How to induce damage to your amygdala?

[sserafim]

How do you damage your amygdala? I heard that damage to your amygdala could protect you from PTSD. It seems beneficial and advantageous to have a damaged amygdala because you'd have no fear response

 

[nevermeant2b]

I guess it would take a lot to damage it?

 

[ferrie]

Could you share where you heard that damaging your amygdala could protect you from PTSD? I haven't heard of that.

It would be really hard to target damage to one area of the brain, especially for someone who isn't an expert in neurology. Damage to the amygdala also has a lot of risks for emotional & behavioral regulation. It's common to experience excessive fear & irritability because your ability to process memories is impaired, your emotions can be a lot more intense, and you make a lot more high risk low reward decisions

 

[sserafim]

Could you share where you heard that damaging your amygdala could protect you from PTSD? I haven't heard of that.

It would be really hard to target damage to one area of the brain, especially for someone who isn't an expert in neurology. Damage to the amygdala also has a lot of risks for emotional & behavioral regulation. It's common to experience excessive fear & irritability because your ability to process memories is impaired, your emotions can be a lot more intense, and you make a lot more high risk low reward decisions

You know, there is this patient known as SM who suffered from a disease that caused her temporal lobe to be calcified. This resulted in bilateral damage to her amygdala. She went through a lot of traumas in life, including nearly being killed in a domestic abuse situation to being robbed at gunpoint, yet she was someone who mainly experienced mostly positive emotions throughout her life and who describes mainly feeling anger and being upset about those things, rather than showing the typical trauma-responses that would be expected.

Spoiler: Some excerpts from an article on her

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3030206/

The reason I mention her is because she's a good example of why you cannot judge people's suffering based purely on events that caused it. Everyone's ability to handle adversity thrown their way is different. Some people can through horrific life events and are able to pull through while others may struggle to handle things we don't consider to be that bad. When my parents divorced, for example, it didn't have that big of an impact on me. I was upset for a bit and then I moved on. Meanwhile, a girl I knew from high school opened up about how her parent's divorce led to both her and her brother developing depression (both diagnosed) and that the reason she hadn't been going to school as much was because of it. It really annoys me how there are people on here who refuse to acknowledge this and go out of their way to invalidate the suffering of others on here and make it out to be a competition.

Suffering and trauma isn't about what happened to you, it's about how said thing has affected you.

 

[nevermeant2b]

Is this what lobotomy used to do or am I thinking the wrong part of the brain?

 

[Agon321]

I propose to overcome fear in a slightly more conventional way.

But I admit it's interesting.
Maybe we can create an army of sadistic and sociopathic soldiers in the future. Interesting perspective.
Of course, simply removing the amygdala is not enough.
My inner Doctor Mengele spoke out in me.

 

[drearysunrise]

I do remember a journal article within the last few years that was proposing the idea of laser surgery to ablate the amygdala as a PTSD treatment, but it was unilateral (can't remember which side). Afaik it's never actually been performed for PTSD itself, but a couple of people had it done to prevent epileptic seizures and reported that it reduced their PTSD symptoms. Really interesting to think about but needs a lot more research. I definitely don't think it would be possible to do to yourself that way

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I think if you're willing to intentionally cause brain damage to yourself then your amygdala is already a non issue for you.

 

[justwannadip]

How do you damage your amygdala? I heard that damage to your amygdala could protect you from PTSD. It seems beneficial and advantageous to have a damaged amygdala because you'd have no fear response

Ya the brain is much more complex than certain regions having unilateral functions and consequences. While the amygdala places a big role in fear response, just damaging it or removing it would cause a host of issues that would likely leave you much worse than when you started.

There are more invasive procedures like deep brain stimulation, and ECT that have shown efficacy in treatment resistant cases of psychiatric disorders like depression, ocd, and ptsd, but are usually used as a last resort and are thus hard to qualify for and are quite expensive. In incredibly rare and extreme cases things like amygdalotomy have been performed but there isn't much evidence of it being helpful for psychiatric disorders. tFUS or transcranial focused ultrasound is a lesser known method that is being researched on that is similar to TMS in that it involves non-invasive stimulation that modulates brain region activity, but tFUS has the potential to reach deeper subcortical regions like the amygdala whereas other methods like TMS cannot.

Honestly, as much as I wish there was something that could just erase my intense pain and anxiety, our understanding of the brain is so minimal compared to the complexity of the organ, and many potential treatments for psychiatric disorders are underfunded. It seems like for many years to come, medication will still be pushed and treatments for complex psychiatric disorders will likely only target managing symptoms as opposed to any cure or finding the root cause.

 

[ferrie]

That's really interesting. Reading that actually rings some bells, so I think I have heard of it. I don't think there is a surefire way to perfectly replicate her situation though. There's no guarantee that the same type of damage would make someone's brain react the same way. Also not responding in a typical way to traumatic events can just be a hallmark of emotional disregulation. I'd take the case report as more meaning that she didn't experience fear in the same way mentally healthy people do, not that her experience was more positive. While PTSD is hard to live with, not experiencing any fear can be dangerous

 

[EvisceratedJester]

If a lack of fear and stress response was so advantageous then we wouldn't have evolved to feel those things in the first place. S.M. has been in a lot of dangerous situations before partly due to the damage to her amygdala. Fear is what helps to keep us from danger. It's a response that's so advantageous that we evolved to feel it. Your amygdala plays a role in emotional learning, memory modulation, socializing, etc, so damaging it will fuck you over. While those like S.M. may have had some advantages due to their damaged amygdala, they have also had the struggles they have had to face as a result of it.

 

[untothedepths]

If you figure out how, let me know. I could at least stop being a coward and instead focus on being a total worthless-brainless-should-have-been-aborted-failure.

 

[sserafim]

I think if you're willing to intentionally cause brain damage to yourself then your amygdala is already a non issue for you.

Maybe my amygdala is already damaged...who tf knows lol

 

[jbear824]

Not sure that would have the effect you desire. The amygdala is responsible for emotional regulation. Damaging it could make it even harder for you to deal with your emotions, making them far more painful.

It's actually one of the factors for why BPD is so hard to manage. Brain studies on people with BPD have shown that people with BPD have smaller sized amygdalas, contributing to our extreme difficulty with emotional regulation.

I'm not sure damaging yours would be as beneficial as you think.

 

[surroundedbydemons]

because you'd have no fear response

Wouldn't it be better to have control over your fear rather than simply not feeling it?

I read somewhere that SSRIs can cause emotional blunting. You might look into that.

~~~

Maybe we can create an army of sadistic and sociopathic soldiers in the future. Interesting perspective.

I think it's possible. The military likely screens for such traits through personality tests already, as they could be advantageous in combat. The biggest problem is that individuals with these traits would most likely have fewer offspring due to their reduced sensitivity to fear.

I wish gene editing would allow that to happen...

 

[Agon321]

Wouldn't it be better to have control over your fear rather than simply not feeling it?

I read somewhere that SSRIs can cause emotional blunting. You might look into that.

~~~

I think it's possible. The military likely screens for such traits through personality tests already, as they could be advantageous in combat. The biggest problem is that individuals with these traits would most likely have fewer offspring due to their reduced sensitivity to fear.

I wish gene editing would allow that to happen...

Yes, that's the first thing I thought of.
I am convinced that unofficially scientists are researching such topics.

But on the other hand, a person who does not feel fear is not necessarily a good soldier.
Such a person may make very stupid tactical mistakes.
So the effect will be the opposite of what was intended.

But maybe creating a special military formation of such people would be a good idea.
Sadists are also useful, so you can create an army whose main task will not be tactical combat with the enemy, but sowing terror, for example, among civilians.

This is a very interesting topic.
Our brain is fascinating.

 

[divinemistress36]

The Amygalda is an asshole. Ptsd in itself causes brain damage to it

 

[KillingPain267]

It's a very simplistic way of looking at what parts of the brain are responsible for PTSD symptoms. Everyone's brains are different and other parts of the brain can rewire to produce similar, or worse, fear responses. This is why brain surgery is very rare for psychiatric illnesses, simply because neurology is still so underresearched.

 

[Throwawayacc3]

Sorry, the topic immediately reminded me of the water boy and alligators with their medulla oblongatas.

 

[divinemistress36]

Sorry, the topic immediately reminded me of the water boy and alligators with their medulla oblongatas.

My stroke was in my Medulla this makes me laugh

 

[Throwawayacc3]

My stroke was in my Medulla this makes me laugh

Mama says girls are THE DEVIL!

 

[Z-A]

I think it's better to have it function than the opposite. Who knows what effects it'll have on your emotional stability.

 

[Cinnamorolls]

Is this what lobotomy used to do or am I thinking the wrong part of the brain?

Lobotomy severs the prefrontal cortex (top front of the brain). Amygdala is in the bottom middle.

Maybe we can create an army of sadistic and sociopathic soldiers in the future. Interesting perspective.

A sociopathic soldier wouldn't be of much use. Sociopaths don't feel any genuine emotions, which includes loyalty or faithfulness. There's a high chance they will just do whatever they want and turn on their bosses.

 

[astr4]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6156129/

this was specifically for epilepsy but amygdalotomies are a thing.

edit: also adding this — https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28072743/

less than a decade ago

 

[Throwawayacc3]

You can't be serious... All it will give you is a personality disorder (or multiple) and anhedonia. The "ptotection" from trauma comes from being dissociated 24/7 and unable to feel anything at all (including pleasure). Even then, it just makes one unable to feel stressed or anxious, not traumatised (it removes the "S" from "(C)PTSD" but not the other letters).
Having one's amygdala damaged in utero also often results in one's body map becoming massively fucked up unpredictably altered, apparently, so I assume damaging it even after it is fully formed might still cause sensory and motor issues.
0/10, wouldn't recommend.

Odds of 0/10 doesn't seem appealing to me. Removing stress but keeping all the other crap doesn't resolve things either.

Fuck my life - rating: -3/10

 

[Throwawayacc3]

I was initially going to give it a "-10/10" rating, but then I suddenly recalled that it makes one appear unaffected and mysterious in stressful situations and changed it to "0".
The body map issues are a solid -∞/10, however.

It's always . Hell…… lol.

 

[KillingPain267]

A sociopathic soldier wouldn't be of much use. Sociopaths don't feel any genuine emotions, which includes loyalty or faithfulness. There's a high chance they will just do whatever they want and turn on their bosses.

Yeah, it's the bosses who are the sociopaths

 

[willitpass]

If a lack of fear and stress response was so advantageous then we wouldn't have evolved to feel those things in the first place. S.M. has been in a lot of dangerous situations before partly due to the damage to her amygdala. Fear is what helps to keep us from danger. It's a response that's so advantageous that we evolved to feel it. Your amygdala plays a role in emotional learning, memory modulation, socializing, etc, so damaging it will fuck you over. While those like S.M. may have had some advantages due to their damaged amygdala, they have also had the struggles they have had to face as a result of it.

This here covers a lot of what I would already say. The amygdala does more than just control the fight or flight response. It impacts your memory, it has a role in the production of certain hormones, and controls certain autonomic responses (involuntary but important body functions such as heart rate). It even plays a role in your ability to interpret body language from others. All this to say, damaging it will lead to hormonal imbalance, memory impairment, and your fight or flight response will be so impaired that you won't be able to sense any danger at all and will end up in even more dangerous situations as a result. Yeah, maybe you'll impair your memory and fear response to traumatic events, but you also may not be able to remember your favorite song, what that super good ice cream you tried was, or what you planned on doing with your day tomorrow on vacation. You may forget any positive memories you have and may struggle to make any more.

This aside, if you somehow still wanted to do this, you couldn't. There is no way to intentionally self-induce brain damage to a specific part of your own brain. Unless surgical (and even still then), brain damage is wild and unpredictable. You don't know what part of the brain will get injured by what impact and to what degree that damage will be. Neuroplasticity is an incredible thing, people have endured EXTENSIVE brain damage and still manage to maintain and recover impossible levels of brain function. On the contrary, people endure relatively minor damage and are severely impaired for life. And this damage can mean anything from personality changes, motor dysfunction, inability to produce language and/or understand language properly, vision or hearing damage, etc, to full on brain death. The amygdala would be exceptionally impossible to induce damage to by yourself as it is located in the limbic system in the center of the brain. It is essentially nestled deep inside, cushioned by all of the outer brain matter. You couldn't reach it if you tried.

Overall a bad idea, and impossible to achieve even if you wanted to.

 

[thatwasit]

Mama says girls are THE DEVIL!

4ft8 redheads, sweetest little devils