How would you reply to this post?

[thetwilightzone]

Saw this on /r/ depression in response to a pro-choice suicide thread. Interestingly, it was downvoted.

"Suicide causes far more pain than it prevents and that's why it's wrong".

Don't agree with this but what I want to know why "suicide survivors" always believe their grief is worse than the person who ended their life. It's a pretty arrogant statement to make imo.

 

[Gray Wounds]

It causes pain to those who are guilty and worthy of such pain. Whoever posted that must've been one of those guilty, ignorant, arrogant humans out there who just want to say something without proper cause.

I agree with your perspective regarding that matter.

 

[Justanotherconsumer]

I think it depends on the situation. Like that singer who had six children, rich af with everything to live for, if extended to a poor mans kids they may all wind up as wards of the state, although that may still depend on the situation, such as pending criminal conviction ect,ect.

 

[Threads]

The whole argument that suicide is selfish is null and void.

My typical response to people who say that is the middle finger.

 

[ultraviolet sin]

Saw this on /r/ depression in response to a pro-choice suicide thread. Interestingly, it was downvoted.

"Suicide causes far more pain than it prevents and that's why it's wrong".

Don't agree with this but what I want to know why "suicide survivors" always believe their grief is worse than the person who ended their life. It's a pretty arrogant statement to make imo.

I think the poorest arguments are crafted out of a guilt-trip.

"Oh no, don't leave me, I'll kill myself." -rando example lol.

But in addition, I know I'm a minority, but I am lessening my global impact, being conscientious about my exit, and do genuinely believe that death is the solution to suffering, mental or otherwise.

ESSENTIALLY: the opposite of selfishness. Perhaps later in their lives they'll think of me and not demonize themselves for thinking of suicide.

I feel for my mourners but I suggest that they respect my decision to TRY to challenge public perception of suicide as not so taboo.

 

[Tiburcio]

I am too pro-suicide to judge proplerly sorry.

 

[ultraviolet sin]

Don't agree with this but what I want to know why "suicide survivors" always believe their grief is worse than the person who ended their life. It's a pretty arrogant statement to make imo.

I think that every person is their own most important protagonist in their life, and it might just be a lack of objectivity. Because yes, odds are the person who commits suicide didn't want to burden you with their baggage or cause undue concern. Basically, they don't know what grief they went through to make that decision. It almost seems like the survivors could be "offended." Grief is confusing.

I've never grieved a loss by the way; might explain my specific view on it.

 

[Final Escape]

Yea that is annoying. I hate when people say stupid shit like that. Most of the time when I hear about people's suicides or death who I've known and liked I'm over it fairly quickly. I don't really dwell on it. There was one person who's death really bothered me and that one still sticks but otherwise I just get over it. Most people in my life I'm not very close to as it is so it will not bother them much. It's not like we lived together for years and had serious bonds. I can kind of understand actually loving parents who lose their kid to suicide. They might never get over it, but if somebody was not very significant in your daily life or pretty regularly involved in your inner circle. Doesn't really effect much then.

 

[skitliv]

Death causes pain, nothing new under the sun

 

[agreement]

Let's do the math.
I'm going to kill myself because I can't stand the "pain" (any kind: physical, psycological, philosophical: any kind);
Are my suicide survivors going to kill themselves for this? Mostly not, really rarely.
Why? Because if it worked that way humankind would have been already extinct.
The first suicide ever in history happens, the suicide survivors kill themselves because the pain of survive a suicide is always enough to let anyone commit suicide (because it's major than the pain of first suicide himself) and so on:
humanity extinct!

 

[Life sucks]

Pain and grief aren't stuff for comparison. But I don't agree with "arrogant".

 

[Maggotymaggots]

I'd ask how exactly they're able to objectively compare the suffering of different people.

Yeah, I think it's very arrogant to assume the "survivor's" suffering is always worse than that of the person who was driven to end their life. Unfortunately, this seems to be an assumption a lot of pro-lifers make. Don't get me wrong, it's far from easy for the friends and family of someone who's committed suicide, but people don't just kill themselves on a lark, their suffering's often immense.

I think another issue is that most people have trouble empathizing with those they can't relate to. Most people can relate more to someone who's lost someone than they can to a suicidal person, so they see the former's suffering as being "worth" more.

 

[MAIO]

Saw this on /r/ depression in response to a pro-choice suicide thread. Interestingly, it was downvoted.

"Suicide causes far more pain than it prevents and that's why it's wrong".

Don't agree with this but what I want to know why "suicide survivors" always believe their grief is worse than the person who ended their life. It's a pretty arrogant statement to make imo.

Much of the pain from suicide is caused becuase they do not respect the act of suicide. It's so weird to say suicide is wrong becuase I don't respect suicide. They know the person would be better off alive, their selfish whatever else. Like seriously, how could i take that seriously? Fuck you.

 

[Life sucks]

Looks like I misunderstood what OP asked. I thought it was suicide survivor vs people who made them like that.

I don't think so, sure surviving can lead to more hell but not always. Probably some turn to pro lifers after failing or the painful attempt make them lose their rationality. This is not something comparable at all and its completely illogical to think like that.

 

[maktubler]

From the survivors perspective though, they are still stuck in this life and as much as they avoid accepting it, you are gone and are the lucky one because your struggle is over. They might feel like you are selfish because what makes your suffering more valid than theirs. If they are going to keep suffering why wouldn't you keep on with them in some kind of solidarity. You left because you thought your pain was more relevant than theirs. You had the idea that you could opt out early.

Just playing devils advocate here...

 

[thetwilightzone]

Much of the pain from suicide is caused becuase they do not respect the act of suicide. It's so weird to say suicide is wrong becuase I don't respect suicide. They know the person would be better off alive, their selfish whatever else. Like seriously, how could i take that seriously? Fuck you.

As well as that, it's based on this believe that

1.) every life is precious regardless of the circumstances (even though society doesn't value people equally)

2.) the only acceptable death is that of old age

3.) the attitude of "keep on going"

In other words, life is a cult.

 

[MAIO]

From the survivors perspective though, they are still stuck in this life and as much as they avoid accepting it, you are gone and are the lucky one because your struggle is over. They might feel like you are selfish because what makes your suffering more valid than theirs. If they are going to keep suffering why wouldn't you keep on with them in some kind of solidarity. You left because you thought your pain was more relevant than theirs. You had the idea that you could opt out early.

Just playing devils advocate here...

No the person left becuase they thought they would be better off dead than alive. What's so wrong with that?? Life has no proven purpose and evreyone is going to die anyways. You should just suffer for no reason, for something we do not know is worth it becuase others don't respect our descion?

 

[maktubler]

No the person left becuase they thought they would be better off dead than alive. What's so wrong with that?? Life has no proven purpose and evreyone is going to die anyways. You should just suffer for no reason, for something we do not know is worth it becuase others don't respect our descion?

You are right. You must know that the suicidal see the world from an almost completely inverse perspective. The fact that they think death is better than life makes their thought process totally irreconcilable with the living. So while the living are thinking they chose something worse, the suicide thinks they chose the better. The grass is not greener but in fact is two totally different colours depending on what side you are standing.

All this to say that the two perspectives cannot be reconciled.

Fuck the police!

 

[MAIO]

You are right. You must know that the suicidal see the world from an almost completely inverse perspective. The fact that they think death is better than life makes their thought process totally irreconcilable with the living. So while the living are thinking they chose something worse, the suicide thinks they chose the better. The grass is not greener but in fact is two totally different colours depending on what side you are standing.

All this to say that the two perspectives cannot be reconciled.

Fuck the police!

What bothers me is the other side is so dishonest. Instinct to live means evreyone actually wants to live, evreyone regrets suicides we don't have to provide a source etc. It's ludacris. I can't trust a side that is not trustworthy. One of the biggest movment in mental health couseling etc is the zero suicide initiative. Which just straight up lies about suicide. They claim all suicide is preventable should be prevented, is a result of despair etc.

 

[Tiburcio]

What bothers me is the other side is so dishonest. Instinct to live means evreyone actually wants to live, evreyone regrets suicides we don't have to provide a source etc. It's ludacris. I can't trust a side that is not trustworthy. One of the biggest movment in mental health couseling etc is the zero suicide initiative. Which just straight up lies about suicide. They claim all suicide is preventable should be prevented, is a result of despair etc.

No the person left becuase they thought they would be better off dead than alive. What's so wrong with that?? Life has no proven purpose and evreyone is going to die anyways. You should just suffer for no reason, for something we do not know is worth it becuase others don't respect our descion?

I think I love you.