How have people reacted when you revealed you are into antinatalism?

[noname223]

Years ago I was very much into antinatalism. I am not that much into it anymore. But the stigma could be a reason. And some people I admire on an intellectual level would disagree with it completely. Many call antinatalism crazy.

I think the antinatalism which argues life contains more negative than positive still has a very bad reputation. But the climate change antinatalism gains more and more popularity. I am as always too obsessed what other people think of me. Of course I would never procreate with my conditions but it does not feel good trying to influence friends intentionally into that direction. I had the feeling I pressured some of them and I think that was not right. I can imagine that one friend of mine would feel way more satisfied with life if he had a family.

So I shared my antinatalism beliefs with my friends. Most debates were years ago but I think both of my friends developed in my direction mostly because of climate change and own conditions. I shared my views online but that is way different to the real life.

I cannot remember all occasions when I opened up about it. But one time is pretty vivid in my memory. I was in a clinic and me and the therapist hated each other. Maybe that is exaggerated but we had a very bad chemistry. I think she thought of me as arrogant and I thought of her as presumptuous. We really disliked us and it was pretty obvious. She told me more or less that I am deluded and if I tried to hold a job I could simply do it. She said that despite the fact I was fired for being a complete mess at work. She did not know anything. I have to admit she was right with college as an idea. But this was not her idea in the first place and some of my predictions like manic symptoms became true.

So our relationship was a mess. She said something like maybe you want kids one day. (I cannot remember the specific context). Then I said I am pretty sure I will never have kids. I told her I was antinatalist (to that time I somewhat lost my interest in it - it were rather rational considerations why I never wanted kids, I think I kind of said it to annoy her). She never heard of it before. When I explained it to her she was kind of shocked. And told me no wonder you are depressed with this nihilistic belief system. This were not exactly her words but I paraphrased it).

So I wasted so much time (and space) from you for this reveal. I know it is not that stunning. But I think she thought of me as insane because I told her that. I even had the feeling she felt kind of offended.

I think these emotions are not that seldom. When I debated some people with kids on antinatalism years ago they were so triggered and offended. For them it was a personal attack. Many get angry or even sad. There was one time another guy in my self-help group mentioned he believes in antinatalism and another woman was deeply offended by it. She wants kids and does not want that anyone gives her a guilty conscience for that. I could go on. But I don't have any interesting stories to share. I cannot remember my debates on it. I think one reason I lost interest in antinatalism were jokes like these people could not even procreate if they wanted to. However now when I remember it my last crush in a clinic (she was super cute I think we would have fit perfectly) she was into antinatalism too. My fucking ill psychotic brain ruined it.

So there is no sense in going on. That is too much off-topic. Can you share some interesting stories?

 

[Fulminare]

Nice to see some discussion about antinatalism. I discovered this philosophy five years ago and was first a bit taken aback, but decided to read some literature about it. It all made click and I decided to go vegan because of efilism.

I think your therapist was ignorant towards the topic since antinatalism is all about holding certain beliefs and morals - nihilism is the opposite of that. It quite literally rejects any moral principles one might hold. There's a difference between acknowledging that life's negatives outweigh the positives and believing that all values hold no meaning. But that's just my opinion.

When it comes to the debates I've had, I think most people's initial reaction is curiosity and hostility. Some get very angry, especially if this concept is foreign to them prior to the discussion. I once had a man become absolutely livid, he started to threaten me. But I'd say that rarely ever happens. I met many young people who were already following this philosophy without even knowing it.

I've also met parents who are into antinatalism. Do they love their children any less? No, of course not. But they discovered this after they had kids and decided to support the cause. My father was the same. They always held good debates too.

It's all about how you communicate your stance. There's a time and place for things like these. Bringing this up at the family's dinner table is like social circle suicide speedrun any%. But talking to people one on one, when they know it's about a sensitive topic, will do wonders. I had the most positive experiences like that. It's the same with veganism, or any other philosophy you could think of.

 

[LastFlowers]

Poorly. So I avoid it unless in a place where I know it's acceptable to speak about.
Haven't really aired the notion to anyone around me besides my mother.
I don't even need the label, the philosophy and the general idea speak for itself..and should really go without saying considering who it would be coming from (me).

There has been a birth in the family recently and I don't know how to respond without being disingenuous.
I did not say "Congratulations" and wonder if that will be taken in a bad light.
I did the best I could, said what I could in the moment (after a sleepless night from hell)..
as the person whose child it is..is a family member I was very close with growing up.

I have mixed feelings and even hatred/bitterness/resentment for most, if not all of my family..they make it impossible to open up, and when I do..I am dismissed or talked around.
Also the disparities between our circumstances, namely physically and otherwise, are just too different.
Stark contrast. Humiliatingly so.
I live in a completely, unenviable universe compared to them. It is incredibly distressing..I can barely begin to describe it.
It's surreal. It is torture.
But this person who had the child is still someone I wish I could have seen/been around more, if I didn't have the detriments I do…I grieve many familial relationships that could have been had, if things were different, or if I had a different sort of problem..or maybe if they had the same problems and could relate to me.
Despite my anger and despair about how I had to be the one to be stuck with what I do..I still cannot seem not to care.
I always give damns.
One way or another.
About my family and relatives of origin.
It makes things that much harder for me..because the favor is not returned nor understood.. and I usually have to betray myself in order to be in their good graces, even as a barely perceivable entity in the shadows.
It kills me.

I don't know if said person I was referring to earlier, with the new child, is able or willing to grasp how horrible things are for me..not even in vagueness..or maybe my long message to them was cut off. It's hard to say and I'm afraid to ask.
Since I actually was able to contact them recently, after not having any opportunity to speak with them for a very long time, as I don't see anyone anymore (for my own sanity) and they're not a phone-centric person.
(I am afraid to reach out first because I don't want people to get the wrong idea or accidentally over extend myself and then disappoint someone.)
I responded honestly when they said they hope I am doing well…I know it's a common thing to say to people you haven't spoken to, but I thought my relatives all knew that I obviously was not doing well.
Otherwise, all these years and years and years..it would have come across as if I was avoiding them for no reason..which would be a horrible thing to miscommunicate.
I don't see ANYONE. I don't go ANYWHERE (besides the grocery store).
I have had NO LIFE.
I blame my mother partially for telling people I'm "fine" if they ask, so she can avoid any possible inferred responsibility for my misery.
Something she denies saying now.
Well anyhow, I was honest and told this person I have been doing terribly, but that they can still contact me in other ways, even though I won't go out.
I tried to "lol" and make light afterward about a slightly less related topic- like I always do, since misery (and my taboo brand in particular) always seems to make things awkward.

After the birth of the child, they gave me the news..and because I always cared so much for this person..it was even harder to be fake..so I tried my best not to be.
But I feel so strongly about "antinatalism" and all the roads that led me there…
I responded in kind, but worded things in a way..that probably came across as unusual or lacking.
I'll probably continue to worry about it, along with everything else I have to keep closed in on myself.

 

[toomuchtimetodie]

Most people are snidy and have a secret love for the suffering of other human beings. Especially ones they believe they've created, it gives them that God almighty feeling. Pathetic sadistic scum.

 

[rabid_aspie_yokai]

Years ago I was very much into antinatalism. I am not that much into it anymore. But the stigma could be a reason. And some people I admire on an intellectual level would disagree with it completely. Many call antinatalism crazy.

I think the antinatalism which argues life contains more negative than positive still has a very bad reputation. But the climate change antinatalism gains more and more popularity. I am as always too obsessed what other people think of me. Of course I would never procreate with my conditions but it does not feel good trying to influence friends intentionally into that direction. I had the feeling I pressured some of them and I think that was not right. I can imagine that one friend of mine would feel way more satisfied with life if he had a family.

So I shared my antinatalism beliefs with my friends. Most debates were years ago but I think both of my friends developed in my direction mostly because of climate change and own conditions. I shared my views online but that is way different to the real life.

I cannot remember all occasions when I opened up about it. But one time is pretty vivid in my memory. I was in a clinic and me and the therapist hated each other. Maybe that is exaggerated but we had a very bad chemistry. I think she thought of me as arrogant and I thought of her as presumptuous. We really disliked us and it was pretty obvious. She told me more or less that I am deluded and if I tried to hold a job I could simply do it. She said that despite the fact I was fired for being a complete mess at work. She did not know anything. I have to admit she was right with college as an idea. But this was not her idea in the first place and some of my predictions like manic symptoms became true.

So our relationship was a mess. She said something like maybe you want kids one day. (I cannot remember the specific context). Then I said I am pretty sure I will never have kids. I told her I was antinatalist (to that time I somewhat lost my interest in it - it were rather rational considerations why I never wanted kids, I think I kind of said it to annoy her). She never heard of it before. When I explained it to her she was kind of shocked. And told me no wonder you are depressed with this nihilistic belief system. This were not exactly her words but I paraphrased it).

So I wasted so much time (and space) from you for this reveal. I know it is not that stunning. But I think she thought of me as insane because I told her that. I even had the feeling she felt kind of offended.

I think these emotions are not that seldom. When I debated some people with kids on antinatalism years ago they were so triggered and offended. For them it was a personal attack. Many get angry or even sad. There was one time another guy in my self-help group mentioned he believes in antinatalism and another woman was deeply offended by it. She wants kids and does not want that anyone gives her a guilty conscience for that. I could go on. But I don't have any interesting stories to share. I cannot remember my debates on it. I think one reason I lost interest in antinatalism were jokes like these people could not even procreate if they wanted to. However now when I remember it my last crush in a clinic (she was super cute I think we would have fit perfectly) she was into antinatalism too. My fucking ill psychotic brain ruined it.

So there is no sense in going on. That is too much off-topic. Can you share some interesting stories?

I hate when ppl say antinatalism is nihilistic. I care about literally everything and everyone. My mom thought it was the first signs of my depression or that I'll grow out of it. It was almost as difficult as me coming out as nonbinary and asexual

 

[AnnonyBox]

They basically told me they thought I was fucked in the head for not gambling on someone else's life, and then said they didn't want to put any more effort into talking to me. I just blocked them both yesterday. Reproduction is immoral and I will not be convinced otherwise.