Venting I don't owe society any worker kids

[ijustwishtodie]

Society is so annoying. They have a slave mentality. Yet they force us to pop out kids to them for almost free and pay for them till they can slave away for 45 years making some rich dude even richer.

Nah man. No thank you. I ain't having kids. Breaking the cycle. Antinatalism is the correct solution to life

 

[Hotsackage]

I partially agree, they pretend to give a shit unless it actually happens to them

 

[WhiteRabbit]

That's fine, but who's forcing you? Are the baby making police showing up at your door?

 

[KillingPain267]

Society is so annoying. They have a slave mentality. Yet they force us to pop out kids to them for almost free and pay for them till they can slave away for 45 years making some rich dude even richer.

Nah man. No thank you. I ain't having kids. Breaking the cycle. Antinatalism is the correct solution to life

Damn right!

That's fine, but who's forcing you? Are the baby making police showing up at your door?

No, but peer pressure is still annoying. Plus, there are economic sanctions for single/childless people in some countries.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

No, but peer pressure is still annoying. Plus, there are economic sanctions for single/childless people in some countries.

I guess. I'm 39 and child free. I've never felt forced by society to have a kid. I don't get some of the tax benefits that parents get but oh well.

 

[dtkdave87]

I didn't know I would get to this point but now that I have my daughter is the absolute and only reason I haven't cbt yet. She is 5
But most likely I will

 

[KillingPain267]

I guess. I'm 39 and child free. I've never felt forced by society to have a kid. I don't get some of the tax benefits that parents get but oh well.

Unequal economic treatment is a type of force.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

Unequal economic treatment is a type of force.

I think in the US it's a $2000 tax credit. It's not worth having a kid you don't want for that.

 

[fleetingnight]

That's fine, but who's forcing you? Are the baby making police showing up at your door?

I'm not sure this is what OP is talking about, but restricted access to birth control/abortion is part of the problem too

 

[KillingPain267]

I think in the US it's a $2000 tax credit. It's not worth having a kid you don't want for that.

There is more to it. Children are a retirement plan, even if not directly always, as a society they are. Childfree people pay taxes for schools, daycare centers, kindergartens, etc. Some places, old childfree people have nobody to care for them. So in that sense, the fear of taking care of yourself when old is a type of psychological force that makes people, in some places, consider making children.

 

[astr4]

all it does is create more suffering in the world. maybe i lack empathy but unless you are ready to put your child consistently and constantly before yourself (most parents slip up, some of them won't even try) you just should not be a parent. there are no "days off." 99.99% of people are wholly unqualified by my standards.

yeah this is my own trauma talking, i had parents who "did their best" but totally forgot children had emotional needs! idiots who think food water shelter is good enough! people are delusional about their own capabilities, the dunning-kruger effect hard at work amongst parents, ha.

 

[jbear824]

That's fine, but who's forcing you? Are the baby making police showing up at your door?

No one yet.

but probably the people that want to force women to have babies. Prevent pregnant women from leaving their states, who want to get rid of no-fault divorce and who believe marital rape is a right that men have.

Probably those people.

 

[Z-A]

I also don't want any kids personally, as I believe it's unfair that they get no choice in being here.

But you have a choice not to contribute to reproduction. People can pressure or annoy you, but they can't force you to do anything.

So, you're free in this case.

 

[UKscotty]

I think its our obligation to make sure our kids are not slaves to the system.

Raise then to get top paying jobs and status. Encouraging them to learn and lead.

A depressed lazy parent is not the best to bring a child into this world I think. It just continues the cycle.

 

[landslide2]

I think its our obligation to make sure our kids are not slaves to the system.

Raise then to get top paying jobs and status. Encouraging them to learn and lead.

A depressed lazy parent is not the best to bring a child into this world I think. It just continues the cycle.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Should we take the parents into the shop and have the parent fixed right up so they can get to making top class workers/earners? This sounds like hate the player, love the game.

I didn't know I would get to this point but now that I have my daughter is the absolute and only reason I haven't cbt yet. She is 5
But most likely I will

Hang in there for your daughter. The little munchkin needs you. She doesn't need a perfect parent, just for you to be there as much as possible. The world has always been effed, Americans have even been part of that effing abroad and at home. People have always been suffering and people have always been fighting to make things better. You can try to join that fight if u look and maybe something is feasible. But fight for your daughter no matter what.

 

[Chinaski]

Society is so annoying.

i know right

 

[sugarb]

Unequal economic treatment is a type of force.

Sure, but I don't think tax breaks for people who're feeding extra mouths is all that unreasonable. People being childless for economic reasons ("I can't afford a family" / "I want to have free time and spending money") wouldn't be a thing if the economic benefits were big enough to outweigh the costs. As such it's not so much a foot on the scales as it is greasing the wheel

I mean, I don't get any trans scholarship money since I'm a dude, but l don't think I'm being pressured to transition. It just means it's less difficult than it could be for trans women to go to college. Missing out on that doesn't negatively effect me much if at all and my life is still a lot easier than it would be if I was trans

Not a perfect metaphor but you get what I mean

 

[lyfsoverrated]

Most people have kids for selfish reasons. Knew early on I never wanted to force having to exist onto someone. No regrets.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I think its our obligation to make sure our kids are not slaves to the system.

Yes, I agree and the only way to ensure that is to not give birth to any kids in the first place. Once you do give birth to someone, assuming you aren't a super rich individual (else I doubt you'd even be on SS), they are guaranteed to be slaves unless if they die before their first job (i.e. at a super young age).

Raise then to get top paying jobs and status. Encouraging them to learn and lead.

sigh, this is a common belief that most normies have in life which is absolutely delusional. The only way to be at the top is via generational wealth. Society and the elites have somehow managed to convince everybody that the normies can be at the top if they try hard enough. Yet that isn't true. Most of us will have to slave away from adulthood (or even before adulthood) to death/retirement age.

The best way to deal with the system is to not participate in it to begin with. There are two ways for those who are alive to not participate in the system. The two ways are to be a neet or to be dead. The former isn't possible for everybody due to financial issues and the latter is extremely difficult to do since euthanasia isn't wildly available. Therefore, it'd be better to prevent somebody from being alive as they wouldn't have to deal with this at all. Prevention (i.e. not giving birth to a kid) is better than cure (i.e. the aforementioned two ways to not participate in the system)

A depressed lazy parent is not the best to bring a child into this world I think. It just continues the cycle.

Any parent giving birth to any child continues the cycle, not just the "depressed lazy parent"

 

[heavyeyes]

I agree. I won't subject another human to this mess much less my own hypothetical children

They won't be able to force me if I'm sterilized. Fingers crossed I find a doctor who is willing and my insurance covers it

 

[Chinaski]

Please can we have a subforum for this it has absolutely nothing to do with suicide

 

[Ash]

I made a choice years ago to not have any children (and had the irreversible surgery to go with it).

Doesn't mean I hate children.

Doesn't mean I think everyone should make/be forced to make the same choice.

Doesn't mean I think every single human in existence should be forced to die.

It's called pro choice for a reason.

Because nobody is forcing anyone to have children, at least not in the west.

Except for the genuine victims of modern day slavery. Women who have been trafficked for the sex industry and have absolutely no control over their bodies or their lives, never mind their fertility.

 

[lamargue]

avoiding procreation at most leads to slight indignation and prejudice. normative values are spiteful and should be defied by those who would like to seek something higher

 

[Proteus]

tax benefits that parents get

Do those even make up for all one's child expenses, anyway?

 

[todiefor]

No one can literally force u to have kids, a subsidy given to other ppl who choose to have children isn't forcing U to have children…if u don't want kids just don't have them …

Also really if u hate society so much u can also choose to leave society. You can go live in the woods alone and not take or give and/or interact with society in anyway.

Yeah I wish the forum would stick more closely to the concept of being a "pro-choice" forum and not pro-death, or a bunch of other things. we get some people here hate the concept of having kids, and I support your right to voice and discuss this freely generally, but what does it have to do with the choice of killing your/ourselves as individuals? I get this is a somewhat related adjacent topic for some, but these days the forum is often about how everyone in the universe deserves to die or having children is the worst moral choice etc etc. can we just mostly stick to talking about our individual choices to ctb, not judging others or deciding for others what they do with their lives, but just our own ctb and concept of pro-choice suicide.

And before everyone says to just ignore, it is obviously extremely difficult to ignore all of it given how often a thread is started about non pro-choice related topics these days, and also I don't want to ignore anyone I like to see different opinions and beliefs that people have. Can we at least just sometimes continue on with existing threads of which there r already tens of thousands, start the thread in off-topic, or at least start a new one less frequently. Just a thought.

 

[heavyeyes]

Because nobody is forcing anyone to have children, at least not in the west.

This is incorrect. In the US since the fall of Roe v Wade in June 2022 there are nearly two dozen states that have banned abortion. Texas alone had an estimated 26,000 pregnancies resulting from rape since its total abortion ban in July 2022. If Project 2025 becomes a reality it will ban abortion and birth control nationwide. Republicans are truly trying to force women to be pregnant and have children against their will

 

[todiefor]

I

This is incorrect. In the US since the fall of Roe v Wade in June 2022 there are nearly two dozen states that have banned abortion. Texas alone had an estimated 26,000 pregnancies resulting from rape since its total abortion ban in July 2022. If Project 2025 becomes a reality it will ban abortion and birth control nationwide. Republicans are truly trying to force women to be pregnant and have children against their will

I totally agree with you and what's happening regarding anti abortion laws is absolutely horrendous. But this situation isn't what the OP is talking about regarding being forced to have children, they are more talking about not wanting to create more "wage slaves".

 

[Ash]

This is incorrect. In the US since the fall of Roe v Wade in June 2022 there are nearly two dozen states that have banned abortion. Texas alone had an estimated 26,000 pregnancies resulting from rape since its total abortion ban in July 2022. If Project 2025 becomes a reality it will ban abortion and birth control nationwide. Republicans are truly trying to force women to be pregnant and have children against their will

I am aware of that and it's horrifying. And to clarify, when I say I'm pro-choice, I mean that in every sense. Reproductive rights are the first thing I think about when I hear the phrase "pro choice".

When I wrote my post I was thinking about forced impregnation rather than termination. I should have clarified, though I was responding to the OP's suggestion of an assembly line of workers producing more workers who produce more workers.

 

[martinso67]

I guess. I'm 39 and child free. I've never felt forced by society to have a kid. I don't get some of the tax benefits that parents get but oh well.

The costs raising a child nowadays in a developed country are much higher than the tax money or childcare/family support financial benefits.
Also you have in addition to that an opportunity loss of earning more money are advancing in career/business.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

Do those even make up for all one's child expenses, anyway?

Nope, not even close.