Discussion I Don't Believe That Suicide Isn't Inherently Selfish, But Mine Will Be

[iamuncertain]

There is a rethoric around suicide which states that is is selfish. A belief that those who CTB chose the easy way out by ending their life. Easy because instead of facing their problems, they left the loved ones to grieve and question what they did wrong. Whilst I understand why this point of view exists, particularly among those affected by suicide but who have not been suicidal themselves.
In truth, I believe that in some cases, suicide isn't just not selfish, it's a selfless act. I've come to this conclusion by analysing the intention rather than the outcome. Often a person CTBs truly believing that either a) no one will care if they die or b)that they are holding their loved ones back and their death will release those they care about from that burden.
Obviously this is a twisted way of thinking, but suicidal people aren't exactly known for their rational thoughts processing. I don't think there is anything selfish about choosing to die so those you care about can no longer be burdened.

I'm not saying that their thoughts/beliefs are accurate, just that to the suicidal person the feeling like fact.

Now, into why my CTB is still selfish. I know that people will miss me. I know that my death will upset people who I care about. I've felt the loss of suicide myself, and I hate the fact that I am considering putting those I care about through that. However, I can't live like this anymore. It hurts, it's lonely and it's all too much
I could continue living the way I am, broken and afraid in order to protect those I love and care about. Instead I am choosing to CTB, knowing full well the negative impact it may have on those I care about.

 

[Jadotine]

I am in the same case, I know that there WILL be people who care about me. I don't know to what extent, but there will be hurt.

My desire to CTB is inherently selfish, and I will not say otherwise... However there are also other things into account in that case. Like, I lived extra years to 'satisfy' and 'not hurt' other people around me but it was at my expense. I would say that their desire for me to live was a bit selfish too (does that make sense?)

I try to distance myself from everyone as punishment and do some damage control. I try my best to hurt as little people as I can. I know its selfish, but I've been selfless for too long already so... can't people give us that at least?

 

[BillyBob]

What people do not realize is killing ones self takes lots of courage to do in the first place.
Personally I would never think of CTB as selfish at all. It is that persons choice to end it all for what ever reason they want.
My life has been constantly getting extended due to my family and how it would effect them.
It is just torture to keep living like this and there is a point where it has to end no matter what.

 

[BullsDon'tFly]

Oh I was waiting for this thread. I want to say that the two cases you brought up:
a) not having anyone that cares for you;
b) holding back loved ones while alive
I don't think are really counter-examples to the statement that CTB is selfish.

In case a) you have no other people to exert your final will on, so how can something be labeled selfish or not if there's only one person involved? Usually selfishness is "measured" by the effect of someone's action on others, this scenario doesn't allow for definition of selfishness imo.

In case b) I'm figuring someone that needs constant medical treatment, support, care by relatives, etc. In this case, it is far more likely that the loved ones will understand the decision to not suffer anymore. Yet, they will suffer from the loss, but wouldn't call it a selfish act, I agree.
If you're referring to someone who suffers from MH issues, unfortunately it is common to think for the majority of people, including close ones, that they can find the proper treatment one day and that psychological/emotional pain is more bearable than chronic physical pain... I don't agree with that, but that's how other people perceive the situation. I would still call it selfish to commit in this scenario, even if justified (more on this later).
If you're referring to "being a burden" to others... Well we have a lot of ways to cut ties with people without CTB. And deciding for the people around you if they CAN have your presence in their life is quite selfish.

That said, I don't agree with people saying CTB is an "easy way out", as you correctly brought up there are many. It is not easy at all to overcome SI, people that cross that boundary either have a really strong commitment or they're just so broken they can't sustain it anymore. Yes, life maybe would be even more difficult to endure (that's why someone resorts to something so drastic in the first place), but calling it "easy" is disrespectful for the people in pain that chose what seemed better for them, even if it was scary. In certain scenarios there's not an easy choice.

Lastly, and that's the consideration I anticipated before, I don't believe CTB being selfish means it is morally wrong. There are a lot of selfish acts that are justified.
I like to compare it to breaking up with someone: you know you will put your partner in a painful state, they will suffer from your decision, etc, but people still break up everyday and no one dares to ask "Why didn't you stay with [EX]? You made he/she/they suffer! You're selfish!". It is a selfish act, which is morally justified if you stop loving the other person, or if you don't feel good in the relationship anymore, because we cannot always choose how to act based on the effects on others. And what do people say when someone's in pain after a breakup? "If you really love them, you have to let them go." How bad it's so difficult to think the same when someone decides to end their life and not just a relationship...

I'm sorry for the longform that's probably not so pleasant to read since I'm not a native English speaker. I read also the part on your pain, I hope it will get better and end at some point, whichever path you're taking. Sometimes it is really too much.

 

[Abort!]

I don't think I'm being selfish at all in my particular case, nor do I consider many who do wish to CTB. In my case, I have no dependents, nobody relying on me, and absolutely no contract to stay. I didn't sign up for any of this shit. I have no obligation to continue white knuckling it out just for the few people who want me to exist solely because my departure would hurt. People with children though? That's more dicey for me to think about...

 

[iamuncertain]

Oh I was waiting for this thread. I want to say that the two cases you brought up:
a) not having anyone that cares for you;
b) holding back loved ones while alive
I don't think are really counter-examples to the statement that CTB is selfish.

In case a) you have no other people to exert your final will on, so how can something be labeled selfish or not if there's only one person involved? Usually selfishness is "measured" by the effect of someone's action on others, this scenario doesn't allow for definition of selfishness imo.

In case b) I'm figuring someone that needs constant medical treatment, support, care by relatives, etc. In this case, it is far more likely that the loved ones will understand the decision to not suffer anymore. Yet, they will suffer from the loss, but wouldn't call it a selfish act, I agree.
If you're referring to someone who suffers from MH issues, unfortunately it is common to think for the majority of people, including close ones, that they can find the proper treatment one day and that psychological/emotional pain is more bearable than chronic physical pain... I don't agree with that, but that's how other people perceive the situation. I would still call it selfish to commit in this scenario, even if justified (more on this later).
If you're referring to "being a burden" to others... Well we have a lot of ways to cut ties with people without CTB. And deciding for the people around you if they CAN have your presence in their life is quite selfish.

That said, I don't agree with people saying CTB is an "easy way out", as you correctly brought up there are many. It is not easy at all to overcome SI, people that cross that boundary either have a really strong commitment or they're just so broken they can't sustain it anymore. Yes, life maybe would be even more difficult to endure (that's why someone resorts to something so drastic in the first place), but calling it "easy" is disrespectful for the people in pain that chose what seemed better for them, even if it was scary. In certain scenarios there's not an easy choice.

Lastly, and that's the consideration I anticipated before, I don't believe CTB being selfish means it is morally wrong. There are a lot of selfish acts that are justified.
I like to compare it to breaking up with someone: you know you will put your partner in a painful state, they will suffer from your decision, etc, but people still break up everyday and no one dares to ask "Why didn't you stay with [EX]? You made he/she/they suffer! You're selfish!". It is a selfish act, which is morally justified if you stop loving the other person, or if you don't feel good in the relationship anymore, because we cannot always choose how to act based on the effects on others. And what do people say when someone's in pain after a breakup? "If you really love them, you have to let them go." How bad it's so difficult to think the same when someone decides to end their life and not just a relationship...

I'm sorry for the longform that's probably not so pleasant to read since I'm not a native English speaker. I read also the part on your pain, I hope it will get better and end at some point, whichever path you're taking. Sometimes it is really too much.

Hi there, I think you may not have fully understood my thread. I tried to make it clear that in both scenarios it's about the belief of the suicidal person, which might not necessarily align with reality.
In Case A If they truly believe none will care if they die, then CTB is not selfish, because in their eyes no one will care or be affected.
In Case b If they truly believe their existence is a burden to those they love and care about, then CTB is not a selfish act.