How prolifers really missed the mark when it comes to addressing the 'problem'

[TAW122]

Perhaps I'm preaching to the choir, but we all know the paternalistic means that prolifers, preventionists, and prohibitionists use to control, impose, and stop us (pro-choicers) from exiting our suffering on our own terms. They really just don't get it (or rather, refuse to; especially the hardliners and the ones who DO understand but will never accept CTB as a valid choice and always see it as a invalid and irrational choice) as they continue to talk about preventing this one action, one choice, by any means necessary and at all costs.

Instead of addressing the why, the cause, let alone take action to address the underlying causes (if applicable), or respect another person's decision to check out, they resort to lame platitudes and inane solutions while acting in bad faith and delusionally believe that they are doing "good".

Various examples of such behaviors and actions:
Some examples of this is whenever there is a special time during the year, be it a month, the holiday season, and/or certain days, it is just so infuriating to hear and see.

On Septmber 10th of each year (or just the month itself), there are oftenly people who spout such filth on their social media not because they genuinely care about others, but they just want Internet points for their lazy actions and instead of addressing the cause and the reason(s) that people want to CTB, they just post a number while patting themselves on the back and telling themselves (in their minds or subconsciously) that they done a good deed. It couldn't be further from the truth.

Here are some example classic scenarios to illustrate the ignorance and laziness of prolifers:

Example #1:
Person wants to CTB because of xyz reason and gives details. The prolifer immediately responds that CTB is never an option nor an answer, while ignoring the CTBperson's wishes or why said person wants to CTB. Meanwhile, for people like us (pro-choicers) while we don't pressure said person to 'live' nor to 'die', we recognize and see the person's reasoning and choice as valid options and respect bodily autonomy.

Example #2:
Similar to the first example, a person wishes to CTB for whatever reason he/she gives. Unlike the first example, the prolifer takes a slightly different approach. First the prolifer gives advice (whether it is relevant or useful is another point altogether) and then afterwards still staunchly stand by the fact that CTB is never an option. In this example though, we (pro-choicers) still maintain our stance that it is an option and that we respect said person's choice, whether it is to find the solution and persevere in life or just give up and not have to continue the grind of suffering, thus sparing oneself from (potential) future harms.

I think most of you get the idea of how things goes when it comes to how prolifers treat the concept of CTB and those who see it as a valid option. Finally, if pro-lifers really want to prevent those violent attempts (both successful and unsuccessful ones), then they should really address the causes of people wanting to CTB, and failing that, accepting CTB as an valid option. By doing so, that would allow people who may have chosen to CTB to perhaps live longer especially knowing that CTB is a valid option and the threat of forced treatment, medication, and detainment against one's own will no longer possible.

 

[FuneralCry]

I just don't think that anyone has any right to say that suicide is wrong for someone else, they are not experiencing that person's life and they cannot do. We all experience life differently and all have different limits as to what we can cope with. It's a personal decision when to leave. I think that it's best to not have conversations about this with people who could never understand in any way, it would only make things worse and lead to invalidation. I think that a lot of people are in denial of the cruel reality of this existence and how for many people life is simply not worth living.

 

[IntoTheLight]

Until we have a perfect cure for all diseases and a way to repair damage caused by aging, drugs, injury or disease unfortunately CTB remains the only rational choice left to many people. Maybe we'll get there one day, but keeping on suffering for decades on the slim hope that we'll figure out solutions to all the reasons why people CTB is a pretty hard sell.

 

[Justnotme]

I still have rage and huge pain inside because a person close to me, after I told about my worldview and about my heartache, started insulting me with all possible options
This person said that I was evil, that I was disgusting, that it was disgusting to communicate with me, that I was boring because I didn't know how to enjoy life, that I was toxic and that I was a whiner, that no one would communicate with me because I was always whining and that I didn't thank life.
He said I was the worst person he had ever had to deal with. AND MY RELATIVE SAID THAT.
When I once again quit my job because of my condition, I ate almost nothing for a month, then I stopped going to the toilet at all, I didn't get out of bed, I had fainting spells when I was lying all the time and I only slept and sometimes was on the Internet. I lost a lot of weight and I was incredibly pale
And seeing my condition, this person came to my house and started telling me that I was 24 years old (at that time I was 24, now I'm 25), and I don't work and I'm sitting on my parents' neck
He said he was incredibly ashamed of me and that he wasn't proud of me at all.
He is ashamed to tell his acquaintances and friends about what's wrong with me, how I'm doing in life. Instead, he replies that I am either working or looking for a job.
He said that he hoped that I would become a NORMAL person, and not an incomprehensible one

This is the most brutal "fighter for life", who is my relative, with whom I had to deal.
He puts me on a par with the killers of animals and people, rapists, although I am just a person who is always in pain and who cannot cure the world and the human mind of the ability to cruelty

 

[FuneralGrey]

CTB is hard to conceptualize, let alone rationalize, when you aren't in that situation.

Even being "pro-choice," as I am, I (and many/most people on this forum) recognize that people shouldn't impulsively CTB. Having a conversation about CTB and "preventing this one action, one choice, by any means necessary and at all costs" is legitimate when it comes to stopping someone who is in an acute crisis situation and who, if you can keep them safe for even a few hours, will quickly lose interest in the thought of attempting. There needs to be a distinction between impulsive CTB and carefully planned CTB.

Extreme pro-lifers won't ever recognize a legitimate reason to die, including terminal illness. Nevertheless, such reasons do exist, especially when it comes to those who chronically, constantly want to CTB – but these people are the exception, not the rule, so of course most of the attention when it comes to prevention is not aimed at them.

I think part of the problem with what you're describing is that you're somehow expecting the people who are preventing CTB to also come up with the solution. Very often, well-intentioned laypeople or low-ranking professionals are the "boots on the ground" telling you not to CTB. When it comes to addressing root problems, oftentimes this is a systemic issue or can only be dealt with by a professional who works in a non-crisis setting. It's really hard to address root cause while you're dealing with someone who acutely wants to die. You can't change a flat tire while your vehicle is in motion.

At the end of the day, you always ultimately have control over the decision to CTB or not, short of involuntary detention or legitimate physical impairment (and even then...).

 

[TAW122]

@FuneralCry Absolutely on point. Many people just don't comprehend how life can be very cruel and unforgiving. In addition to this, it could be that subconsciously people know that life is irrational and meaningless, but to accept that reality would mean that they have to confront death which goes against their upbringing, indoctrination (socialization when growing up in society), and view that life is great and life is valuable, thus they do everything and anything they can to avoid the topic or the idea itself. One of my philosophy professors (over a decade ago when I was in university) once stated that humans avoid the topic of death as oftenly as possible and during their life they do everything and anything they can to distract themselves from death (which is inevitable). This is not exact quote but the idea is there.

@IntoTheLight Yes, there are many problems that have no solutions to them, and even if there, the question then would be "is it worth it?" which is a value call by the individual and the individual only.

@IamVerySad I'm sorry to hear that the people around suck and are not empathetic towards your suffering. I hope you cut that person out of your life. Many people in life are like that, just normies and plain old NPCs.

@FuneralGrey Well said, especially that there must be a distinction between impulsive CTB and carefully planned CTB. Even with a carefully planned CTB, people still view it as a wrong choice and the line continues to remain blurred with the hard stance of CTB is wrong, it is never an option, and should be prevented, stopped at all costs, which is a continuous problem even to present day. In addition to this, another nitpick is moving goalposts, even for people who (initially) agree that the right to die for certain circumstances (severe illness and disability, terminal illness, and unbearable suffering), it seems like they agree said person should have the right and that person should push it off to a later time, then when that later time comes, the goalposts move again, hence ignoring the fact the person met their previous goalpost/milestone. That is the most insulting part and personally I think there should be processes in place that further ensure the person's wishes and rights are honored and not half-assed honored (which is in turn a joke of a system). Regarding the last statement, it is true but the fact that one has to go through many hoops and unnecessary pain, suffering, just to get a way out is what is wrong with society. I don't believe we would have to have this movement or platform if CTB and death were not taboo, voluntary euthanasia was more accessible (with less hoops and hassles), and people actually respected true bodily autonomy.

 

[Install-Gentoo]

I still have rage and huge pain inside because a person close to me, after I told about my worldview and about my heartache, started insulting me with all possible options
This person said that I was evil, that I was disgusting, that it was disgusting to communicate with me, that I was boring because I didn't know how to enjoy life, that I was toxic and that I was a whiner, that no one would communicate with me because I was always whining and that I didn't thank life.
He said I was the worst person he had ever had to deal with. AND MY RELATIVE SAID THAT.
When I once again quit my job because of my condition, I ate almost nothing for a month, then I stopped going to the toilet at all, I didn't get out of bed, I had fainting spells when I was lying all the time and I only slept and sometimes was on the Internet. I lost a lot of weight and I was incredibly pale
And seeing my condition, this person came to my house and started telling me that I was 24 years old (at that time I was 24, now I'm 25), and I don't work and I'm sitting on my parents' neck
He said he was incredibly ashamed of me and that he wasn't proud of me at all.
He is ashamed to tell his acquaintances and friends about what's wrong with me, how I'm doing in life. Instead, he replies that I am either working or looking for a job.
He said that he hoped that I would become a NORMAL person, and not an incomprehensible one

This is the most brutal "fighter for life", who is my relative, with whom I had to deal.
He puts me on a par with the killers of animals and people, rapists, although I am just a person who is always in pain and who cannot cure the world and the human mind of the ability to cruelty

I can relate to this 150%.