?

And to that end - I think how well "functioning" society is could be quite debatable.

The presence or absence of kids is abstractly, not directly, related to society's ability to function, namely by proving replacement labor. If that replacement labor is being deployed in non-sensical ways, wouldn't a poorly functioning society continue operating as such?
 
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