Discussion How would family dynamics change if a child were free to CTB any time its life became too unpleasant?

[MyStateKilledMe]

Disclaimer: the use of the pronoun "it/its" has nothing to do with liberal politics. It's about how parents don't see their child as a real person, but rather as... well, see below. And by "child", I mean a minor. I know we don't allow minors to join, but nothing prohibits talking ABOUT minors CTB'ing.

It's no secret that most parents are narcissists. That is, they have kids for two reasons only: (1) to have cute doll to play with when their kid is little, and (2) to have a weak powerless creature to boss around when their kid gets older. Not only that, they want the "creature" to give them bragging rights to the neighbors and the society at large. Namely, the ability to brag that they raised a kid that does whatever it's told and brings home perfect grades. And when the "creature" fails to deliver in that regard, they take it as a personal affront, and "retaliate" against the "creature" very harshly. (Read: abuse it.)

While the "cute doll" doesn't really feel its misery due to its immature age, the "weak powerless creature" most certainly does. And the parents delight in the fact that the "creature" has no legal way to escape their home. Other than suicide, of course. I myself made suicide plans since I was 6.

Well, what if that weren't the case? What if s kid could easily CTB any time its life became too difficult to bear? That is, he/she could no longer meet his/her parents' expectations, and thus could no longer cope with being "punished" (read: abused) day in and day out. What if the parents could instantly lose the kid to suicide the moment they became too abusive? Would the parents start treatinh the kid with actual human respect? Would they suddenly see their kid as an honest-to-god real person, rather than a subhuman object that follows their commands and brings home perfect grades?

Treat the CTB'ing and the steps leading up to it as a black box process. That is, don't worry about its mechanics or legal logistics; just consider the beginning (a suicidal child) and the end (the child's funeral). If you wish for a specific example, let's say every school had an on-site euthanasia clinic a kid access any time. And for homeschooled kids, a euthanasia service they could call like 911/999/112, where armed euthanasia workers could "make a house call" minutes later. They'd use a tactic to temporarily incapacitate the parents, and euthanize the child to end its misery.

In the end, the child would have a reliable way to escape an abusive home, and the parents would have a disincentive to abuse the child too harshly.

 

[CommitSudoku]

Well, what if that weren't the case? What if s kid could easily CTB any time its life became too difficult to bear? That is, he/she could no longer meet his/her parents' expectations, and thus could no longer cope with being "punished" (read: abused) day in and day out. What if the parents could instantly lose the kid to suicide the moment they became too abusive? Would the parents start treatinh the kid with actual human respect? Would they suddenly see their kid as an honest-to-god real person, rather than a subhuman object that follows their commands and brings home perfect grades?

Considering the parents in question who'd treat their children this way in the first place, I think some would use the child's death as a means to elicit pity/sympathy from others and build their own narrative how they wanted it to be seen. I think parents who might have had better intentions but didn't realize what they were doing would feel guilt and probably change. For some parents I think it could change things, others not so much.

I feel something like this could lessen abuse but make it persist more constantly at lower levels. It's hard to say really and I think it would depend again on who the parents are. But I also feel such an option would be bad since children are irrational and thus would be given an outlet to get back at their parents when they might not fully understand what it means to actually die. I could just see some children using it as, since they did something bad and were upset at their parents for disciplining them, now they have something to hold over their parents to control them. Some punishments are necessary but children don't necessarily always realize this since at the time they're too young/emotional/etc. So I think it would be a very bad standard. Interesting to consider though.

 

[MyStateKilledMe]

I feel something like this could lessen abuse but make it persist more constantly at lower levels. It's hard to say really and I think it would depend again on who the parents are. But I also feel such an option would be bad since children are irrational and thus would be given an outlet to get back at their parents when they might not fully understand what it means to actually die. I could just see some children using it as, since they did something bad and were upset at their parents for disciplining them, now they have something to hold over their parents to control them. Some punishments are necessary but children don't necessarily always realize this since at the time they're too young/emotional/etc. So I think it would be a very bad standard. Interesting to consider though.

There's nothing wrong with having checks and balances. Hey, it works for the three branches of the US government. (Well, not really.) Parents have unrestricted power over their children, and children are basically property, with no legal meals of escaping an abusive or miserable home. Letting kids CTB any time their misery level becomes too high gives them real leverage: no parents wants to lose a child they spent time and money to raise. That will mean they'll have to go through the pregnancy, the childbirth, the hospital bills, the diapers, and the sleepless nights all over again, if their existing child CTB's. (Although in accounting, that's a logical fallacy, as any money already spent is a sunk cost and cannot be recouped.)

This is why child abuse is so common: it's more cost-effective for the parents to emotionally break their existing child and shape it into their imagined ideal, than to let it CTB and conceive a new one, and child euthanasia clinics don't exist. Not to mention, a dead child can't give the parents the child tax credit like a living child can. At least not until they have sex, wait nine months, endure the childbirth, and pay the hospital bills all over again.

Like many emotionally abused children, I saw myself as my parents' property. Which is why I'm describing my childhood self using tax accounting terms. But unlike actual property, I knew I could die and stick it to them. I hoped to hit them where it really hurts: their bank accounts and the childbirth pain.

 

[MyStateKilledMe]

Something just occurred to me, as this thread popped into my head.

If we can't provide kids access to The Bus, then we absolutely MUST give them what's basically legal training, starting in first grade and becoming more advanced in each grade level. That is, educate them on these things:
* The foster care system as a whole
* Who they can talk to in the first place (teachers and school counselors are usually OK, but family the-rapists are garbage; see below)
* What the Child Protective Services agency does, and how it serves kids and teens
* The fact that teens are eligible for "Child" Protective Services as well
* The fact that Adult Protective Services also exists for people 18+ living with their parents
* How to talk to Child Protective Services agents in maximize the chances of removal from the abusive home
* What constitutes abuse and what doesn't
* How to act when the police and the social workers come to take them
* Which agencies to contact in the event of abuse and how
* What will happen when they're pulled out of their abusive families
* How their lives will improve in the new family

More importantly, the training has to be done by LAWYERS, not counselors or the-rapists. The latter do more harm than good; they not only waste the patient's time, but they also side with the parents and enable the abuse to continue. In fact, they pretty much emotionally rape the patient and say it's for the patient's own good; hence the nonstandard spelling.

This is a good alternative, although far from a perfect one, to letting kids CTB on their own accord.

 

[rationaltake]

Something just occurred to me, as this thread popped into my head.

If we can't provide kids access to The Bus, then we absolutely MUST give them what's basically legal training, starting in first grade and becoming more advanced in each grade level. That is, educate them on these things:
* The foster care system as a whole
* Who they can talk to in the first place (teachers and school counselors are usually OK, but family the-rapists are garbage; see below)
* What the Child Protective Services agency does, and how it serves kids and teens
* The fact that teens are eligible for "Child" Protective Services as well
* The fact that Adult Protective Services also exists for people 18+ living with their parents
* How to talk to Child Protective Services agents in maximize the chances of removal from the abusive home
* What constitutes abuse and what doesn't
* How to act when the police and the social workers come to take them
* Which agencies to contact in the event of abuse and how
* What will happen when they're pulled out of their abusive families
* How their lives will improve in the new family

More importantly, the training has to be done by LAWYERS, not counselors or the-rapists. The latter do more harm than good; they not only waste the patient's time, but they also side with the parents and enable the abuse to continue. In fact, they pretty much emotionally rape the patient and say it's for the patient's own good; hence the nonstandard spelling.

This is a good alternative, although far from a perfect one, to letting kids CTB on their own accord.

This should be put into practice straight away. And the-rapists is so apt.

An incredible thread. Thought-provoking.