Discussion How can something come from nothing?

[death137]

If time can stretch (infinitely) into the future...? Why can't it also... "stretch infinitely" into the past? (Or something along those lines...?)

That way there is no need for a "first exister" ("first mover").

Why not? Merely lack of imagination.

I think infinite past doesn't make sense.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

The balfour declaration is a good example of how this can be brought about

 

[watchingthewheels]

"How can something come from nothing?"

It can't. The premise is flawed.

 

[NormaJeane]

According to Stephen Hawking; Because there is a law like gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessarey to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going. The simplest explanation is that there is no God, no one created the universe and no one directs our fate. According to Brian Greene there can be parallel universes, a hidden reality and endless doppelgängers. According to Albert Einstein it is possible to travel back and forth in time - the past, the present and the future are an illusion! Big bang started the universe, that is what people believe now. But no human can understand everything about the universe!

 

[LifeQuitter2018]

This may sounds very bizarre, but let's say the world exists and doesn't exist at the same time.

Research into Quantum Physics, especially the "Double Slits Experiment", you will see what I mean. In other words, the world only exists because we pay attention to it.

 

[Bauhaus]

Bauhaus said:
you can not reduce your brain to neurons which simply fire/don't fire impulses

Yes you can!

Why? Open it up and that's exactly what we find! AND, we know the structures we find, at least hypothetically, can explain the function/behavior/outputs we see from it.

We have "dual confirmation" from both the "experimental" and "theoretical" sides.

Sure, there could be another explanation... but as of yet, none whatsoever with such strong supporting evidence.

Bauhaus said:
Consciousness is likely the result of your brain as a whole.

I agree: all the components make-up the brain as a whole.

And that's the reason why you can't reduce your brain to neurons, all the structures serve a different function.
While a reductionist view would only apply to some grey mass with neurons but without any structures.

Bauhaus said:
And can you be sure that consciousness can be programmed ?

We don't have the words for "a program without a programer".

It's, as you say, an emergent phenomenon... an " emergent program(s)".

But how can you be sure that "strong" emergence can be programmed ?

Bauhaus said:
I've yet have to hear the first person who can explain how you program an emotion. You can't, it's impossible.

I disagree: What we're currently missing is simply a "user interface". I understand that Elon Musk has a company working on just that.

Will it very primitive and indirect at first? Yes. Can we ever reach a level of "absolute control"? Maybe not.

But none of what we've said so far has given any more weight to an alternative explanation.

You can only program the reason behind an emotion but not the emotion itself.
The reason why we want to survive is because death (from whatever cause) makes as anxious.
The reason we screw is not to procreate but because an orgasm gives as pleasure.
So you could program that an AI has to defend itself to avoid death but you can't program anxiety.
And you could program the AI to make copies from itself as a form of procreation but you can't program pleasure.

Dunno, I feel like you dismiss the idea of (strong) emergence or your definition of it is different.
And maybe you're right, maybe emergence doesn't really exist and we simply lack some 'hidden' data to complete the whole puzzle.
Or maybe there's some 'grand unification theory' that unites quamtum physics (the microcosmos) with emergence (the macrocosmos).
Only time will tell.

 

[unperson]

Some scientist claim that it is possible for something to come from nothing because nothing actually has some stuff in it, it seems. There's some kind of eternal energy which was always there so, religion and some scientist actually have a similar theory! It could be God or simply something which doesn't follow the laws of physics in this universe and our minds can't understand yet.

However, as far as we know, there's gotta be something for something to exist. It's an infinite cycle and it's frustrating because we'll never be able to know the answer. Or maybe we will once we die? Is there actually a God? Are we in a simulation? Is it just...eternal nothingness and no answers?

Yesterday, a member told me we're like Gods for a butterfly with such a small brain which just can't grasp the concept of life, universe, etc. Maybe we're insects to as regards the universe and meaning of life? Is there just...NO WAY OF UNDERSTANDING ANYTHING? No matter how much more we evolve?


Too many questions but no real answers.

What do you think? How can something come from nothing?

So perhaps there's no such thing as nothing..? Like, nothing doesn't actually exist, well I guess it doesn't either way; but I mean that there is only 'somethings' that all originated from other—deceptively seemingly empty—somethings that also originated from somethings. Like black turns white turns black again, etc, maybe the whole universe is an endless fractalized loop that exists in the infinitesimally minuscule coordinate in the center of one of the atoms comprising of the dna structure found in the sperm of some aliens load-blowing jizz being swallowed up by his incestuous cousin, both of who exist in a larger section of this endless universe-containing-alien-jizz-atom-based multiverse fractalization.

In my arrogance I will assert that meaning & purpose are subjective and personal experiences that involve a kind of system of beliefs, values, and narratives; and the most contentment-conducive sense of purpose to be found—for most people, due to evolution—is connection with others: i.e. family and friends and people in general, but especially quality (not as much quantity dependent) family relationships. If we were hunting Buffalo and taking care of each other in a cave we might ponder such things but with an emotionally resilient intellectual frame of mind and not an existentially terrifying hollowness of spirit that current modern society seems to precipitate.

The hilarious irony of religion is that it's the connection—not the arbitrary beliefs —that often fulfills this psychological social need; leading to a confirmation bias and emotional reasoning and some silly intellectualized rationalizing on top to justify cutting off your child's forskin or whatthefuckever.

One thing I admire about Christopher Hitchens is he was a ruthless debater but still had the maturity to have friends with beliefs that he opposed; he knew how to compartmentalize his shit and whatnot.

My question would be what difference would it make in regard to ones values and sense of meaning and purpose if something comes from nothing and also should that change anything? If nothing existed outside of earths timeline and space, why should that make any difference aside from the interesting quality of ones curiosity driven musings?

 

[Sunset Limited]

I really no more care about that shit. A very ingenious architecture, an admirable body ... What for? Unlimited human stupidity. It's like making shoehorn with alien technology. The architecture is superb, but the results are stupid. Maybethis is the zoo of aliens I don't know. I really don't care. This existence is less worthwhile than the last piece of shit that fell out of my ass.

 

[unperson]

I really no more care about that shit. A very ingenious architecture, an admirable body ... What for? Unlimited human stupidity. It's like making shoehorn with alien technology. The architecture is superb, but the results are stupid. Maybethis is the zoo of aliens I don't know. I really don't care. This existence is less worthwhile than the last piece of shit that fell out of my ass.

Hahaha reminds me of this little snippet

 

[motel rooms]

Hahaha reminds me of this little snippet

Just 1 remark: the "gifts" humans have been given aren't real gifts, they've always been a double-edged sword

 

[insanedoomer]

it deppends on yr nothing

 

[Sunset Limited]

Just 1 remark: the "gifts" humans have been given aren't real gifts, they've always been a double-edged sword

My English is poor, I do not understand but he looks like a fun guy

 

[glad it’s night]

I've read that maybe the concept of "nothing" is just a construct of the human mind. Even in the near perfect vacuum of space there are still a few hydrogen atoms per cubic meter. And some say space itself is not nothing. It could be that "nothing" doesn't exist, as it's never been observed, and there is only "something".

Ludwig Wittgenstein suggests that language is the cause of many philosophical problems and paradoxes. I enjoyed reading summaries of his ideas, they are quite interesting.

Wittgenstein's "Philosophical Investigations" Wikipedia page

 

[WornOutLife]

I've read that maybe the concept of "nothing" is just a construct of the human mind.

And that's what makes me feel even dumber!!
I hate not to understand what the hell is really going on due to my "nerfed and limited" mind lol.

 

[wordsonscreen]

Abiogenesis - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

This might help