I am against encouraging suicide

[BipolarGuy]

Aww, now that you called it out we won't get the specific cases and generalities :(

You're right. I am sorry D:

 

[esse_est_percipi]

otherwise it's the illness that wins.

is suicide never a good or rational option according to you?

 

[Ethereal]

I personally find this really hard, even after so long. It's really difficult for me to walk that line. I think it's possible, but it's still going to be tough because whatever you say could be construed as an attempt at influence either way, but saying nothing after you have read a heartfelt message is not helpful either.
However, I think people with any empathy can read between the lines and understand that language is inherently clumsy in such a delicate circumstance. It's not that hard to interpret context and allow for the awkwardness of responses that try to express some compassion without attempting to deny choice.
Sometimes it can be better to say something, even something clumsy, so at least someone feels heard, and not responding for fear of exerting undue influence (either way) is most unfortunate.
Edit: I don't visit the main forum for this reason. I used to; I used to try and offer what support I could if people wanted it, not to encourage either way, but to act as a sounding board for those that wanted such. I just can't do it now. Been here too long and lost too many people. I'm not made of stone and it gets to me.

yes, well said.

 

[puppy9]

Saying safe travels is an acceptance of their choice for their own life.

If it's wrong for you, don't do it. But to say it's wrong for everyone else is exactly the kind of attitude about suicide that folks are so grateful to not have shoved in their face on this forum.




Btw, my impression was that this thread was posted in Suicide Discussion and mods moved it to Recovery. The information presented and the the sentiment of the title are far more appropriate on this part of the forum than the other.

Really, damn... I thought op posted this on recovery. I saw OP on a jumping thread; trying to get personal details that will compromise a vulnerable member location. In Among Us it's very sus. 1 imposter remains.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I saw what you did there.

 

[BipolarGuy]

Really, damn... I thought op posted this on recovery. I saw OP on a jumping thread; trying to get personal details that will compromise a vulnerable member location. In Among Us it's very sus. 1 imposter remains.

I agree.
Despite my concerns about a minority of members, I do not think it is right to interfere in this way.
Especially in the case where the person is depressed due to practical things happening in their life rather than "just" an internal feeling of depression (I've personally experienced both of these types of depression).
Being locked up won't solve practical problems, but it may make them worse.

I wish we lived in a world where nobody felt the need to end their lives, but that's not how the world is.

 

[Sk1n1M1n]

I meant the location as England, Scotland, Ireland Wales, United States, etc and not somebody's exact location.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I've expressed concerns over a minority of members.

I hope you've reported them.

If I'd seen evidence of this, I would, in the hopes the mods would act to protect the forum from it. Mods are often responsive when such comments on the forum and in PMs are reported, and if needed, when a follow-up message is sent showing evidence of the whole pattern.

 

[checkouttime]

I hope you've reported them.

If I'd seen evidence of this, I would, in the hopes the mods would act to protect the forum from it. Mods are often responsive when such comments on the forum and in PMs are reported, and if needed, when a follow-up message is sent showing evidence of the whole pattern.

i agree these people that try to get people's personal details etc should definately be reported. you don't know what they want them for. certainly untrustworthy, shady characters to me

 

[Sk1n1M1n]

Are you guys still pissed off with me? I don't have a hidden agenda I really meant a general location and not exact even if the OP had said middle of Australia it wouldn't of mattered.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I meant the location as England, Scotland, Ireland Wales, United States, etc and not somebody's exact location.

Unfortunately, it was open to interpretation as to whether you meant country or exact location.

People ask often on the forum where another member is from. Red flags go up when the question is asked in relation to an attempt, and even more red flags go up when the person asking says, "I don't want you to jump."

Are you guys still pissed off with me? I don't have a hidden agenda I really meant a general location and not exact even if the OP had said middle of Australia it wouldn't of mattered.

I don't recall anyone acting in anger about it, just saying it's not okay to do and why. From what I can tell by your words, you ostensibly think it is okay and defend it, but nobody's saying, "Are you still pissed we're not okay with it?" What you did there was an evasion to shift the focus from the issue to those who have a problem with the issue and implying their response to it is wrong.

 

[Lilacmoon]

Are you guys still pissed off with me? I don't have a hidden agenda I really meant a general location and not exact even if the OP had said middle of Australia it wouldn't of mattered.

Speaking for myself, not pissed at you. Simply.. wary. I had a lot of trauma from the involuntary inpatient ward. I would like if you did not pretend it was a magical solution. Disagreeing with your success story anecdote does not equate to being pissed off. If we are to make this a proper debate it would be good if you did not change the topic to what can be interpreted as an attempt to act like a victim of anger.

 

[Sk1n1M1n]

It may not be magic solution but someone else it could be their lifeline and my life is nowhere near recovered, I still have lots of problems going on, I still have those moments of binge eating and bpd episodes but I am not cured/recovered,

 

[Giraffey]

Are you guys still pissed off with me? I don't have a hidden agenda I really meant a general location and not exact even if the OP had said middle of Australia it wouldn't of mattered.

I'm pissed off with you. I posted a thread the other day talking about my abusive ex-partner and you replied asking me to stop and think about her mental health? Would you tell a rape victim off for not feeling sorry that their attacker had tried to hurt themselves? Now there's this thread where you not only accuse me and others of encouraging suicide by refusing to condemn people who post goodbye threads, you also patronise me and other whose desire to commit suicide is driven by life circumstances by claiming that it's "letting the illness win".

Well, for your information, I have no mental illness and my life's circumstances are a little bit more serious than not being able to drive. You might receive less criticism if you abandoned your patronising and judgemental attitude, that has more in common with pro-life fanatics than those of us (myself included) who do not encourage suicide but do respect the autonomy of an adult to make their own rational decision.

 

[Sk1n1M1n]

But people giving links of methods section is in a way encouraging, I am not saying you personally but giving links is allowing people to go find out for themselves . I am sorry I came over as patronising judgments its a habit I'm learning to get out of.

But also realise that I am not one side of argument over the, I am in both categories, given that i have bpd

 

[checkouttime]

Are you guys still pissed off with me? I don't have a hidden agenda I really meant a general location and not exact even if the OP had said middle of Australia it wouldn't of mattered.

i don't think anyone is pissed off at you. we all now understand exactly what you meant. it was a very helpful post i'm sure for many members

 

[Deleted member 1465]

It was certainly enlightening.

 

[checkouttime]

I'm pissed off with you. I posted a thread the other day talking about my abusive ex-partner and you replied asking me to stop and think about her mental health? Would you tell a rape victim off for not feeling sorry that their attacker had tried to hurt themselves? Now there's this thread where you not only accuse me and others of encouraging suicide by refusing to condemn people who post goodbye threads, you also patronise me and other whose desire to commit suicide is driven by life circumstances by claiming that it's "letting the illness win".

Well, for your information, I have no mental illness and my life's circumstances are a little bit more serious than not being able to drive. You might receive less criticism if you abandoned your patronising and judgemental attitude, that has more in common with pro-life fanatics than those of us (myself included) who do not encourage suicide but do respect the autonomy of an adult to make their own rational decision.

but they know your situation so well, they have seen you post on the internet surely they know EXACTLY how you feel. of course if you seek the help they talk about ,everything will be fine again. i'm sure they can promise this aswell

now where's my magic wand

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

But people giving links of methods section is in a way encouraging, I am not saying you personally but giving links is allowing people to go find out for themselves

Respectfully, that is a foundational part of how this environment functions. It is first and foremost a place for any adult to get support for the personal choice to suicide should one decide to follow through on it.

To step outside of this and see a complementary perspective...

Bars are legal establishments. Alcohol lowers inhibitions that maintain social self-control. One enters bars at their own risk knowing it is an environment of alcohol and lowered inhibitions. I used to vocally argue against the uninhibited behaviors, and to put it mildly, not many people were motivated to change them for my wishes and convenience. I finally stopped going to bars.

 

[checkouttime]

But people giving links of methods section is in a way encouraging, I am not saying you personally but giving links is allowing people to go find out for themselves . I am sorry I came over as patronising judgments its a habit I'm learning to get out of.

But also realise that I am not one side of argument over the, I am in both categories, given that i have bpd

If it was seen as encouraging it wouldn't be allowed on the site, it's really as simple as that. have you been on every other site that has methods etc on and expressed your views??? i doubt it

 

[Taki]

My issue isn't with voices, it's with reality.

 

[Lilacmoon]

Suggesting inpatient could save a life, it could also destroy a life. Thus it's irresponsible to suggest as a lifeline - it is up to the individual to determine what is best for them. Not to mention the abuse that could happen in the wards. It is not as simple as "be brave, don't let the illness win!". You could be opening yourself up to more abuse and pain. It is okay to provide it as an option, but I hope everyone reading knows to apply the consequences of inpatienting to their own circumstances before blindly deciding that it is their best path forward. Maybe it can help, maybe it will hurt and worsen the situation. We can agree on that at least?

As for the methods... would it be a better outcome for someone to make a misinformed attempt and end up permanently disabled, in a worse position mentally and physically, but alive? Would you say that that is a preferable outcome to you?

...I hope I don't come across the wrong way. I'm stupid after all, I don't have the right to speak.

 

[SanJunipero1]

Speaking for myself, whilst I appreciate the upbeat sentiment of the OP and agree that it is morally wrong (and against the site rules) to encourage suicide:

• I have always been aware of the emergency service numbers. 999 (UK), 911 (USA), 112 (Europe), 000 (Australia). These should not usually be relevant to one's circumstances if a decision to commit suicide is made rationally and after a considerable amount of thought.
• Medication will not improve my life circumstances which are objectively limiting to my future goals. As a hypnotherapist myself, I already take care of regulating my emotions when necessary. I found CBT ineffective in my teenage years and disliked it during training as well, I've never used it with a client. An in-patient admission would serve no purpose for me.
• Doctors/nurses are my friends and colleagues and I respect them dearly, but if I committed to ending my life, there would be no opportunity to 'save' it.
• Again, voluntary or involuntary admission will not provide any benefit to me. I'm not clinically depressed, I suffer from no mental illnesses, I am a grounded and rational individual and my life's circumstances cannot be syndromized.
• Requests for help sometimes fall on deaf ears; sometimes people don't want or need help; sometimes people can't help. My circumstances are beyond rectification, again, objectively not subjectively.
• A stirring sentiment, yet again, not all of us are plagued by such voices be they actual or metaphorical. Not all of us here who are contemplating suicide are plagued by depression.

Again, I appreciate the positivity of the post, but suicide is a complex decision that cannot and should not be reduced to motivational platitudes.

Just my thoughts.

All of this basically.
Hard same for me. Although I'd actually go even further as to say that I've done nothing but ask for help (NHS, private therapy, helplines, retreats, medication, microdosing, EMDR etc etc) and nothing sticks. Like you because my depression is situational (grief over my fiancé's suicide) not chemical.

 

[raindrops]

It's just wrong to say safe travels as as it says unintentionally to end their lives without being direct

You do understand its not all mental some people are physically struggling and will forever be in pain so it is their choice. You can also pay over 3k to ctb professionally? medically? so I don't see your point.

But people giving links of methods section is in a way encouraging, I am not saying you personally but giving links is allowing people to go find out for themselves

Adults make their own decisions. Also because people have shared methods it has put me off wanting to ctb for now, I personally am thankful for those posts, buuuut if I wanted to ctb I can because it would be MY decision and not encouragement from the person who shared the method.

 

[checkouttime]

You do understand its not all mental some people are physically struggling and will forever be in pain so it is their choice. You can also pay over 3k to ctb professionally? medically? so I don't see your point.

Adults make their own decisions. Also because people have shared methods it has put me off wanting to ctb for now, I personally am thankful for those posts, buuuut if I wanted to ctb I can because it would be MY decision and not encouragement from the person who shared the method.

Its not like you can't go on the suicide wiki to find out plenty of methods and info either or the DW!! its the internet you can find anything you want. people make it out like you wouldn't be able to find information if this site wasn't here. absolute BS

 

[raindrops]

Its not like you can't go on the suicide wiki to find out plenty of methods and info either or the DW!! its the internet you can find anything you want. people make it out like you wouldn't be able to find information if this site wasn't here. absolute BS

Right! I already knew how I wanted to ctb it wasnt this site that suggested anything, when I did read of more methods here I personally found them to be a lot of pissing about you know SN and other things. As for calling 111/999 or the doctor I dont want to be locked up for my thoughts ty very much or offered pills :/
I'm glad this site exists no one else understands.

 

[checkouttime]

Right! I already knew how I wanted to ctb it wasnt this site that suggested anything, when I did read of more methods here I personally found them to be a lot of pissing about you know SN and other things. As for calling 111/999 or the doctor I dont want to be locked up for my thoughts ty very much or offered pills :/
I'm glad this site exists no one else understands.

exactly. you go on plenty of well known sites and buy books like 5 last acts, final exit etc. plenty of info in them. you can buy the PPH. its all very easily available.

people want to get off their high horse and stop thinking they are GOD. can't imagine many of them after they do 'save' someone , follow them for the rest of their lives making sure they never get depressed again.....so basically they want to stick a 'band aid' over someone with depression. then onto the next person to get a quick ego boost

 

[NeverGoodEnuff]

I am positively pro-choice! But...

Last night, I was in a thread where the OP was actively CTBing. It is not the first time I have been present but it is the first time I had the following thoughts and feelings.

Are we the crowd on the ground shouting "Jump! Jump! Jump!"? It sorta felt that way.

I wanted to tell the OP, "Just wait, things may get better." At the same time, I thought, "Really? How did that make you feel when that was said to you?"

And, of course, I questioned the above because I strongly believe each to his own so it became a "put your money where your mouth is" situation.

I wonder if some people would not kill themselves, at least at that moment, if they did not have an audience.

Some very basic feelings have come forward. I will have to think through this. This is my confession and I am not sure I like myself much for this.
Edit: One tends to think through the lens of personal experience. I know that, for me, I get some relief from doing something, almost anything. And there is, strangely, relief in planning, organizing the CTB. You get involved in that. So, carrying that forward, when one is actively posting their CTB and getting responses from others in a group, is that person truly thinking of what they are doing, or are they so involved in the machanics and succeeding in the activities required and the caring positive responses, that the finality isn't top most in their mind...you see? And there is no way for responders, who are probably doing their best to be supportive, to know for certain.

I hate when I feel this confused. When there seems to me to be no right or wrong answer.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

I am positively pro-choice! But...

Last night, I was in a thread where the OP was actively CTBing. It is not the first time I have been present but it is the first time I had the following thoughts and feelings.

Are we the crowd on the ground shouting "Jump! Jump! Jump!"? It sorta felt that way.

I wanted to tell the OP, "Just wait, things may get better." At the same time, I thought, "Really? How did that make you feel when that was said to you?"

And, of course, I questioned the above because I strongly believe each to his own so it became a "put your money where your mouth is" situation.

I wonder if some people would not kill themselves, at least at that moment, if they did not have an audience.

Some very basic feelings have come forward. I will have to think through this. This is my confession and I am not sure I like myself much for this.
Edit: One tends to think through the lens of personal experience. I know that, for me, I get some relief from doing something, almost anything. And there is, strangely, relief in planning, organizing the CTB. You get involved in that. So, carrying that forward, when one is actively posting their CTB and getting responses from others in a group, is that person truly thinking of what they are doing, or are they so involved in the machanics and succeeding in the activities required and the caring positive responses, that the finality isn't top most in their mind...you see? And there is no way for responders, who are probably doing their best to be supportive, to know for certain.

I hate when I feel this confused. When there seems to me to be no right or wrong answer.

I can relate to all of that.