Discussion How can something come from nothing?

[WornOutLife]

My existential crisis is still here so, let's start with another thread today.
Yesterday, I asked you HERE if we all could actually be the same person. Your answers were awe-inspiring and another question popped up:

How can something come from nothing?

Well, this is practically impossible to answer because how can we talk about the nothingness is there's just nothing in it?

According to Richard Dawkins, in the future, science might give us the answer. For instance, we already know thanks to Charles Darwin that billions of year of evolution made us exist here. Could it possible that in some decades we have an answer for what was before the big bang?

Religious people don't consider this question an issue because they just believe that "God" created everything. If you asked them who created that omnipotent being they'll just said that "no one created God because he/she/it is everything and is beyond time and space".

Here's a crazy fact:

Some scientist claim that it is possible for something to come from nothing because nothing actually has some stuff in it, it seems. There's some kind of eternal energy which was always there so, religion and some scientist actually have a similar theory! It could be God or simply something which doesn't follow the laws of physics in this universe and our minds can't understand yet.

However, as far as we know, there's gotta be something for something to exist. It's an infinite cycle and it's frustrating because we'll never be able to know the answer. Or maybe we will once we die? Is there actually a God? Are we in a simulation? Is it just...eternal nothingness and no answers?

Yesterday, a member told me we're like Gods for a butterfly with such a small brain which just can't grasp the concept of life, universe, etc. Maybe we're insects to as regards the universe and meaning of life? Is there just...NO WAY OF UNDERSTANDING ANYTHING? No matter how much more we evolve?


Too many questions but no real answers.

What do you think? How can something come from nothing?

 

[hfdepression30]

I have nothing meaningful to contribute to this thread, but just wanted to say I'm also very curious and interested in reading about these kinds of theories about life and our existence. As for what I personally think, I can't really say.. who knows

 

[WornOutLife]

I have nothing meaningful to contribute to this thread, but just wanted to say I'm also very curious and interested in reading about these kinds of theories about life and our existence. As for what I personally think, I can't really say.. who knows

I totally agree!
It's such an interesting topic. I could talk about this for ages, especially while drinking booze lol.

 

[Chesswiz2002]

Actually, this bugged me for sometime and eventually, I came to the conclusion that I couldn't care less (lol) because even if there was a God, a deity that would permit such immense suffering on Earth isn't worth worshipping, at least for me.

 

[WornOutLife]

Actually, this bugged me for sometime and eventually, I came to the conclusion that I couldn't care less (lol) because even if there was a God, a deity that would permit such immense suffering on Earth isn't worth worshipping, at least for me.

I wish I could be religious and think that a God created everything and be satisfied with that answer but damn, I just can't lol.

 

[kerokeroka]

Well philosophers might argue that there has never been "nothing" and that there was always something. Maybe there was a whole pure something from which all somethings came from because all somethings were interconnected at one point but as time goes on the somethings became separated.

Is there actually a God? Are we in a simulation? Is it just...eternal nothingness and no answers?

It depends on what your idea of "god" is. I've seen arguments that say god exists but that god doesn't exist as we know gods to normally exist. God rather emerges from the interactions between somethings and is thus the collective manifestations of the unconscious will of all the somethings despite not existing as a something itself (a suprabeing or a being above being). Thus "god" is either how we understand this emergent phenomenon of the will of the somethings or that the whole universe (including us) is a god and that everything in it is the bits and pieces that make up the god. Either way this view is very different than how the christians (except for eastern orthodox christians) or muslims or jews or etc imagine god being.

Are we in a simulation?

Human experience is defined by living in simulations of reality that are only marginally attached to reality. Reality or the real world as we perceive it is just a simulation our brain creates based on what our limited senses interprets to us about its sensations and what our brains limited processing power can do to make sense of it. Human society is defined by trying to conform society so that society simulates concepts within it that don't actually exist as somethings in the real world like Justice, Progress, Legality, Logic and Morality. Everything about human life and human experiences is deeply simulated already so whether or not "real" reality itself is a simulation is irrelevant to us since we cant even hope to leave our simulated reality to experience objectively true reality.

According to Richard Dawkins, in the future, science might give us the answer. For instance, we already know thanks to Charles Darwin that billions of year of evolution made us exist here. Could it possible that in some decades we have an answer for what was before the big bang?

I dont think it is possible for science to answer that question within the next few decades. Or possibly ever. Philosophy might be able to and I think philosophers would argue that the universe has always existed or at least the preconditions for the universe existing have always existed based on the premise that something cant come from nothing and that everything always has something preceding it from which that something originates. This is also where the science regarding the origins of the universe is ever so slightly leaning towards atm.

 

[orlandom]

I totally agree!
It's such an interesting topic. I could talk about this for ages, especially while drinking booze lol.

You promised on Saturday. Did you decide earlier?

 

[WornOutLife]

You promised on Saturday. Did you decide earlier?

haha I'm actually sober!
Imagine the crazy stuff I'll post on Saturday while I'm drunk

 

[Chesswiz2002]

I wish I could be religious and think that a God created everything and be satisfied with that answer but damn, I just can't lol.

We won't be on this forum if we could lmao.

 

[orlandom]

haha I'm actually sober!
Imagine the crazy stuff I'll post on Saturday while I'm drunk

I drink every day after my injury. I feel sorry for myself. But this is the only way I muffle my emotions. I'm glad that you are holding yourself back and working on yourself

 

[lmplsss]

I also think about that a lot but my question is slightly different. My issue with it is that how can time be infinite backwards? If there's a beginning of time then what comes before that? You get what I'm saying?

 

[WornOutLife]

I also think about that a lot but my question is slightly different. My issue with it is that how can time be infinite backwards? If there's a beginning of time then what comes before that? You get what I'm saying?

I certainly do!
I've been watching some videos about time and some experts claim that there's actually no time.
Your past, present and future self are right here but on a different frequency so you can't see them or interact with them.

It's so weird!

Just like when you look at a star in the sky, which doesn't exist anymore but you can see. So weird!!

 

[Symbiote]

I'm gonna take a crack at this at the risk of sounding like a fucking retard....

We all know that the universe was created from the Big Bang, a release of energy and molecules. What caused the Big Bang? Was it God? Was it an intergalactic fart? Or is there another deity or collection of spirits that hold the strings to the universe? My half-assed theory believes that molecules hold energy in the form of memories, thoughts, and dreams. A finite source that once full, it splits off to form another molecule to start anew. We are nothing more than a collection of molecules. At one point of my life, I had thought that I could astral travel. During my travels, there was a tunnel where all energy is transported through the various worlds and galaxies. The tunnel is controlled by a Transporter type deity. A interstellar "god" that controlled everyone's path or jettison anyone curious to unlock the secrets of the universe.

There's other "gods" out there that like to intrude and "inject" events into each molecule. It gets transmitted through our dreams. You know when you have a dream that so surreal and powerful that you keep on thinking about it for years? I had a series of visions like it about 10-12 years ago that I can still vividly recall. So as molecules keep on splitting and creating anew, when does it all end? There's a time limit on this world where all molecules will disperse into other worlds or back into the energy stream. A catalyst helps with arranging molecules for transport into the energy stream. A nucleus is the "ship" that transports and releases into energy through another catalyst's energy. Catalysts are akin to empaths, unique abilities but are sacrificial in nature. We lend our energy to ferry the movement of the nucleus into the energy stream. Empaths have the ability to see into a molecule, right the wrongs. Some molecules are misshapen or malformed, an empath helps make it whole again to prepare for transport at the end. Could this be why we have past lives? Because we're incomplete and past lives help us become whole again with the help of a catalyst or empath?

What happens when the empaths or catalysts energy is expended? They disappear, into nothingness. Created by the energy divine to aid and then made to disappear once again. Catalysts do not move on to the next world because they die with the current.

My brain is tired from trying to type this....

 

[WornOutLife]

I'm gonna take a crack at this at the risk of sounding like a fucking retard....

We all know that the universe was created from the Big Bang, a release of energy and molecules. What caused the Big Bang? Was it God? Was it an intergalactic fart? Or is there another deity or collection of spirits that hold the strings to the universe? My half-assed theory believes that molecules hold energy in the form of memories, thoughts, and dreams. A finite source that once full, it splits off to form another molecule to start anew. We are nothing more than a collection of molecules. At one point of my life, I had thought that I could astral travel. During my travels, there was a tunnel where all energy is transported through the various worlds and galaxies. The tunnel is controlled by a Transporter type deity. A interstellar "god" that controlled everyone's path or jettison anyone curious to unlock the secrets of the universe.

There's other "gods" out there that like to intrude and "inject" events into each molecule. It gets transmitted through our dreams. You know when you have a dream that so surreal and powerful that you keep on thinking about it for years? I had a series of visions like it about 10-12 years ago that I can still vividly recall. So as molecules keep on splitting and creating anew, when does it all end? There's a time limit on this world where all molecules will disperse into other worlds or back into the energy stream. A catalyst helps with arranging molecules for transport into the energy stream. A nucleus is the "ship" that transports and releases into energy through another catalyst's energy. Catalysts are akin to empaths, unique abilities but are sacrificial in nature. We lend our energy to ferry the movement of the nucleus into the energy stream. Empaths have the ability to see into a molecule, right the wrongs. Some molecules are misshapen or malformed, an empath helps make it whole again to prepare for transport at the end. Could this be why we have past lives? Because we're incomplete and past lives help us become whole again with the help of a catalyst or empath?

What happens when the empaths or catalysts energy is expended? They disappear, into nothingness. Created by the energy divine to aid and then made to disappear once again. Catalysts do not move on to the next world because they die with the current.

My brain is tired from trying to type this....

Damn, this is too deep. You've just blown my mind!
So interesting!

 

[signifying nothing]

Seems simple enough mathematically:

0 = 0 (nothing equals nothing)
1 -1 = 0 (something and the opposite of that something also equals nothing)

so maybe everything still adds up to nothing?

 

[orlandom]

My existential crisis is still here so, let's start with another thread today.
Yesterday, I asked you HERE if we all could actually be the same person. Your answers were awe-inspiring and another question popped up:

How can something come from nothing?

Well, this is practically impossible to answer because how can we talk about the nothingness is there's just nothing in it?

According to Richard Dawkins, in the future, science might give us the answer. For instance, we already know thanks to Charles Darwin that billions of year of evolution made us exist here. Could it possible that in some decades we have an answer for what was before the big bang?

Religious people don't consider this question an issue because they just believe that "God" created everything. If you asked them who created that omnipotent being they'll just said that "no one created God because he/she/it is everything and is beyond time and space".

Here's a crazy fact:

Some scientist claim that it is possible for something to come from nothing because nothing actually has some stuff in it, it seems. There's some kind of eternal energy which was always there so, religion and some scientist actually have a similar theory! It could be God or simply something which doesn't follow the laws of physics in this universe and our minds can't understand yet.

However, as far as we know, there's gotta be something for something to exist. It's an infinite cycle and it's frustrating because we'll never be able to know the answer. Or maybe we will once we die? Is there actually a God? Are we in a simulation? Is it just...eternal nothingness and no answers?

Yesterday, a member told me we're like Gods for a butterfly with such a small brain which just can't grasp the concept of life, universe, etc. Maybe we're insects to as regards the universe and meaning of life? Is there just...NO WAY OF UNDERSTANDING ANYTHING? No matter how much more we evolve?


Too many questions but no real answers.

What do you think? How can something come from nothing?

There is only one answer - it has always existed - eternity. Do you understand?

 

[WornOutLife]

There is only one answer - it has always existed - eternity. Do you understand?

Yes! That's actually one of the theories I mentioned there lol.

 

[avoid_slow_death]

My current theory, while more sensible than the whole neuron scenario, is still a bit on the wild side. Bear with me. Am no physicist. Just the ramblings of a half baked maniac here.

Anyways, recently, theories about the multiverse have begun to gain some serious study in the field. A lot of interesting theories and speculations out there, so, after some reading and pondering, I came up with my own.

Ok, so if we exist in a multiverse, we must have neighboring universes adjacent to our own. Let's just say, for lack of a better term, that a neighboring universe is made of antimatter. Since this is the antithesis of "normal" matter it would the opposite properties and regular matter and be repelled by it. The pushing forces from neighboring universes slows the accelerated growth of our universe down enough to create what we know as a gravitational effect. Hence, what keeps everything from flying apart all at once.

Now, say some section of our universe is thin or weak and the two particles interact suddenly sonehow. Well, since matter and antimatter are structurally opposite, perhaps the ensuing reaction creates such a tremendous explosion that it results in the birth of another universe?

Pretty crackpot, I know and likely easily disproven with some simple formulas the likes of which my weak mind could never grasp, but still, fun to speculate, no?

 

[MrBlue]

I'm not spiritual or a theoretical physicist, so I have absoluely no clue but maybe the concept of a linear timeline between the universe starting and now isn't solely correct. Like space/time bends, so maybe the processes and objects occuring within that space/time are constantly distorting and overlapping themselves, therefore the point in "time" before there was anything is both always happening and not at the same time. It's just a potential state the universe may be in when observed, and we simply don't exist in that state.

 

[avoid_slow_death]

I'm not spiritual or a theoretical physicist, so I have absoluely no clue but maybe the concept of a linear timeline between the universe starting and now isn't solely correct. Like space/time bends, so maybe the processes and objects occuring within that space/time are constantly distorting and overlapping themselves, therefore the point in "time" before there was anything is both always happening and not at the same time. It's just a potential state the universe may be in when observed, and we simply don't exist in that state.

I like this idea as well. It lines up well with what we know about quantum nonlocality, (I like Einstein's Spooky Action At A Distance term better,) to explain what came "before" the Big Bang.

 

[orlandom]

I really think we are all making a tremendous effort to find out. But we are so dumb. That we can't. It's too early for us guys

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

Here are my thoughts; an entropy driven universe prefers chaos rather than order and stability. We can observe this in a closed system using the laws of thermodynamics. Therefore, the universe is constantly changing and creating new conditions, spawning a corporeal presence even when there appears to be nothing, because the natural state of things favors discord and disorder.

During the oxygen revolution, prokaryotes and cyanobacteria came about from existing species, as these flora and fauna now had new materials to tinker with in the context of their evolutionary projection. When you examine many of the organelles in eukaryotic cells, many of these structures share striking resemblance to those of ancient prokaryote species, the most basal and simplistic forms of life that we know of.

For example, the mitochondria actually has several genes that are not found in the typical eukaroyte genome, akin to the amino acids we would typically find in a bacterial genome instead. So everything that exists today is just a modified or advanced version of something that has existed before our conception. When we die, our organic material will return to the earth, and facilitate the birth of new organisms and environmental conditions.

So I believe that the ever changing chemical composition of the universe is the driving force that allowed the genesis of the "something" that we can observe. As stability is unfavorable to the universe, it will continue to expand upon its previous configurations, resulting in volatile states of climate, evolution, and existence.

Also people tend to think of evolution as creating the most perfect/fit being when that isn't true. The selfish gene only seems to care about whether or not it can survive long enough to replicate itself in offspring. We can see that many adaptations in humans are ill suited for modern life-technology evolved before we did, and we are paying the price for that.

 

[orlandom]

Here are my thoughts; an entropy driven universe prefers chaos rather than order and stability. We can observe this in a closed system using the laws of thermodynamics. Therefore, the universe is constantly changing and creating new conditions, spawning a corporeal presence even when there appears to be nothing, because the natural state of things favors discord and disorder.

During the oxygen revolution, prokaryotes and cyanobacteria came about from existing species, as these flora and fauna now had new materials to tinker with in the context of their evolutionary projection. When you examine many of the organelles in eukaryotic cells, many of these structures share striking resemblance to those of ancient prokaryote species, the most basal and simplistic forms of life that we know of.

For example, the mitochondria actually has several genes that are not found in the typical eukaroyte genome, akin to the amino acids we would typically find in a bacterial genome instead. So everything that exists today is just a modified or advanced version of something that has existed before our conception. When we die, our organic material will return to the earth, and facilitate the birth of new organisms and environmental conditions.

So I believe that the ever changing chemical composition of the universe is the driving force that allowed the genesis of the "something" that we can observe. As stability is unfavorable to the universe, it will continue to expand upon its previous configurations, resulting in volatile states of climate, evolution, and existence.

Your words sound good. Where did the universe come from?

The universe is not expanding. It is endless.

My existential crisis is still here so, let's start with another thread today.
Yesterday, I asked you HERE if we all could actually be the same person. Your answers were awe-inspiring and another question popped up:

How can something come from nothing?

Well, this is practically impossible to answer because how can we talk about the nothingness is there's just nothing in it?

According to Richard Dawkins, in the future, science might give us the answer. For instance, we already know thanks to Charles Darwin that billions of year of evolution made us exist here. Could it possible that in some decades we have an answer for what was before the big bang?

Religious people don't consider this question an issue because they just believe that "God" created everything. If you asked them who created that omnipotent being they'll just said that "no one created God because he/she/it is everything and is beyond time and space".

Here's a crazy fact:

Some scientist claim that it is possible for something to come from nothing because nothing actually has some stuff in it, it seems. There's some kind of eternal energy which was always there so, religion and some scientist actually have a similar theory! It could be God or simply something which doesn't follow the laws of physics in this universe and our minds can't understand yet.

However, as far as we know, there's gotta be something for something to exist. It's an infinite cycle and it's frustrating because we'll never be able to know the answer. Or maybe we will once we die? Is there actually a God? Are we in a simulation? Is it just...eternal nothingness and no answers?

Yesterday, a member told me we're like Gods for a butterfly with such a small brain which just can't grasp the concept of life, universe, etc. Maybe we're insects to as regards the universe and meaning of life? Is there just...NO WAY OF UNDERSTANDING ANYTHING? No matter how much more we evolve?


Too many questions but no real answers.

What do you think? How can something come from nothing?

You asked too drunk a question. If you know what I mean.

 

[kerokeroka]

Your words sound good. Where did the universe come from?

The universe is not expanding. It is endless.

You asked too drunk a question. If you know what I mean.

The universe is expanding as has been measured by astronomers and predicted based off of analysis of the Cosmic Microwave Background radiation. The universe isn't endless but we dont know what it is expanding into yet.

 

[orlandom]

The universe is expanding as has been measured by astronomers and predicted based off of analysis of the Cosmic Microwave Background radiation. The universe isn't endless but we dont know what it is expanding into yet.

She is endless

 

[kerokeroka]

She is endless

You just gendered the universe lol

 

[Wayfaerer]

There was never "nothing" and I find the implications of that to be extremely disturbing.

 

[BigNarkoleptic]

My existential crisis is still here so, let's start with another thread today.
Yesterday, I asked you HERE if we all could actually be the same person. Your answers were awe-inspiring and another question popped up:

How can something come from nothing?

Well, this is practically impossible to answer because how can we talk about the nothingness is there's just nothing in it?

According to Richard Dawkins, in the future, science might give us the answer. For instance, we already know thanks to Charles Darwin that billions of year of evolution made us exist here. Could it possible that in some decades we have an answer for what was before the big bang?

Religious people don't consider this question an issue because they just believe that "God" created everything. If you asked them who created that omnipotent being they'll just said that "no one created God because he/she/it is everything and is beyond time and space".

Here's a crazy fact:

Some scientist claim that it is possible for something to come from nothing because nothing actually has some stuff in it, it seems. There's some kind of eternal energy which was always there so, religion and some scientist actually have a similar theory! It could be God or simply something which doesn't follow the laws of physics in this universe and our minds can't understand yet.

However, as far as we know, there's gotta be something for something to exist. It's an infinite cycle and it's frustrating because we'll never be able to know the answer. Or maybe we will once we die? Is there actually a God? Are we in a simulation? Is it just...eternal nothingness and no answers?

Yesterday, a member told me we're like Gods for a butterfly with such a small brain which just can't grasp the concept of life, universe, etc. Maybe we're insects to as regards the universe and meaning of life? Is there just...NO WAY OF UNDERSTANDING ANYTHING? No matter how much more we evolve?


Too many questions but no real answers.

What do you think? How can something come from nothing?

perhaps, you are questioning the fabric of the bias of space time

 

[Life sucks]

It's better to look at smaller things first. What makes a sound wave start? What makes images appear in our heads? What makes a computer program starts? and more. It was "nothing" at the start but not as in absolute nothingness. There is something that creates the sound and a medium to transfer it, and the initial factor isn't nothing but an arbitrarily small factor.

It's hard to imagine an arbitrarily small factor in an arbitrarily large universe and its why life is actually a trap specially when people try to understand it.

Unfortunately trying to understand completely is actually futile but fortunately we can know why. It's not only humans but even the universe can't understand/prove itself because an arbitrarily large/infinite amount of space/time variables are impossible to deal with.

Is it nothing? It's not like absolute nothingness. Its more like arbitrarily small or a different state.

This might be unrelated but could give a visualization:

Geometric series - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Zeno's paradoxes - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[9BBN]

I replied to your previous thread explaining why simulation theory likely isn't true, and how we already see examples in quantum physics of "something coming from nothing". Anyway, here's my personal theory on what happened before the big bang. First, it's helpful to understand 4 quick observations any theory must be consistent with:

First, we know that energy and mass can interconvert, that's what Einstein's E=mc^2 demonstrates. Before the big bang, there was no mass, just a ton of energy. Law of entropy states that energy will trend toward a more chaotic state, causing the big bang explosion and mass spreading out.

Second, there is actual evidence that there likely were MULTIPLE big bangs. The physics is complicated, but basically Einstein's Cosmological Constant seems smaller than it should be given the current BB theory. To be consistent, there must be finite energy, and more than we know: perhaps many, repeating big bangs. Think of fireworks in the universe.

Third, BBT implies all matter comes from a single, 1-D point. We experience the world in 3-D. Huh? Why? Why did it expand in 3-D and not anything else? String theory tells us there's most likely 11 dimensions. Huh?! How can we access those other dimensions? Why are we trapped in this 3-D universe? To be clear, extra dimensions does not necessarily mean more infinite space. Likely, it is circular space. Think of a toilet paper roll: an ant can walk forward from one circlular end to the other, or turn left to walk along the circle to reach back where it started. This is an example of 2-D space where 1 dimension is circular. Since we don't see 11-D on a regular basis, physicists guess the other dimensions are circular like this. Again, simplifying a lot here.

Fourth, time and space appear to be related. We're still not sure what the relationship is.

So, we've established that mass and energy are related, and time and space are related. Here's the theory: in the same way mass converts into energy, perhaps time converts into space. Maybe, there is finite "time" and "space" in the same way that there is finite "energy" and "mass". So at some point, when space expands enough, time stops. Then, space retracts, and time goes the other way. When space contracts completely into a single point, it expands/"bangs" and time moves forwards again. So basically, we're in a time loop, I personally think. Think of the entropy law reversing itself over and over. There's a name for this theory, cyclic big bang theory. There are pretty visuals about it, too, if you search for it. Among those who believe this theory, it's disputed whether the same exact universe is unfolded after each big bang/time loop.

A good reason to suspect cyclic nature here is because we know there's likely circular spatial dimensions out there (observation #3).

Philosophically, the big two questions are "when did space begin" and "where did time come from". Notice how time ("when") and space ("where") sneak into these questions about each other? We could be asking a loaded question. My 2 cents.