Venting How can people see a reason to live

[_Minsk]

I feel like you have to be some kind of crazy to want to live in this world. Trapped inside a fragile body, being slave to our feelings, working till you collapse just to have some time off. being plagued by pain and suffering.
being judged personally for things we have not control over. at times i have that thought, maybe we are just a playground for viruses like covid, or any other bacteria or parasites with no known cure.

yesterday i had a dream, i was waking up at a hospital because i was hit by a car. it felt real, i feel sorry for those who have to endure that in real life.
surviving such event, being left with deformed bodies and lost body parts. its horrible. i wonder how some people can still say life is gift by a god.
its truly sick. i cant imagine how much fear those with cancer have to endure, slowly being absorbed by your own body cells, which simply don't want to die.
especially brain tumours, how such things can even exist, losing grip of reality because some parts are being slowly dissembled while people are still alive, in pain and fear. and again, people still claim there is a loving god, your life is a fucking gift.

how i wish diseases would't exist, maybe then i would be able to live a somewhat happy life.. this place we live in is a torture chamber. and still sex is something the most rewarding activity beside consuming food, keeping this chain of suffering going.
i hope something would hit this planet and erase all life. a place like this shouldn't exist. even if 99.99% of people living in this world would be happy and 00.01% would suffer, such place shouldn't exist. even leaving with dignity is nearly impossible for most of us, we might believe we can simply go but all those thoughts of guilt like what if i hurt others or what if it will be a mistake and there might actually be a place like hell, i mean this place already is hell, what if the torture continues and there is an actually worse place. im sorry for those who have been raised, made believing in a god and this heaven/hell stuff, or kids who are being raped, if there is a god, why would he make some men actually be attracted to them and then threaten them with hell?..

sorry for this rant, i just hate this life so much, i wish i could take some time off it and be somewhere else..

 

[AcornUnderground]

There was a time when I had physical health, not that long ago. I've had depression in the past, and I know the agony of a severe depressive episode and uncontrolled anxiety. But - I got through that - it was just an episode. Other than that, because I had my physical and mental health, and because I was really productive and successful - the world was a beautiful and magical place! For some, it really can stay like that as they somehow skate along on yes hard work but success with health and somehow dodging awful things happening to them or their loved ones. It happens all the time.

Now, I understand your mindset but have also seen the other side.

 

[Arrow]

i wonder how some people can still say life is gift by a god.
its truly sick. i cant imagine how much fear those with cancer have to endure, slowly being absorbed by your own body cells, which simply don't want to die.
especially brain tumours, how such things can even exist, losing grip of reality because some parts are being slowly dissembled while people are still alive, in pain and fear. and again, people still claim there is a loving god, your life is a fucking gift.

true, life is completely ridiculous. i mean this world is at the very least, 99% pure suffering. pain is everywhere, but then we go on to evolve to fear death more than anything else. it's like wtf is the point of all this bullshit? i don't know.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I feel like you have to be some kind of crazy to want to live in this world. Trapped inside a fragile body, being slave to our feelings, working till you collapse just to have some time off. being plagued by pain and suffering.
being judged personally for things we have not control over.

Your whole post spoke to me, and they are things that people throughout history have struggled with. The sentence I put in bold reminded me of what is called in Buddhism the eight worldly winds, or vicissitudes of fortune.

I'm not a Buddhist but apply a lot of the philosophy. Folks find lots of reasons to keep going, for Buddhists, it is to keep striving for enlightenment and Nirvana so that they can be free from samsara, the cycle of suffering that has no discernable beginning or end. Gautama (the living Buddha we call Buddha) likened wanting to escape suffering like wanting to escape a burning building -- it is rational to want to. Suffering, physical changes, and the winds of change outside of our control are what Stoics called externals, and both Buddhists and Stoics sought to manage them with non-attachment/detachment and equanimity (Stoics called it eudamonia, a kind of happiness based on equanimity). Stoics said there were certain conditions that were rational reasons to suicide, which they compared to withdrawing from the party of life : when an old friend shows up and needs your service (defending one's country), when they party is taken over by tyrants who cause the party goers to do and say things against their wills and virtue, spoilage of party provisions (ill health so that the soul can no longer use the tool of the body), running out of party provisions (poverty), and drunkenness at the party (madness, mental health issues, which cause one to act against their virtue or will).

I thought I'd share an excerpt (see spoiler) from an early written Buddhist canon that is attributed to Gautama having spoken these words, though because they were passed on by oral tradition for centuries, no one can know for sure. If you wish to pursue it, you can find the full text in the book In the Buddha's Words.

Spoiler: Excerpt

"These eight worldly conditions, monks, keep the world turning around, and the world turns around these eight worldly conditions. What eight? Gain and loss, fame and disrepute, praise and blame, pleasure and pain.

"These eight worldly conditions, monks, are encountered by an uninstructed worldling, and they are also encountered by an instructed noble disciple. What now is the distinction, the disparity, the difference between an instructed noble disciple and an uninstructed worldling?"

[...]

"When an uninstructed worldling, monks, comes upon gain, he does not reflect on it thus: 'This gain that has come to me is impermanent, bound up with suffering, subject to change.' He does not know it as it really is. And when he comes upon loss, fame and disrepute, praise and blame, he does not reflect on them thus: 'All these are impermanent, bound up with suffering, subject to change.' He does not know them as they really are. With such a person, gain and loss, fame and disrepute, praise and blame, pleasure and pain keep his mind engrossed. When gain comes he is elated and when he meets with loss he is dejected. When fame comes he is elated and when he meets with disrepute he is dejected. When praise comes he is elated and when he meets with blame he is dejected. When he experiences pleasure he is elated and when he experiences pain he is dejected. Being thus involved in likes and dislikes, he will not be freed from birth, aging, and death, from sorrow, lamentation, pain, dejection, and despair; he will not be freed from suffering, I say.

"But, monks, when an instructed noble disciple comes upon gain, he reflects on it thus: 'This gain that has come to me is impermanent, bound up with suffering, subject to change.' And so he will reflect when loss and so forth come upon him. He understands all these things as they really are, and they do not engross his mind. Thus he will not be elated by gain and dejected by loss; elated by fame and dejected by disrepute; elated by praise and dejected by blame; elated by pleasure and dejected by pain. Having thus given up likes and dislikes, he will be freed from birth, aging, and death, from sorrow, lamentation, pain, dejection, and despair; he will be freed from suffering, I say.

"This, monks, is the distinction, the disparity, the difference between an instructed noble disciple and an uninstructed worldling."

(Aṅguttara Nikāya 8:6; IV 157–59)

Or as Bob Dylan more succinctly put it: "You should not feel so all alone. Eeeeeverybody must get stoned." And he laughed as he sang, akin to the spirit of what I said below my username, Ain't it all just ridiculous? That attitude helps me go on when I must, and keep some equanimity, distance, and perspective.

Don't know if this post brought any understanding, let alone comfort. But I feel you. You may suffer alone, but in these things that torment you, you are not alone. I feel and experience them, too.

 

[Darksektori]

It's like a poker game, sometimes you just can't win with the hand you're delt and just have to fold.
People fear death that's why they believe the stupid "sanctity of life" bs. Honestly it's easy for people to call wanting to CTB a Crisis. Their idea of help is, drugs and fake therapy sessions form so called professionals who act like they're concerned and try to convince you that there's a solution to your suffering, lies and hypocrisy. Then you have these worthless hotlines, I would compare it to calling tech support for your cellphone, they're reading off a list of troubleshooting questions and solutions and offer no real help. People will always have a biased view until they've traveled that static void of hopelessness themselves and perhaps understand what it's like. Religious people try to convince me that we'll go to hell if we CTB my response is "not possible we already are in hell" because it sure as hell ain't paradise, at best the world we live in is limbo/purgatory a barren wasteland of empty promises, broken dreams, and lies, no thanks, hell is actually sounding quite inviting in that circumstance

 

[Deleted member 14386]

It's like a poker game, sometimes you just can't win with the hand you're delt and just have to fold.

That's perfect, I agree that most people actually believe they are doing good by saying don't ctb. But if you have a bad hand you wait for the next game, not going till the end and losing more than if you folded.

I don't think there will be another game, but there has to be a percentage of people that would have died if we were still in tribal times. But it seems like were kept alive for other people, not us.

Also if you could somehow quantify happiness I don't think the rest of my life would be any better than it was, it's like I peaked years ago but others can't see it.

 

[Darksektori]

true, life is completely ridiculous. i mean this world is at the very least, 99% pure suffering. pain is everywhere, but then we go on to evolve to fear death more than anything else. it's like wtf is the point of all this bullshit? i don't know.

Let's say God is real for the sake of conversation, the fact that he allows such suffering in the world, there so little beauty and peace left in here and replaced by corruption and greed. Who in their right mind wants to exist in a world were 2% of population own 95% of the planets wealth, a world were thousands of children die from starvation preventable diseases. They say any person can change the world, yeah well any person can leave it as well.

That's perfect, I agree that most people actually believe they are doing good by saying don't ctb. But if you have a bad hand you wait for the next game, not going till the end and losing more than if you folded.

I don't think there will be another game, but there has to be a percentage of people that would have died if we were still in tribal times. But it seems like were kept alive for other people, not us.

Also if you could somehow quantify happiness I don't think the rest of my life would be any better than it was, it's like I peaked years ago but others can't see it.

Like I said we are statistics now and we'll still be statistics afterwords, this sad and pathetic world will continue regardless of what we do.

 

[Saddaisy]

Because some people have everything handed to them and have things to live feel. These people are usually the most selfish and self absorbed

 

[Darksektori]

Because some people have everything handed to them and have things to live feel. These people are usually the most selfish and self absorbed

Couldn't of said it better myself

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Because some people have everything handed to them and have things to live feel. These people are usually the most selfish and self absorbed

Exactly. Not to derail the thread, but his is why I have so much respect for the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius. He was adopted into wealth and privilege, and was rigorously taught the Stoic ethics of responsibility to others and self-control. He literally ruled the world and no one could control him. He could have quite literally anything he wanted, yet he strove to maintain awareness and control of himself and his desires, and even chose to share power and leadership with his brother when he had no obligation to do so. The empire flourished under his leadership, because he took responsibility to lead himself and to seek counsel that was wise and demonstrated worthiness of respect and emulation.

Power and privilege corrupt; it takes great strength of character and consistent application of it to use those things wisely and for the benefit of all, rather than selfishly, as is the default in a human animal's nature, though not insurmountable, only challenging. To act in that way is not instantly gratifying, which ultimately leads to ever seeking more gratification, but instead is truly satisfying.

 

[Fedrea]

If you have physical and mental health the world can indeed be a beautiful and exciting place. I remember

 

[Outsider]

I don't think you need a reason. If you are healthy, have decent life, family, friends, money, you don't suffer much, you just keep going. That is imperative imprinted in all of us through evolution "survive, reproduce, live". Before I had depression I didn't need reason to live. I look at my sister who has everything and she doesnt ever ponder about reason or meaning of life. She just lives, mindlessly you can say, like an animal. But arent we all animals as well?

When the balance tips off and you get too much suffering you realize how the world really is.

 

[Fedrea]

I don't think you need a reason. If you are healthy, have decent life, family, friends, money, you don't suffer much, you just keep going. That is imperative imprinted in all of us through evolution "survive, reproduce, live". Before I had depression I didn't need reason to live. I look at my sister who has everything and she doesnt ever ponder about reason or meaning of life. She just lives, mindlessly you can say, like an animal. But arent we all animals as well?

When the balance tips off and you get too much suffering you realize how the world really is.

This is very true. I always thought about stuff deeply but what adversity and depression does is make you overthink and overanalyse everything.
Which actually makes it harder to ctb

 

[Cutepoison]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Fuck this world.

 

[SpottedPanda]

It's easy to think like this, I'm entirely apathetic about life and everything in the world.

It seems to me that there are a fair few people who love life, while the majority find their highs and lows, and take for certain that there'll be some pain and suffering. Then there are those who are depressed or otherwise disenchanted with life.

I feel the majority just accept that life goes on, it's just I personally don't want it to.

 

[MeriDeath]

I feel like you have to be some kind of crazy to want to live in this world. Trapped inside a fragile body, being slave to our feelings, working till you collapse just to have some time off. being plagued by pain and suffering.
being judged personally for things we have not control over. at times i have that thought, maybe we are just a playground for viruses like covid, or any other bacteria or parasites with no known cure.

yesterday i had a dream, i was waking up at a hospital because i was hit by a car. it felt real, i feel sorry for those who have to endure that in real life.
surviving such event, being left with deformed bodies and lost body parts. its horrible. i wonder how some people can still say life is gift by a god.
its truly sick. i cant imagine how much fear those with cancer have to endure, slowly being absorbed by your own body cells, which simply don't want to die.
especially brain tumours, how such things can even exist, losing grip of reality because some parts are being slowly dissembled while people are still alive, in pain and fear. and again, people still claim there is a loving god, your life is a fucking gift.

how i wish diseases would't exist, maybe then i would be able to live a somewhat happy life.. this place we live in is a torture chamber. and still sex is something the most rewarding activity beside consuming food, keeping this chain of suffering going.
i hope something would hit this planet and erase all life. a place like this shouldn't exist. even if 99.99% of people living in this world would be happy and 00.01% would suffer, such place shouldn't exist. even leaving with dignity is nearly impossible for most of us, we might believe we can simply go but all those thoughts of guilt like what if i hurt others or what if it will be a mistake and there might actually be a place like hell, i mean this place already is hell, what if the torture continues and there is an actually worse place. im sorry for those who have been raised, made believing in a god and this heaven/hell stuff, or kids who are being raped, if there is a god, why would he make some men actually be attracted to them and then threaten them with hell?..

sorry for this rant, i just hate this life so much, i wish i could take some time off it and be somewhere else..

Look I am not religious or anything but I guess some people are born, and raised in a way that makes them think "oh wow life is beautiful, look at the flowers and the daily things I have to achieve" look at God and it's angels protecting me" "this world is just a corridor to the world to come"

People go by the book, school college university finding a loved one, etc. They don't look too much Into the bad things, in other ways they are slaves to working non stop, raising kids etc, but they like it. "Life is short, why would you wanna die"
these people are goal driven and they had better lives than us that's for sure.

but for us people the world will always look like a hell of a place no matter what. But as we know it we can also avoid life by well, dying. Sooner or later they will die too but the difference is we are just more aware about things.

Remember, people have all kinds of problems in their lives but at least, you know the severity of your problems and you can exit. And let the others be with whatever this world has to offer them.

 

[Darksektori]

It's easy to think like this, I'm entirely apathetic about life and everything in the world.

It seems to me that there are a fair few people who love life, while the majority find their highs and lows, and take for certain that there'll be some pain and suffering. Then there are those who are depressed or otherwise disenchanted with life.

I feel the majority just accept that life goes on, it's just I personally don't want it to.

"I used to love life, then the drugs wore off"

 

[Fedrea]

If you're happy with yourself, have love in your life, aren't suffering too much physically, life is rich and beautiful

 

[Darksektori]

"People want to escape. Some people are not ready—are not ableto find a way to deal with what's in front of them. Sometimes there's no one to help them. Sometimes they don't know how to ask for help. Sometimes it feels like there's no choice but to end it. No other way out. And sometimes it's impossible to see past that."

Sarah Fine

"I used to love life, then the drugs wore off"

"Nobody has ever killed themselves over a broken arm. But every day, thousands of people kill themselves because of a broken heart. Why? Because emotional pain hurts much worse than physical pain."

-Oliver Markus Malloy

 

[pete_x]

Without agency/the opportunity to be a human being all the reasons i find ultimately die.