I feel like online "accountability" culture is a deeply bleak group mentality that is unconsciously "designed" to drive vulnerable people to suicide.

[oneirataxia]

I hate the word "cancel culture" because it feels very outdated and reactionary, but just bear with me here. When I see a very young person get dogpiled and subjected to this kind of treatment, 8 times out of 10 their so-called "crime" is usually an obvious byproduct of mental illness, immaturity, ignorance, an abusive upbringing, or some combination of two or more of these. Very rarely is it genuinely an act of genuine and legitimate evil. The consequences are grisly, to say the least. Complete ostracization from the person's communities and social groups, falling-outs with every single one of their friends, continued gossiping, othering and un-personing that never expires and is destined to go on and on and on, presumably forever. This is very unnerving to me when you remove all online depersonalization and mysticism and try to look at the target of this mentality for the person they usually are: a mentally ill, likely socially isolated and lonely, impulsive young person. Far too much over the last 7 or 8 years have I seen people of this "demographic" be talked about so lowly, with a similar attitude someone may have when striking down a murderer or rapist.

What's insidious about it is that unlike plain-old bullying, there is a very enticing "morally righteous" aspect to it that bypasses commonly-held, worldly values about respect and forgiveness, and young people feel morally justified to create some kind of Lord of the Flies-esque self-governance that can take away support networks at the drop of a hat for any perceived stepping out of line. It bothers me and I deeply worry about people who are even younger than me. A lot of the time, the Internet is likely these people's only real support network, which makes this kind of "problem-solving" especially evil in my opinion, if the wrongdoing doesn't match up to the consequences. The only people I've ever been able to relate to have been online, and I am now deeply hesitant to make online friends seeing the rise of this cult mentality. Every single person on le Reddit or something nowadays will never stop incessantly preaching to a choir, and I am always left annoyed. Something very common I notice is that many of them will not even be spurred on into arguing by an apparent stimulus, they'll just argue against these incredibly online and incredibly esoteric imaginary generalizations and imaginary opinions held by imaginary people. You have never actually cared about half of this terminally online sociopolitical talk, it's just what's been spoonfed to you by algorithms. Does anyone else feel deeply bothered by this?

 

[amy joyce]

Oh gosh, what a horrible environment that sounds like. I'm like so happy that my younger years didn't involve any kind of social media let alone any that was so cruel! Such as the one you described. The real world is bad enough and I know some people take social media very seriously and to such a degree that they'd hurt themselves over some nasty words, let alone dog piling and intentionally disregarded by everyone in whatever platform they favored. It reminds me of the current political climate which doesn't care about anything but which side one takes, if it isn't the "right" one you might as well jump ship. They do let people go. Me, I could care less but I know it's hard for many others including regular life.

I think there w ill always be "cults" and this new style of interacting hasn't been denied. In your title though I was struck by the word "designed" because I'm a believer that much of what has happened has been done intentionally by big people with power and a shit load of money who want much of the lower classes to just disappear. I believe that to be a goal so it wouldn't surprise me that if this phenomenon wasn't occurring randomly that it's been planned and people are being paid to set it up and ensure people undergo a great deal of stress from it. Let's face it, our food and meds are being tampered with (to a huge extent in the state) and then there was covid which I believe most certainly was designed to take out as many old people as possible so govt's wouldn't have to pay for them. Those insidious bastards! So yeah, I'm with you on this. And if I see it and have time to jump in I'll call it out, etc. Maybe not for what it "is" or I think it "is" but at least for being nasty, destructive actions that can hurt people.

 

[jackiebrown67]

I agree with original poster. Social media has a tendency to encapsulate you in a bubble and it can be difficult to cope with the groupthink. I appreciate your post, at least you are awake and notice.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Social media can be such a toxic environment. I do feel so relieved to be old enough not to have grown up with it. And, I do feel so sorry for young people trying to navigate their way through life alongside it.

I hadn't actually even heard of that phenomena- to be honest. In part, maybe because I've abandoned social media for years plus- I'm not in the age demographic where that would be noticed- thakfully.

Of course, I've heard of online bullying and people targetting others annonymously and brutally. I do understand what you're saying- that two wrongs don't make a right. That ganging up on the original person may not help them at all. That there are very likely reasons they are targetting others to begin with.

There again- I suppose it depends on just what that original person is doing- as to whether it can be considered malicious. There have been plenty of examples where people have stalked others, exploited and embarassed them- sharing embarassing pictures, taken up long- term and brutal bullying campaigns. It's not really surprising that some of the victims of that will be tempted to retaliate.

I doubt the psychological affects of being bullied online by someone trying to hide behind annonymity are that great. How can that person even know whether they are being bullied by a lonely, frustrated teenager or- someone they actually know?

Obviously, it's not going to help that original 'bully' to then be persecuted and bullied in turn by multiple others but- what do you think they should do instead? If they haven't taken it so far as to have committed a crime- the police won't be interested. Even when people have committed crimes- police have been slow to act.

Would a strongly worded appeal to these people- even a suggestion they need and deserve therapy- stop them in their tracks? Presumably, they get something from harassing other people. Will they stop if they are asked nicely to?

Maybe I'be misinterpreted the post though. I'm not entirely sure what examples of people you are refering to to begin with- just how extreme their original behaviour is. Obviously- if they are just acting more weirdly than others- it's outright bullying to target them. If they have their own little bullying campaign going on though- that's obviously wrong and- it will affect the people they are targetting. That also clearly needs to stop so- how do you stop them? Is simply calling them out once enough? It's not to support a dogpile attack necessarily and- definitely not long- term. But- it surely needs to be unpleasant/ uncomfortable enough for them in return- to make them stop.

 

[iguazo falls]

i've grown up chronically online on most of the typical gen z platforms from left to right. i don't think its 100% intentional but it really pains me to see people around me spend a lot of time arguing online or engaging fiercely and seriously with something that isn't a big deal or is confined to fiction. i'd call it induced moral scrupulosity. i've deleted all of my social media because i don't feel like being on a list for not agreeing with a really overreaching and puritan opinion. i don't like talking to some people because while i understand where they're coming from and support the general intent, i feel like stating my opinion would make them think i support the OPPOSITE of what they are intending instead of taking what i say as it is. i don't feel like it is me being anxious either, because i've witnessed people lecturing and banning a minor from an all-ages discord server for disclosing they were being abused but did not hate their abuser. instead of offering help, they were lectured about their opinion on their abuser. so does that mean they support abuse and are toxic, or does it mean they simply are in a situation not easily escapable, and have (and will probably continue to have) complicated thoughts and feelings about it? that particular incident hit hard for me because i feel similar for those who have hurt me in the past (in that they were in the wrong and i don't want them hurting others, but they also were the only kind person toward me when i needed it. i actually don't want them to be tortured 24/7 like my friends want, i just want reform) and i realised that the only reason i was still friends with some people was that i just never disclosed much about myself and my inner world. i was just invited by a friend to that discord server and had little to do with it, but for a server centered around a nothingburger general commentary/entertainment youtuber, there was always drama. they had 2-3 channels just for "discourse"/hot takes and whatever too and people would get pissy over shit like "i don't like dogs".

i share your concern about algorithms too. i empathise with those affected though because as a teen i got really sucked into them, until i just quit most things. its just so sad seeing someone genuinely stress the fuck out over an instagram comment though or when i see people treat doxxing as a casual thing thats OK to do if someone ships something you don't like. on the flipside, outside of these purity spirals, there's people who make it their mission to be as offensive and terrible as possible, and its the same except people pride themselves over the opposite. the internet has always been dangerous, but i feel like any general community has become so hostile or inhuman (perhaps literally with bots).

there are very few platforms left online worth engaging with IMO.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

Honestly, the internet and subsequent communities were far better when it was harder to access them. Posting a reply on an old school style forum, setting up a profile, etc took a bit more effort than modern social media, which has taken shape in such a way that pretty much everybody can use it. I think there was a particular demographic of people who gravitated towards the internet during that time, perhaps people with nerdier hobbies or interests. Plus before smartphones, internet usage was pretty much restricted to PCs, which meant that there wasn't this document every aspect of one's life digitally, or make value judgements over miniscule arguments terminally online culture like there is now, because it was pretty impossible to spend most of your life online unless you were a hikkikomori/NEET.

I don't think the internet now has the same sort of cohesiveness. Nearly everyone on the planet, save for some people out in the provinces who don't have access to technology in general, has used the internet at some point in their lives now. Many people, from all walks of life, are now daily users due to how accessible the internet became from the advent of smartphones. Couple that with bad moderation on most social media platforms, and it's a surefire way to get reactive, tribalist behaviour with very little sense of community. The style of communication favoured on the internet now is short, whatever springs to mind reactionary posts rather than longer, thought out dialogues and this shows in how people just repeat buzzwords constantly to try and "own" someone in a Twitter/X battle.

I also think this is terrible for kids and young people in general. Whenever I was a kid, we had our own designated online spaces and virtual worlds, like old flash game sites, club penguin, etc that made sure people couldn't engage in such vitrol-fueled conversations. While it wasn't perfect, it was infinitely better than what we have now. There is a serious lack of empathy in general, but online where people can hide beyond a veil of anonymity, the problem becomes even more dire.

Ever since COVID times, I have also noticed this problem becoming worse and worse. The algorithms used on social media now are designed to fuel rage bait and engagement, no matter how upsetting this is for the user. For example, I kept getting recommended posts about very invasive and triggering procedures or involuntary detainment in psychiatric wards despite me flagging them multiple times as uninteresting content/content I don't want to see. Within these posts, there were tons of people just dog pilling and attacking the original posters who were just venting about poor treatment in these settings, with one sentence gotchas. Where has the compassion and empathy gone, if there was even any to start with?

I agree with you it's a major cesspool. I wish so much wasn't online and that nearly every aspect of life now didn't require usage of the internet. Real life communications are way less cold than the bs happening on social media.

 

[starboy2k]

the best thing ive done for myself was to stop expecting accountability from the ones who preach about it the most……you will never get it from them. NEVER!

 

[gonnaAbstract]

Thank you for talking about this. My biggest fear is getting cancelled for my incel past. People are so ruthless, they don't try to understand what it's like in your shoes, what it's like to be mentally ill and terminally online with nobody in your life who truly supports you, surrounded by misandry, surrounded by people who constantly invalidate you and dismiss your problems. They don't understand how easy it is to fall for the cognitive distortions that incels fall for. But these people will say "It doesn't excuse your misogyny, once an incel always an incel". They treat you like you're as bad as the incels who commit violent crimes, when you're just a lost autistic ball of trauma trying desperately to get your emotional needs met, only for the world to throw all these gendered double standards at you and tell you how it's your fault you're struggling with all these things that incels struggle with. Did I choose a poor outlet to try to deal with these things? Yes. Was I wrong in my interpretation of the world and of women? Yes. But that shouldn't be a death sentence. Also, they often call you an incel before you actually become one just for talking about being undesirable, which is what happened with me.