I climbed the ladder but hit the big snake

[Giraffey]

I'm sure most nearly everyone here has played Snakes and Ladders (Chutes and Ladders) at some point in their life. You roll the dice, move along a few squares. You get lucky from time to time, landing on a ladder that catapults you several rows ahead, it feels like winning is inevitable.

But then two shakes of the dice later and you land smack bang on the biggest snake in the game, back to the beginning you go, pissed off and demoralised (if you're the competitive type like me).

That happens to be a good metaphor for the last few months of my life as well. I began to recover, slowly but surely I thought that I was rebuilding my life (again), against all the odds. But it appears that this was another cruel illusion as here I am once more, only this time, something is different.

You know how at every big waterfall there is a point of no return, a point at which the current is so strong that no matter how hard you swim you cannot overcome it? You swim as hard and as fast as you possibly can and for a while you can just about counter the forces that are pulling you towards certain doom, but eventually your muscles begin to tire and the current starts taking you over the edge again.

Sure, you can fight it again; indeed I did, but each time you fail and the current carries you that little bit closer to the edge, the harder you have to paddle just to stay in exactly the same place - never moving forward, just continuing to slow the effect of the deadly current.

Well, I fought and I really fought hard; fucking hard, in-fact. Apparently, it wasn't enough as I'm here again. I hit that snake and now I'm teetering perilously above the rocks, closer than I've ever been to the edge, sure that I have nowhere to go but down.

I'm actually at peace with the idea of death this time, I'm not afraid of death, I see it as rather beautiful actually. My family too are no longer an obstacle, it's not that I or they care any less, the pain of being alive has simply overcome that threshold. You might think of that as being the last true element of my survival instinct switching off.

Well, almost the last... Because as much as I am ready and prepared to end my life and indeed, I now view it as tragically inevitable, part of me still wishes there were another way. I'vehad to take an extended break from work because of this relapse and now I don't speak to anybody. I feel as though I've completely lost all perspective - for someone so level-headed and rational that's the very making of an existential crisis.

Can anyone else relate to any of this stuff, or have I completely lost the plot?

 

[BitterlyAlive]

I can absolutely relate. It sucks because recovery definitely isn't linear, and I know this, but every time I fall deeper and deeper I get so much more discouraged.

 

[Giraffey]

I can absolutely relate. It sucks because recovery definitely isn't linear, and I know this, but every time I fall deeper and deeper I get so much more discouraged.

It's awful isn't it, I'm so sorry you're going through it as well.

Sometimes I think of this as being a kind of test, as in "if I can survive this, I've proved my metal and I can survive anything"... But then I realise that I'm actually in a worse position than when I began to recover. It's like someone setting you an exam but erasing all of your memory before you take it.

How do you know when you've truly reached the point of no return? :(

 

[BitterlyAlive]

How do you know when you've truly reached the point of no return? :(

When I started truly planning my suicide. I don't see another way out. Even if it takes years... I still don't see my life ending any other way. Even if things get better (money, job) it doesn't truly change things.

I'm fully aware that my perspective is heavily influenced by trauma, anxiety, and depression. I don't care.

 

[Giraffey]

Even if things get better (money, job) it doesn't truly change things.

I'm fully aware that my perspective is heavily influenced by trauma, anxiety, and depression. I don't care.

This. I know that trauma, anxiety, depression (it's probably an underlying PTSD complex) is colouring my perspective, and yet even if it wasn't, objectively I can't change any more things.

It's like if you have cancer in many areas of your body. Do you go in throw every possible treatment under the sun at them, however futile - making their life a misery? Or do you just say "enough" and stop caring?

Nothing will change in the long term, I'd rather just bring my pain to an end. It's not like I haven't tried to fix my life.

 

[BitterlyAlive]

This. I know that trauma, anxiety, depression (it's probably an underlying PTSD complex) is colouring my perspective, and yet even if it wasn't, objectively I can't change any more things.

It's like if you have cancer in many areas of your body. Do you go in throw every possible treatment under the sun at them, however futile - making their life a misery? Or do you just say "enough" and stop caring?

Nothing will change in the long term, I'd rather just bring my pain to an end. It's not like I haven't tried to fix my life.

Right, that's how I feel as well. I know I'm young but I've been suffering with depression for over half of my life. Anxiety even longer...trauma possibly lifelong. I don't want to keep going.

 

[Giraffey]

Right, that's how I feel as well. I know I'm young but I've been suffering with depression for over half of my life. Anxiety even longer...trauma possibly lifelong. I don't want to keep going.

I'm fairly young too (at the wrong end of my twenties) and I hate it when people capitalise on that to say "but you've got your whole life ahead of you". You know, in some ways I think it's worse when you're young because it's not like you can look back and say "well I had a good life, I've come this far" - to me, things began to go wrong in my life at around 16 and progressively got worse. With some rare exceptions lasting on the order of months, I really don't know what it's like to live a normal, happy adult life.

I could wait it out for the next few decades, be the eternal optimist and "keep trying" in the hope of a miracle, but that's a big gamble and the odds are dramatically against me. A lot of risk for barely any reward. As you said, I just don't want to keep going now.

 

[BitterlyAlive]

you've got your whole life ahead of you

I actually had a therapist tell me they couldn't understand my suicidal ideation for this reason: I'm young, have potential, have my whole life ahead of me. Like...fuck you.

Man, I'm so tired of fighting. I only do anything anymore because I have to. What kind of life is that?

 

[Giraffey]

I actually had a therapist tell me they couldn't understand my suicidal ideation for this reason: I'm young, have potential, have my whole life ahead of me. Like...fuck you.

I despair of some of the things that I hear therapists have told their clients, it's as if some therapists see themselves on a pedestal where their opinion is the law. I sometimes wonder how some of them were ever able to qualify...

Man, I'm so tired of fighting. I only do anything anymore because I have to. What kind of life is that?

Yes, this is me in a single sentence. I call it "obligation to exist". We talk about quality of life all the time when it comes to animals, but when it comes to humans the quality bit gets forgotten as if life is sacred and sacrosanct regardless of someone's wishes or circumstances.

 

[BitterlyAlive]

I despair of some of the things that I hear therapists have told their clients, it's as if some therapists see themselves on a pedestal where their opinion is the law. I sometimes wonder how some of them were ever able to qualify...



Yes, this is me in a single sentence. I call it "obligation to exist". We talk about quality of life all the time when it comes to animals, but when it comes to humans the quality bit gets forgotten as if life is sacred and sacrosanct regardless of someone's wishes or circumstances.

Yeah it's a good thing I didn't internalize that and the horrible other things they said. This person had some serious issues.

Yes on the obligation to exist and the value of human life. I've heard arguments that euthanasia for humans = murder. I disagree.... Murder has malice and hate behind it. Euthanasia is the complete opposite in intent.

 

[Giraffey]

Yeah it's a good thing I didn't internalize that and the horrible other things they said. This person had some serious issues.

Yes on the obligation to exist and the value of human life. I've heard arguments that euthanasia for humans = murder. I disagree.... Murder has malice and hate behind it. Euthanasia is the complete opposite in intent.

I've had similar things said to me by 'friends' in the past too. I can forgive the ignorance if it's from somebody I don't know very well, but when it's a friend or therapist who you've opened up to such a comment (to me at least) reflects a total lack of effort to attempt to understand. It's even worse if you get labelled as an attention seeker (as young people are so often dismissed), then basic human-human politeness goes out of the window.

One of the classic arguments against suicide is that it's a slippery slope towards the legal murder of the elderly or mentally vulnerable populations. It doesn't matter how much you refute and dismantle that argument, the debate is so emotionally heated that sense goes out of the window, unfortunately.

I've talked about one case I was close to before, an old friend of mine was a human rights barrister acting for this young girl who had starved herself to near death and sadly, being anorexic prior to that was now in very bad shape. She was lying in a hospital bed but had expressed a wish to be allowed to die, the hospital disagreed and had taken her to court to get authorisation to force-feed her.

I don't remember what her exact chance of survival was deemed to be by the experts, but it was probably around 20%-30% and the process would cause her extreme discomfort and pain. You might expect the court to have ruled that she should be allowed to pass away, after all, her chance of survival, if she was force-fed, was low; and it would cause her a serious amount of discomfort and be a deeply traumatic and humiliating experience. It was her settled wish to die, she had suffered from debilitating anorexia most of her life and although she was a young adult, she was mentally competent and she'd had enough.

The Judge ruled that the hospital could force-feed her against her wishes with the logic being that life was precious and she should be given "every chance" to get better, however slim. The young girl passed away in the end, denied a dignified death. I've found that if you put cases like that to those who are anti-suicide they either depersonalise it and make it an issue of principle (slippery slope, can't open the floodgates, first the terminally ill, then the elderly and burdensome, then the impulsive, or people who are pressured etc); or they'll make it a pseudo-religious or humanist issue, simultaneously advocating the importance of free-will whilst arguing that the only way to support free-will is to not allow people to end their own life.

So sorry, I went off on a long rant there!

 

[Huntfish34]

Yep,. Totally agreed to that... Murder is a totally different beast in itself. I'm glad I've never heard or been a part of those arguments... I'd be Off the damn fckn wall. Lol.

SlowMo. -. I can relate to your statement a Lot more than I'd really care to admit. Lost the plot.. ? No not at all. Those are your thoughts , ideas, and life experiences. Nobody can Really and truly understand that but yourself. Good on you for trying to fight so fucking hard .

I can see how .. a normal / average person could say you lost it. But I'm hardly normal,. And it makes Perfect sense with damn near every word you wrote. With me ,. I'm basically just Sick and tired of being Sick and fucking tired. I just Want to be Done already,. Gone for good. Possibly even do the world a Favor in the process.

 

[BitterlyAlive]

I've had similar things said to me by 'friends' in the past too. I can forgive the ignorance if it's from somebody I don't know very well, but when it's a friend or therapist who you've opened up to such a comment (to me at least) reflects a total lack of effort to attempt to understand. It's even worse if you get labelled as an attention seeker (as young people are so often dismissed), then basic human-human politeness goes out of the window.

One of the classic arguments against suicide is that it's a slippery slope towards the legal murder of the elderly or mentally vulnerable populations. It doesn't matter how much you refute and dismantle that argument, the debate is so emotionally heated that sense goes out of the window, unfortunately.

I've talked about one case I was close to before, an old friend of mine was a human rights barrister acting for this young girl who had starved herself to near death and sadly, being anorexic prior to that was now in very bad shape. She was lying in a hospital bed but had expressed a wish to be allowed to die, the hospital disagreed and had taken her to court to get authorisation to force-feed her.

I don't remember what her exact chance of survival was deemed to be by the experts, but it was probably around 20%-30% and the process would cause her extreme discomfort and pain. You might expect the court to have ruled that she should be allowed to pass away, after all, her chance of survival, if she was force-fed, was low; and it would cause her a serious amount of discomfort and be a deeply traumatic and humiliating experience. It was her settled wish to die, she had suffered from debilitating anorexia most of her life and although she was a young adult, she was mentally competent and she'd had enough.

The Judge ruled that the hospital could force-feed her against her wishes with the logic being that life was precious and she should be given "every chance" to get better, however slim. The young girl passed away in the end, denied a dignified death. I've found that if you put cases like that to those who are anti-suicide they either depersonalise it and make it an issue of principle (slippery slope, can't open the floodgates, first the terminally ill, then the elderly and burdensome, then the impulsive, or people who are pressured etc); or they'll make it a pseudo-religious or humanist issue, simultaneously advocating the importance of free-will whilst arguing that the only way to support free-will is to not allow people to end their own life.

So sorry, I went off on a long rant there!

No worries, mate. This was an interesting and passionate post. That girl deserved so much better than what she got. She deserved a peaceful and dignified death. People I know tend to make it a religious issue, which is...okay, but I'm pretty sure the whole "thou shall not kill" is really best interpreted/translated as "thou shall not murder" (Bible study class). Big difference.

 

[Giraffey]

SlowMo. -. I can relate to your statement a Lot more than I'd really care to admit. Lost the plot.. ? No not at all. Those are your thoughts , ideas, and life experiences. Nobody can Really and truly understand that but yourself. Good on you for trying to fight so fucking hard .

I can see how .. a normal / average person could say you lost it. But I'm hardly normal,. And it makes Perfect sense with damn near every word you wrote. With me ,. I'm basically just Sick and tired of being Sick and fucking tired. I just Want to be Done already,. Gone for good. Possibly even do the world a Favor in the process.

You know, I think I would be worried if anybody turned around and said "Slow, you're the most normal guy I know...", I pride myself on being quirky and eccentric - I mean, who wants to think in exactly the same way as everybody else? I'm fine with the screwed up brain, I just don't want the screwed up life...

It's nice to hear that someone relates though, although at the same time I'm sad that other people are going through the same kind of pain. It's like when people say "you've hit rock bottom now, you can't sink any lower" but nobody ever tells you that once you climb back up to the surface you can sink again, and again... and again...

No worries, mate. This was an interesting and passionate post. That girl deserved so much better than what she got. She deserved a peaceful and dignified death. People I know tend to make it a religious issue, which is...okay, but I'm pretty sure the whole "thou shall not kill" is really best interpreted/translated as "thou shall not murder" (Bible study class). Big difference.

I agree, and I'm a firm believer that people should have the freedom to believe whatever they want to believe, be it God or Lizzards dictating their moral compass. The line I draw is when people try to impose their beliefs on others in a way that limits the rights of those other people. You're right though, the accusation of murder gets thrown around far too loosely for my liking. It takes a great ignorance to compare assisted suicide to murder, in my view.

We need to have a rational debate but given the current climate that just won't happen anytime soon. I even read the other day that a pro-assisted-suicide supporter from Switzerland had remarked that he regretted the change in law as it was a slippery slope. Ludicrous!