How to actually prevent suicide (vent)

[stilldreaming]

Been gone for a bit, just saw the thread about the NYT article and am so upset. People get a bit myopic (and hysterical) when it comes to topics like suicide; this is completely reflected in how coverage of this website / topic occurs.

So, to them, I gather this is how they want to prevent suicide:

1. Limit access to info about suicide methods as much as possible
2. Hotlines for all / trust in the system that is clearly failing people, because elsewise this website wouldn't be here. I mean, all therapists and psychiatrists are equal, right? (***raise your hand if you've ever had counseling / psychiatric help***)

Meanwhile, if you go to the CDC, they have a graphic of Strategies to Prevent Suicide, at the top of which is, importantly, "Strengthen economic supports" (https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/facts/index.html).

There are real systemic problems out there that Congress could focus on, and fixing that should be the priority. Yes "mental health" needs to be addressed, but it is so clear that so many people are at a breaking point due to unmanageable stress levels, that then lead to latent mental health problems developing or worsening. So let's treat the cause, not the symptoms.

And just to be clear: there will always be people who struggle with serious mental health issues, and of course supporting them is a priority. It's just, I've lived outside the US for years and it is shocking how many people here are barely keeping things together, simple things like paid time off would be such a game changer and I'm certain would lead to less strain on our mental health resources.

Years ago (2009) I read an article that skyrocketing housing prices and healthcare costs were putting the greatest strain on the American middle class. Vienna has demonstrated how amazing rent-controlled renting can be, not to mention, the government can invest in housing projects to increase the supply of housing (and so lower the cost). And M4A should've been passed decades ago. It's high past time too we started teaching students about eg the importance of community and coping / mental resilience skills. (Added bonus, might help stop some students from going off the rails)

But no, let's focus time and resources on going after this website. Because, y'know, hotlines.

That Marquis or anyone from this website could be spoken of in such a way is sickening, when I'm pretty certain this might be the most caring website on the internet. Rant over. Hope everyone is safe x

 

[Gordy99]

I'm new here and just wanted to say that as screwed up as the NYT article was...it's the reason I found this great community.

 

[stilldreaming]

I'm new here and just wanted to say that as screwed up as the NYT article was...it's the reason I found this great community.

Well silver lining I guess! Sorry I was just ranting, but it does upset / scare me, articles like that. I came across this website a few years ago but didn't join until last August, specifically because there were a couple articles last summer attacking this website. (Those articles specifically didn't name this website to avoid directing traffic here)

And I do understand it from the viewpoint of the grieving families, as that was me in my teenage years. It's reflexive for anyone grieving to say, "If only this / that etc" to try and imagine things would turn out different. I get that. But seeing as how this website is possibly the only support system for so many people out there - and they want to take it away...?

Attacking this website is just so short-sighted, a ham-fisted attempt to solve a problem they don't really want to think about. This website will always be a symptom of the problem, not a cause.

And, I get that most thoughts of suicide are transitory. Millions of people have thoughts of suicide per year, but most don't even plan it out let alone act on it. And sure I get their reasoning: make suicide difficult so that someone who eg just had a bad breakup doesn't do something that normally they wouldn't contemplate.

But y'see, that's why education is again so key. To teach self-awareness and basic psychology in schools. We're all going to have dark days and horrible things that happen to us in life. What matters is what we do about it, and how we respond it. Teaching students healthy coping mechanisms I think should rank about the Pythagroean theorem, ngl.

 

[Braindead Atheist]

Been gone for a bit, just saw the thread about the NYT article and am so upset. People get a bit myopic (and hysterical) when it comes to topics like suicide; this is completely reflected in how coverage of this website / topic occurs.

So, to them, I gather this is how they want to prevent suicide:

1. Limit access to info about suicide methods as much as possible
2. Hotlines for all / trust in the system that is clearly failing people, because elsewise this website wouldn't be here. I mean, all therapists and psychiatrists are equal, right? (***raise your hand if you've ever had counseling / psychiatric help***)

Meanwhile, if you go to the CDC, they have a graphic of Strategies to Prevent Suicide, at the top of which is, importantly, "Strengthen economic supports" (https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/facts/index.html).

There are real systemic problems out there that Congress could focus on, and fixing that should be the priority. Yes "mental health" needs to be addressed, but it is so clear that so many people are at a breaking point due to unmanageable stress levels, that then lead to latent mental health problems developing or worsening. So let's treat the cause, not the symptoms.

And just to be clear: there will always be people who struggle with serious mental health issues, and of course supporting them is a priority. It's just, I've lived outside the US for years and it is shocking how many people here are barely keeping things together, simple things like paid time off would be such a game changer and I'm certain would lead to less strain on our mental health resources.

Years ago (2009) I read an article that skyrocketing housing prices and healthcare costs were putting the greatest strain on the American middle class. Vienna has demonstrated how amazing rent-controlled renting can be, not to mention, the government can invest in housing projects to increase the supply of housing (and so lower the cost). And M4A should've been passed decades ago. It's high past time too we started teaching students about eg the importance of community and coping / mental resilience skills. (Added bonus, might help stop some students from going off the rails)

But no, let's focus time and resources on going after this website. Because, y'know, hotlines.

That Marquis or anyone from this website could be spoken of in such a way is sickening, when I'm pretty certain this might be the most caring website on the internet. Rant over. Hope everyone is safe x

this is how you ACTUALLY prevent suicide; let people vent without judging, ditching them or calling them negative. 2 try to fix their problems or find someone wo can. 3 let them know they're valued/you care.

 

[stilldreaming]

Oh something else that I wish those people would know about this website: just because we're pro-choice doesn't mean we don't care when people exit. I've seen how much effort people on this website have put in when they think someone is going to exit for the (and I hesitate to use this word but) "wrong" reasons. (eg a bipolar episode) I just can't imagine a volunteer-staffed hotline putting in so much effort to reach out and look after someone.

I think the vast majority of people here definitely want the very best for everyone who comes here, to have a cessation of their suffering and ideally to become healthy and happy and all that. The problem is, in our society most of us can only accept physical pain as a reason to exit, not mental. We just simply don't differentiate. There should be limits to how much people have to suffer. And maybe one day the mental health field will catch up and be able to fine-tune treatments for more types of disorders, but saying to someone they should have to stick around 30-40 years on the slender hope that treatments might catch up to their disorder...I don't understand how they can decide so easily that it's okay for another person to suffer so long, simply because of their own feelings in regard to suicide.

There's no way to prove it, but I do wonder if this place is more effective at helping people than suicide hotlines. If for no other reason than that it's a caring, supportive community, and having that is one of the most important things in life. You can't get that from a suicide hotline. This place is so kind to people in crisis, and that others want to take it away is cruel.

 

[Snake of Eden]

Branding suicide as a mental health problem by those in charge of the narrative is a very clever way of diassociating their poltician peers from any responpnsibility to act to change anything substantial about status quo that is advantageous to them and highly harmful to the rest of society. Addmitting that suicide is largely a result of socioeconomic policies among other risk factors under the control of the powers that be, will open the eyes of the masses and they would start to demand pressure to change the way things are and that is will cause decrease of profit margins of the elites and lets face it, they feel entitled to growing their wealth indefinitely and wont stop at anything that stands in their way.

 

[stilldreaming]

socioeconomic policies among other risk factors under the control of the power that be, will open the eyes of the masses and they would start to demand pressure to change the way things are and that is will cause decrease of profit margins of the elites and lets face it, they feel entitled to growing their wealth indefinitely and wont stop at anything that stands in their way.

Certainly won't find any disagreement from me there. Not when you have eg Sen Manchin saying he doesn't support policies that will benefit normal Americans for fear of creating an "entitlement society" when meanwhile for decides his family coal business has taken money hand over fist from the government. Rules for thee but not me all the way.

A friend of mine who's family briefly had her committed several years ago to an in-patient center.....she's been perfectly fine since then. Why? A little over a year later, married a fellow who can support her quite nicely. No more financial worries though, ha, I guarantee you that isn't what would've had her committed, y'know? Because she had a job, albeit just an hourly one. It's amazing though how much your stress evaporates when suddenly you get to live in a nice house, don't have to worry about things like groceries or even going to a job. (She has recently started making stuff on etsy, after a few relaxed years of being ...not quite a housewife as her husband cooks, but she bakes I guess? When she feels like it? And plays video games...)

I read once that a lot of people who might eg have a disposition to bipolar disorder, they might never have it manifest. But, there's a reason people usually have their first episodes in their 20s/30s, because that's when there is a lot of stress. Sooo it's like, genes might load the gun, but life pull's the trigger. And, I can't help but feel the 'trigger' is being pulled a lot more often these days.

Such an inefficient use of their time, advocating for the removal of this website. If they truly wanted to to save lives, they'd be focusing on M4A. There was that Harvard study awhile back that estimates up 30k Americans every year die from not seeking medical treatment. I remember there was that moment during Bernie Sanders' campaign when a man said he had a ton of medical debt, and was considering suicide. (Suicide from medical debt! Only in America ffs) And Bernie reacted with such compassion.......but I dunno, that's one reason I have no faith in people. Even when they have the chance to support someone who actually cares for them, they'll choose Manchin and Biden and Obama any day of the week.

sigh sorry for the rant :(

 

[Snake of Eden]

A friend of mine who's family briefly had her committed several years ago to an in-patient center.....she's been perfectly fine since then. Why? A little over a year later, married a fellow who can support her quite nicely. No more financial worries though, ha, I guarantee you that isn't what would've had her committed, y'know? Because she had a job, albeit just an hourly one. It's amazing though how much your stress evaporates when suddenly you get to live in a nice house, don't have to worry about things like groceries or even going to a job. (She has recently started making stuff on etsy, after a few relaxed years of being ...not quite a housewife as her husband cooks, but she bakes I guess? When she feels like it? And plays video games...)

I read once that a lot of people who might eg have a disposition to bipolar disorder, they might never have it manifest. But, there's a reason people usually have their first episodes in their 20s/30s, because that's when there is a lot of stress. Sooo it's like, genes might load the gun, but life pull's the trigger. And, I can't help but feel the 'trigger' is being pulled a lot more often these days.
….

sigh sorry for the rant :(

Not at all. I loved all you had to say. I believe in what you say %100. I dont even know where to begin to address how upside down is the mentality behind suicide prevention and overall disease causes. All what I do on this website is to try and open people's eyes about what is really happening and what I think is wrong with the world. Even as a prochoice myself, I think focusing too much on suicide as the be all end all solution to life problems is radically problematic. If society allows medical euthanasia for all without genuinely addressing the preventable causes that leads to it, it will be a form of voluntary holocaust and i am not exaggerating one bit. Sadly, making these types of discussions with people who are suffering and all what they think about is how to make it stop, feels futile as they cant see anything other than their pain and they could care less about how to fix the real problems and I dont blame them at all. It is just sad situation.

 

[stilldreaming]

Sadly, making these types of discussions with people who are suffering and all what they think about is how to make it stop, feels futile as they cant see anything other than their pain and they could care less about how to fix the real problems and I dont blame them at all. It is just sad situation.

Yes, this is why I think we need education reform before we can advance as a society. I was never one of those students who'd ask "why do we have to learn this" as I always valued education for education's sake. However, that said, until we structure education to focus on (in my uninformed opinion): self-awareness, empathy, communication and critical thinking skills, too few people will feel comfortable having discussions about topics they disagree with. And what with social media providing such wonderful echo chambers, it's becoming harder and harder for people to have actual conversations with people they disagree with. Practically impossible, really as politics are dividing families, so many not even wanting to have Thanksgiving together.

The thing is, all the people they disagree with - what's to be done with them? If they could be put on a different planet erm fine then, but failing that, we'd better learn how to have constructive conversations. Which means being aware of our own feelings so that we don't start mindlessly arguing and insulting.

So yeah, I don't see the point really in trying to shove as much math and science down a student's throat when they'll grow up to another red team/blue team "can't talk with anyone I disagree with" -type person. Oh and perhaps most importantly, someone who doesn't care (or understand) how important it is to get money out of politics.

Because that's the thing, we'll never get nice things in a society so long as legalized corruption like lobbying and huge campaign contributions are allowed. No M4A, no paid time off, let alone actual legislation that will y'know help save our planet before yet more climate change wars begin.

Education reform + money out of politics = a possible happier future (and habitable planet). Maybe who knows, I am quite hopeless in regard to it all. Most people are quite content with petty tribalism sigh :(

Though yes ofc in regard to medical euthanasia - sure it's fun to joke about the Futurama suicide booths but obviously I don't many people here would actually want that. But something like in Belgium, where you need three doctors to sign off, and years of cooperative treatment - well it comes down to the "limits to suffering" we believe in. This is the sort of conversation we should be having. eg whether it should be three doctors signing off + 5 years of treatment, or 5 doctors signing off + 10 years of treatment. Heck I'm sure a lot of people on here would agree to clauses like "not before the age of 40" or something if it meant they could be guaranteed a peaceful end.

Oh well it's nice to dream isn't it? Gotta have dreams right :(

Thanks for listening! We're very lucky to have a mod like you :)