Discussion How can you wholeheartedly be a theist of any sorts whilst you're on a suicide forum?

[imontheloose]

You've been beaten and gagged by God to the point you ask others the best way to remove yourself from God's gift (life), yet you keep faith in them? For what reason?

DNI if you will simply reply "I don't believe in God now, but I'm culturally [insert religion] due to family indoctrination": I am wanting to hear from believing theists. Deists are welcome to enter the discussion too, but the question posed isn't much relevant to them.

The idea of God is a clear leftover of early human thought. It's deeply unimpressive thinking. As we progressed in our understanding of that which is around us, we consistently began to deny God's existence more and more. That's why Isaac Newton believed in God, whilst it is borderline consensus amongst modern scientists (particularly physicists) that God doesn't exist.

Best excuse I can think of is that it's an unconscious coping mechanism humans still carry to prevent themselves from kicking the chair after realising they suffer the same burden of the existential elk. It is of no doubt that early humans couldn't reason life's complexities and were far too preoccupied with more important tasks of survival to truly reason God's (un)likelihood.

 

[OnMyLast Legs]

One fun aspect of my mental illness is a lot of Catholicism made its way in. I had a few fervent conversions, even saying the rosary + going to Mass daily last summer. I have meditated on the pains and eternity of hell, the mind-blowing joy of the beatific vision, and many ways to defend the faith against obvious objections.

I think the thing about religion is it's all song and dance. It is indeed some of the strongest mind-programming stuff...if you're just talking. If you're using the scientific method, not so much.

 

[imontheloose]

One fun aspect of my mental illness is a lot of Catholicism made its way in. I had a few fervent conversions, even saying the rosary + going to Mass daily last summer. I have meditated on the pains and eternity of hell, the mind-blowing joy of the beatific vision, and many ways to defend the faith against obvious objections.

I think the thing about religion is it's all song and dance. It is indeed some of the strongest mind-programming stuff...if you're just talking. If you're using the scientific method, not so much.

Religious conversion seldom occurs in a stable mind. Often times, the person is under great psychological stress and religion acts as a new identity they can cling onto for help. Similar to how humans would initially cling to a new clan if they could. As I said, an unconscious coping mechanism.

EDIT: ignore.

 

[imontheloose]

bump

 

[Winry]

I think, perhaps I cannot answer this from my current mindset, as I am no longer religious. But if I may bring up my past "Christian" way of thinking, I would explain it as this:

I was here because, as much as I believed in God, I believed in free choice regarding one's body. The Bible is not so cut and dry like people make it out to be. You are free to interpret your own understanding from whichever version you choose. Therefore, I never had the rigid thinking most Christians do. I had the explicit belief that people had the right to do with their body whatever they chose, including the right to suicide, provided they try everything they could before resorting to it.

I only kept my faith for so long, because praying into the void made me think some omnipotent being was listening and guiding me. I thought I had the support of my church community. (Newsflash, you never do. No matter who you are. Performative caring is all the church community is.) It gave me a sense of belonging. The rush I felt from such intense "positive" emotion from so many people when I went to church was addicting. The way I could abandon any and all attempt at fully comprehending or learning anything by saying things like "God has my back"/"It's an act of God"/"We might not understand God's actions but he has a plan." These little phrases subconsciously taught me to be complacent and not want for anything more, when...well...I should absolutely want more. I should want to have more and learn more and grow more as a person. The more you think about it, the more you realize that you are prohibited from these very things if you are entrenched deep enough into whichever theist cult you choose.

I fear that education is what finally broke the remaining ties I had to my religion. I went to college, made friends with non-religious folk and was shown that these other people made decisions without consulting the church or praying and they were fine. They didn't get struck down. When I realized one day that nothing was happening because of God, rather because of my own actions and decisions, I stopped believing. There wasn't any point. There never will be a point to religion, other than keeping the masses brainwashed and complacent. One of the reasons ex addicts and alcoholics cling so hard to newfound religion after the 12 Step program is because religion can act as a new addiction for them.

Oh and also, I had religious OCD from ages 5-21, that may have (definitely did) played a part.

 

[imontheloose]

I think, perhaps I cannot answer this from my current mindset, as I am no longer religious. But if I may bring up my past "Christian" way of thinking, I would explain it as this:

I was here because, as much as I believed in God, I believed in free choice regarding one's body. The Bible is not so cut and dry like people make it out to be. You are free to interpret your own understanding from whichever version you choose. Therefore, I never had the rigid thinking most Christians do. I had the explicit belief that people had the right to do with their body whatever they chose, including the right to suicide, provided they try everything they could before resorting to it.

I only kept my faith for so long, because praying into the void made me think some omnipotent being was listening and guiding me. I thought I had the support of my church community. (Newsflash, you never do. No matter who you are. Performative caring is all the church community is.) It gave me a sense of belonging. The rush I felt from such intense "positive" emotion from so many people when I went to church was addicting. The way I could abandon any and all attempt at fully comprehending or learning anything by saying things like "God has my back"/"It's an act of God"/"We might not understand God's actions but he has a plan." These little phrases subconsciously taught me to be complacent and not want for anything more, when...well...I should absolutely want more. I should want to have more and learn more and grow more as a person. The more you think about it, the more you realize that you are prohibited from these very things if you are entrenched deep enough into whichever theist cult you choose.

I fear that education is what finally broke the remaining ties I had to my religion. I went to college, made friends with non-religious folk and was shown that these other people made decisions without consulting the church or praying and they were fine. They didn't get struck down. When I realized one day that nothing was happening because of God, rather because of my own actions and decisions, I stopped believing. There wasn't any point. There never will be a point to religion, other than keeping the masses brainwashed and complacent. One of the reasons ex addicts and alcoholics cling so hard to newfound religion after the 12 Step program is because religion can act as a new addiction for them.

Oh and also, I had religious OCD from ages 5-21, that may have (definitely did) played a part.

I understand this from the Christian perspective since it's not a rigid faith, it's why I didn't include Hinduism in OP since the latter isn't exactly a religion really: you can basically be an atheist yet still a Hindu. Nonetheless, doesn't the ambiguity and vagueness of the Christian faith almost act against it? If you can interpret it to equal two extremes, as we always see, and all in between, then it's not exactly its own separate definition.

Perhaps the comforting idea of God is all people have. In many ways, I wish I were religious for that sake. To be blissfully deluded into believing something cared about me, even if it meant I justified all the hell on Earth. I think religious delusion is one of the only ways to recover, honestly. You cannot change your identity easily and religion/occultism is one of the few ways you can. People who recover usually carry the same burdens and thoughts as before, they either don't have the guts to shotgun their head off anymore (or never did), or they adopted some strange existential/absurdist thought to cope. The latter is practically a faith in itself. If you can become deluded enough in X faith, you'll be totally fine accepting everything on the basis of no evidence - very dangerous thinking, yet it works.

It does seem to be that the only suicidal people believing in God do so 1) unknowingly, and 2) as the brain's final stand against itself.

Thanks for the reply, lovely. Nicely thought out and conveyed. <3

 

[overmorrow]

because deluding yourself will always feel better than hard facing the truth

 

[OnceTheHappiestMan]

Well if you philosophycal take is inspired by the gnostics extreme platonism like the cathars did. Viewing the physical body as an evil creation of the devil, they believed suicide was a noble, spiritual escape from the material world to free the soul, often performed via voluntary starvation reserved for the perfect christians

 

[Bootleg Astolfo]

I mean, if you believe he fucking hates you or that you deserve his divine punishment, yeah

 

[piercedheart]

Religion has always been an excuse to do bad things. In this case it could be a way to divert blame away from one self, or justify it. "God must hate me, it's all his fault. I was made this way." etc Its easier to accept your situation if its bad not being your fault, so you can easily give up, since something divine caused it so might as well end it.

theism by its very nature, is not logical and relies fully on being delusional.

 

[imontheloose]

I mean, if you believe he fucking hates you or that you deserve his divine punishment, yeah

Which would mean you have left that faith since they all (mainstream theist ideologies) promote that God loves all. This idea God hates one is often used by nonbelievers, including me. It's not meant to literally mean they believe it.

Religion has always been an excuse to do bad things. In this case it could be a way to divert blame away from one self, or justify it. "God must hate me, it's all his fault. I was made this way." etc Its easier to accept your situation if its bad not being your fault, so you can easily give up, since something divine caused it so might as well end it.

theism by its very nature, is not logical and relies fully on being delusional.

If you can believe in something with no evidence, it justifies just about anything. No surprise the worst crimes are committed under the guise of religion.

 

[Bootleg Astolfo]

Which would mean you have left that faith since they all (mainstream theist ideologies) promote that God loves all. This idea God hates one is often used by nonbelievers, including me. It's not meant to literally mean they believe it.

If you can believe in something with no evidence, it justifies just about anything. No surprise the worst crimes are committed under the guise of religion.

He's condemned you for being evil, and thus, doesnt love you because youre bad. I dunno man, im a fucking astolfo cosplayer, my only braincell is used for looking good in a skirt.

 

[imontheloose]

He's condemned you for being evil, and thus, doesnt love you because youre bad. I dunno man, im a fucking astolfo cosplayer, my only braincell is used for looking good in a skirt.

Made me LOL. Well, I'm sure that one single braincell is proud, don't worry.