I cant do it. Suicide is admitting defeat.

[daysfeel]

I never really hear suicide being talked about from this perspective. But does anyone else fight the urge to die, because you know it would be admitting defeat to the people who crushed you? Almost like it gives too much power to the people who need to be proven wrong.

After all the horrible psychological damage, my suicide making even one single person happy is too one too many. I don't want to give anyone the satisfaction of knowing they were able to kill me off and get rid of me.

I need to live to see the day where things get better, and I'm able to prove to everyone that I wasn't meant to be a fuck up, and more importantly that they were never able to stop me from having a happy life. I can't kill myself because it would prove to them they're powerful. More powerful than me. They got to be happy, why would I commit suicide and deny myself the chance to be happy like them.

But fighting the urge to ctb is so difficult. I know of a method I'm not scared of. I have tranquilizers as well, so I really wouldn't even feel it. But I literally *can't* do it. I cant let them scapegoating me for that long define me. I can't let the world see that they finally got to me. I just can't. I have to keep living.

 

[Dot]

"He decided in favor of life out of sheer spite and malice."
― Patrick Süskind





Thre r plnty of rsourcs in recvry sectn if n.e of thse wld hlp

Thy sy tht lfe livd well = th/ bst revnge

 

[maniac116]

For me, ctb is an absolute last last last resort. It does represent defeat for me. I'm trying to take life, one single day at a time.

 

[Cloud Busting]

Yes, ultimately this is my dilemma. The closest I ever got to suicide was because it felt like a sacrifice, as I thought I was a burden to others. I was proven wrong, so I have lost all will to do it now.

I also see it as giving up. Same with substance abuse (my other struggle.) I see it as others winning, because I let them or the commands of life get to me. I don't want to succumb to defeat. Does it make life less of a struggle? No, but I will be rewarded with a peaceful death either way, and suicide sends a message. I don't want that.

Life is such a meaningless and overwhelming void to me. Idk if I'll ever be happy. But spiteful? That I can do. I recommend the work of Albert Camus. The Myth of Sisyphus is my manifesto basically. Also, we all suffer together. That makes me feel less alone.

 

[SVEN]

If you resolve to fight on I wish you nothing but success and that you achieve all you desire.

 

[Jdieiejdjaow]

The best way to get out of the drama triangle is to heal your trauma (recovery is possible, healing is lifelong). Abusers NEVER like to see you content with your life and putting boundaries.

 

[GuppyBoyo]

I never really hear suicide being talked about from this perspective. But does anyone else fight the urge to die, because you know it would be admitting defeat to the people who crushed you? Almost like it gives too much power to the people who need to be proven wrong.

After all the horrible psychological damage, my suicide making even one single person happy is too one too many. I don't want to give anyone the satisfaction of knowing they were able to kill me off and get rid of me.

I need to live to see the day where things get better, and I'm able to prove to everyone that I wasn't meant to be a fuck up, and more importantly that they were never able to stop me from having a happy life. I can't kill myself because it would prove to them they're powerful. More powerful than me. They got to be happy, why would I commit suicide and deny myself the chance to be happy like them.

But fighting the urge to ctb is so difficult. I know of a method I'm not scared of. I have tranquilizers as well, so I really wouldn't even feel it. But I literally *can't* do it. I cant let them scapegoating me for that long define me. I can't let the world see that they finally got to me. I just can't. I have to keep living.

this is actually one of the most common perspectives in regards to suicide,

but i do find it to be quit dubious in nature, i don't think the people that have power over us are doing what they're doing because they actually want a person to kill themselves, they mostly do it in the spur of the moment, you were not worth further consideration and so they did what they did.

maybe you looked a little autistic so your dad had break your nose to "stop that thing", maybe you wet your bed so your mama had to whip you one too many times so that you "stop that thing"

other people aren't placing bets on whether or not you're a fuck up, neither is it because they have anything against your happiness, as i said; their goal is simply to "stop that thing", a scummy pursuit of normal at the cost of everything and everyone.

they don't need proof that they're powerful, they already have power and they know it. parents, the community members that enable parents. nothing one does will change the fact that they got to bend other human beings to a rotten will, only because they could, only so they would "stop that thing"

this line of thinking is dubious because your continued living would effectively "stop that thing", which is the goal of the people with power over us most of the time, your continued living is just what they want, they goat to cause so much harm and then nothing happened, life kept on going.


If you live so you can get some sort of payback from the people that caused you harm, then you'll be chasing an unattainable goal, it's best to pursue well being and health for your own sake.
you'll find further discussions of these topics in the recovery forum.

 

[JesiBel]

Sometimes I think about it, and it only provokes me unhealthy thoughts.

Spoiler

"If I leave... I'll traumatize them with the most horrific scene they've ever seen."

But that would make me just like them... so I don't know.

I'm sorry I'm not feeling well today.

I'd like to somehow punish them for everything they did to me; they deserve it. They will call me weak, cowardly or a failure, but they will not be able to erase the image of my corpse from their minds.

It's bad, but sometimes I want to do that. I don't think I'll go that far, I always tried to be the opposite of them.

 

[platypus77]

I never really hear suicide being talked about from this perspective.

As @Cloud Busting mentioned, it feels like you could benefit a lot from thinkers like Camus and Nietzsche.

Turning survival into defiance. Instead of giving in, Sisyphus stubbornly embraces his task as an act of rebellion against the gods that punished him.

Things can get better, and staying alive is proof that they didn't win.

Albert Camus on Rebelling against Life’s Absurdity | Philosophy Break

Occasionally, we might be struck by a disturbing feeling: that life is absurd, and nothing we do matters. Albert Camus thinks rather than deny life’s absurdity with comforting delusions, we can establish a more authentic happiness by perpetually scorning our absurd fate.

philosophybreak.com

 

[Lost Magic]

I'm doing it for me, not for them. Most humans suck, but I will always try to acknowledge the good ones. Like the many good people on this forum, who don't deserve the shit they have to deal with in life.

 

[flkywch]

i used to then i experienced pretty much full disappearance of my ego and/or cares what people think so it doesn't rly work to provide any motivation anymore. plus they will be rotting in the ground eventually too so who cares really.

spite is a good tool to motivate/avoid ctb but i don't think it's good long term or healthy to obsess over it anyhow. need to have your own reasons from within that don't involve reliance on others

 

[FrozenOcean]

Who's keeping score? Will anyone remember our life stories? If so, who? Are we doing it for ourselves or for others? Is life a win or lose situation? When we die and everyone we ever knew dies will we remember any of this? Do we think that future civilizations will take note of who fought for survival and who gave up? Do we think of the billions of people who came before us and the details of their social lives?

 

[bipolar22]

Defeat. Success. Winning. Strong. All words made up by humans which can be interpreted in any way that suits in the moment.
These words mean nothing to me.

 

[Dot]

If spitng othr ppl gves a persn reasn t/ liv fr smetme longr & gve opprtunty fr certn evnts or perspctves 2 chnge thn imo tht wll alwys b a gd reasn whch slf wll alwys Ncourge

 

[deadbidaylight]

You are a strong human being. Choosing life and happiness in the face of adversity is admirable and commendable. I hope that you are proud of yourself. Overcoming such huge obstacles, especially the ones inside your head that plague you, is one of the hardest things I think a person can do. I would always encourage this over choosing to CTB, but ultimately I am still pro choice and respect everyone's choices on forging their own destiny.

Regardless, I am so very happy to read this. Keep your head up, and prove those fuckers wrong. You've got this, and I think you probably have a good army of support behind you here too. I wish you much love and good luck!

 

[ventingfrustrations]

I'm glad you got hope at least I've already lost
I don't care if the whole world cheered at my death I'd still do it I'm far gone from hope

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

That's a healthy attitude to be honest. Channeling feelings of defeat and despair into anger and a drive to conquer can help turn a page in life. I like watching interviews of combat veterans, Navy Seals, Army Rangers to see how they surmount PTSD, severe injuries etc (no offence to actual vets). I felt like life was over in my teens and I regret allowing depression dictate the direction of my life as much as I did.

If you do feel like running with your will to survive long enough "to watch your enemies float down the river" as the Chinese proverb says, my personal experience says to do whatever you can to pull yourself out of suicidal ideation especially if you already have a method. Friendly reminder that there's a recovery section here on the board.

 

[grapevoid]

I used to think this way. Not sure what happened, guess I got tired and decided f*ck it… sometimes peace is better than winning.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Personally, I don't see it like that. I've pretty much always seen suicide as a defiant act. An unwillingness to comply. Perhaps tragic but then, I think it's simply a reflection of how tragic life can be. I don't personally see life as some great prize to be fought for. (Although, I have no problem with other people seeing it like that for them.) It's more something I was lumbered/ burdened with and I just tried to make the best of it.

What slightly annoys me is the narrative I imagine the (suspected) narcissist who first caused me to have these thoughts will likely form in their head. And, more likely say to other people. It pisses me off that they could very well flip it to be an expression of guilt- they always played the victim and made me out to be the bully. I suppose the only comfort is, there are people who remember that time for me and know the truth. It's reasuring to hope they might still be rooting for me after I'm gone. Plus, likely blaming this person. That gives me a weird sense of justice.

 

[platypus77]

I used to think this way. Not sure what happened, guess I got tired and decided f*ck it… sometimes peace is better than winning.

By achieving peace you've won.

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

Why would I care about what other people think? they are free to think whatever they want, they don't matter at all in the grand scheme of things and neither do I , this is not about a personal battle, my life means nothing and so does theirs, they can think whatever they want for all I care, it might make me mad in the moment but I can't help nor control my emotions, I have tried , I just can't.

You can't "win" life, as an individual even if I were to compare you to a grain of sand, in the face of the universe, you are billions of times more insignificant than a grain of sand to the biggest beach.

What we do on earth or outside of earth doesn't matter, we do it because we are weak, everything we do is to cope and hide from the reality of it all, we don't matter, nothing matters in fact, we just exist? probably that's the right way to describe the situation, you just "are".

I would argue that suicide leads you to not participate in the game of "life" , so you can't either win nor lose, in fact; the script flips, in the grand scheme of your absence, the universe doesn't matter.

At least that's how I would want to see the things, my brain kind of fights me but it's fine, it's the last twitch of a dying insect

 

[username12345]

I never really hear suicide being talked about from this perspective. But does anyone else fight the urge to die, because you know it would be admitting defeat to the people who crushed you? Almost like it gives too much power to the people who need to be proven wrong.

After all the horrible psychological damage, my suicide making even one single person happy is too one too many. I don't want to give anyone the satisfaction of knowing they were able to kill me off and get rid of me.

I need to live to see the day where things get better, and I'm able to prove to everyone that I wasn't meant to be a fuck up, and more importantly that they were never able to stop me from having a happy life. I can't kill myself because it would prove to them they're powerful. More powerful than me. They got to be happy, why would I commit suicide and deny myself the chance to be happy like them.

But fighting the urge to ctb is so difficult. I know of a method I'm not scared of. I have tranquilizers as well, so I really wouldn't even feel it. But I literally *can't* do it. I cant let them scapegoating me for that long define me. I can't let the world see that they finally got to me. I just can't. I have to keep living.

For me, yeah it is defeat, mostly. They all knew they won a long time ago, though. At this point it's just complete cruelty and lack of humanity. At the same time, it would also be proof that I did need support. Everyone needs support, but especially when they're going through a lot. There's no way I could've asked for this. The sentiment that any minority needs to just be strong is oppressive because it implies that you have a higher threshold for painful things in life whether emotionally/socially/physically as if you're not human.

 

[daysfeel]

For me, yeah it is defeat, mostly. They all knew they won a long time ago, though. At this point it's just complete cruelty and lack of humanity. At the same time, it would also be proof that I did need support. Everyone needs support, but especially when they're going through a lot. There's no way I could've asked for this. The sentiment that any minority needs to just be strong is oppressive because it implies that you have a higher threshold for painful things in life whether emotionally/socially/physically as if you're not human.

That last point you made is actually really good. Why is it that when so much abuse happens to someone constantly, they're congratulated for being strong, and almost expected to withstand it? Why aren't people sensitive to their pain? Is it because we're not seen as fully human? This basically implies that anyone who could have helped but didn't and congratulates you for your strength is not intervening because they also don't see you as fully human either.

 

[bananaolympus]

I undertand your perspective but it is limited to only people who suffered from others, in my case nobody caused my problems and if i were to die by ctb it will not bring any happiness to any people i know off, i don't share the idea of defeat for me is more like the idea that life is no longer compatible

 

[hereornot]

I'm going through something similar. There's a person even urging me to commit suicide.

And yes, they'll be happy, although deep down they want to be something they're not, so they seek happiness in the sadness of others. But that's up to the other person. In my case, I believe it's worse to extend the time of this sad life than to end it right away.

There's no prospect of getting younger and healthier in 10 years, since I've already thrown away the last 12 years.

In my case, there's a bad person making my life hell, and they're not going to stop.

In fact, I should have left by now. I don't know why I haven't left yet.

The best way to get out of the drama triangle is to heal your trauma (recovery is possible, healing is lifelong). Abusers NEVER like to see you content with your life and putting boundaries.

That sounds nice. I've tried both conventional and unconventional means.

Attempting to heal has only brought me more trauma and recrimination.

Maybe the problem is me, so it's good to know that the bus is always available.

 

[genie]

Not to me. Death is inevitable. You can never defeat death. CTB is choosing when to exit this dreadful existing. Dying is just defeating life. But it's your life and sticking round for longer is not a bad thing and you can keep is company which is a win

For me, ctb is an absolute last last last resort. It does represent defeat for me. I'm trying to take life, one single day at a time.

Same. Want to keep my options open for if SHTF.

 

[hereornot]

But it's your life and sticking round for longer is not a bad thing and you can keep is company which is a win

It depends how nice that company is. In my opinion.

 

[dingokettle3531]

I never really hear suicide being talked about from this perspective. But does anyone else fight the urge to die, because you know it would be admitting defeat to the people who crushed you? Almost like it gives too much power to the people who need to be proven wrong.

After all the horrible psychological damage, my suicide making even one single person happy is too one too many. I don't want to give anyone the satisfaction of knowing they were able to kill me off and get rid of me.

I need to live to see the day where things get better, and I'm able to prove to everyone that I wasn't meant to be a fuck up, and more importantly that they were never able to stop me from having a happy life. I can't kill myself because it would prove to them they're powerful. More powerful than me. They got to be happy, why would I commit suicide and deny myself the chance to be happy like them.

But fighting the urge to ctb is so difficult. I know of a method I'm not scared of. I have tranquilizers as well, so I really wouldn't even feel it. But I literally *can't* do it. I cant let them scapegoating me for that long define me. I can't let the world see that they finally got to me. I just can't. I have to keep living.

If you think that way it's very admirable, I myself did for most of my life. I'm very cool with admitting defeat sometimes though, sometimes defeat is the best possible scenario

 

[Roadrunner]

Successfully CTB will be one of the most difficult things I'll ever have to do IMHO. For me it won't be defeat, it'll be success in finally ending my mental pain.

 

[Cloud Busting]

As @Cloud Busting mentioned, it feels like you could benefit a lot from thinkers like Camus and Nietzsche.

Turning survival into defiance. Instead of giving in, Sisyphus stubbornly embraces his task as an act of rebellion against the gods that punished him.

Things can get better, and staying alive is proof that they didn't win.

Albert Camus on Rebelling against Life’s Absurdity | Philosophy Break

Occasionally, we might be struck by a disturbing feeling: that life is absurd, and nothing we do matters. Albert Camus thinks rather than deny life’s absurdity with comforting delusions, we can establish a more authentic happiness by perpetually scorning our absurd fate.

philosophybreak.com

Id also add Arthur Schopenhauer. On the Sufferings of the World and On Suicide were very helpful for me. I do not understand why he is considered to be a downer or giving up. I rather find his perspective very uplifting. Life is suffering, but struggle is what drives us to live. We can lose ourselves or our 'will' through nature and art and extend compassion to our fellow man who faces the same predicament we do. These are the things that motivate me. Nietzsche (whom I haven't read) was inspired by him I believe (think they have converged at points but again I'm not as familiar.)

Camus said in The Myth of Sisyphus that suicide is a confession that life is too much for the person (paraphrasing.) it was the first thing I thought of when reading op's post.

Philosophy has honestly helped me more than cbt ever has lol. I'd love an existential therapist.

@GuppyBoyo

If people are abusing their power during the spur of the moment only, then why do overarching, systemic power structures exist (e.g capitalism, racism, patriarchy, powerful institutions like corporations or religious doctrines or authoritarian regimes?) I don't think it's really about "stopping that thing." I think it's about control, superiority, and exploitation.

I don't understand how it would follow that continuing to carry on is what people trying to "stop that thing" want. You're giving them what they want by stopping that thing, right? Consider how hate groups want to 'cure ' LGBT people, or the disabled, that sort of thing. Those within power would rather the weak don't exist or if they do, to serve their power ultimately. I'd rather think suicide continues to feed their power, especially since suicide is often perceived as a weakness, and tearing down the 'weak' is what those in power desire.

Think of how say, activists won their power. They fought. They were loud and proud and did not let their oppressors stop them. I see choosing to live in this way. I don't disagree focusing on one's wellbeing is important, but when you don't value yourself, it's hard to do. For me, I only care about my wellbeing as I consider it as reflection of others (I think of god as the universe and all living things as one as they're all connected to the universe, for context.) having an external factor to strive for isn't always bad. People are different, and their motivations to live are thus different. I'm more of a "my body is a temple" sort of person.

I undertand your perspective but it is limited to only people who suffered from others, in my case nobody caused my problems and if i were to die by ctb it will not bring any happiness to any people i know off, i don't share the idea of defeat for me is more like the idea that life is no longer compatible

I disagree. I think one can also apply life experiences here. Life sucks, we were forced to be here, so why not prove to yourself you won't be bound by your suffering or let tragedy defeat you?

I find it so fascinating that people perceive op as caring about what others think. I rather think it's more about refusing to be the victim of tragic circumstance, whether that be due to people, natural events, life itself, or yourself. Beat the enemy. If life is an enemy due to its purposeless or banality, make it your bitch. That's again what Camus essentially said.