P@in
Member
- Sep 9, 2023
- 33
Life is confusing. People believe and know different things.
There's a lot of misinformation and "curse of knowledge" that makes people think they know what they don't.
Also the brain can hallucinate feelings and visions, especially if it's sick or some substances are used!
The question of the all knowing and all loving personal God's existence & plan (if he exists, which is unlikely imo) is a big issue for some of us,
it makes us think about our afterlife, makes us afraid of death... makes the SI even stronger.
Here's a skeptic's overview of the Jewish-Christian-(Muslim?) God's Plan in a nutshell.
I think it can makes you see it from another perspective, and it seems like not a mastermind's plan (even tho God is considered wise and all knowing)
Let's Discuss!
There's a lot of misinformation and "curse of knowledge" that makes people think they know what they don't.
Also the brain can hallucinate feelings and visions, especially if it's sick or some substances are used!
The question of the all knowing and all loving personal God's existence & plan (if he exists, which is unlikely imo) is a big issue for some of us,
it makes us think about our afterlife, makes us afraid of death... makes the SI even stronger.
Here's a skeptic's overview of the Jewish-Christian-(Muslim?) God's Plan in a nutshell.
I think it can makes you see it from another perspective, and it seems like not a mastermind's plan (even tho God is considered wise and all knowing)
God's perfect plan for his creation – the big checklist in the sky:
* Decide to arrange for something other than yourself to exist (check)
* Create a being by the name of Lucifer with full knowledge that this being will ultimately betray you and cause an unlimited amount of suffering unnecessarily (check)
* Allow an unfathomably horrific dimension of existence known as hell to emerge created perhaps by yourself or Lucifer and allow that dimension to continue existing. Do not override or prevent such a thing, it will come into play later (check)
* Create objective, unchanging moral prescriptions and base them on whatever your nature happens to be and then label any action or thought contrary to these standards, sin (check)
* Be sure to include in these moral prescriptions edicts for social and psychological health such as encouragement to beat one's children with a rod, permission to buy and sell slaves and will them as property to your children for life, require that women be prohibited to teach or have authority over men and of course the instruction to kill anyone who is interested in worshipping other gods (check)
* Design a physical universe, planet, vegetation and animals all with the appearance of age. Be sure to include in your creation biological flaws, redundancies and over-complications that appear as if they were the product of blind cumulative process. Perhaps a urinary tract that runs through the prostate gland, or an unnecessary appendix prone to inflammation and rupturing, or maybe a respiratory and digestive system forced to share the same plumbing. These are just a few working ideas (check)
* Create a garden with a tree bearing fruit that when eaten provides knowledge of your objective moral standards. Then create two sentient, cognitive beings without knowledge or the awareness of these objective standards and instruct them not to eat from the tree that would enlighten them. In other words arrange it so only after they eat from the tree will they be capable of understanding that doing so was a violation of the objective moral standards (check)
* Warn these cognitive beings that they will undoubtedly die if they eat from this tree, but don't follow through when they do. Endow a reptile with vocal cords, lips or some other means of speaking to your cognitive beings enabling it to make a convincing case to them for eating from the tree. Do not prevent this or intervene. (check)
* By this point make sure your cognitive beings have been equipped for reproducing themselves and multiplying but as one of them has sinned arrange that every single one of their descendants until the end of time will be born with an inherent sinful nature defaulting in a future of everlasting torment. Do not by any means allow that any of them are born with clean slate and the capacity for living a sinless life if they desire, as you did with your first two prototypes (check)
* Endow these cognitive beings with a "soul" which keeps their thoughts and feelings and other cognitive faculties in existence forever one way or another and then allow the sinfulness of these beings to be incompatible with your presence and make hell the only other place they can go when they exit the physical world. Do not make any attempt to spare these souls the eternal torment of hell such as allowing souls to stop existing all together or creating an additional realm for them to reside besides with you or in hell (check)
* Over time allow these beings to populate the earth you have created knowing with infallible certainty of course that after so many generations that they will disappoint you enough that you will find it necessary to kill all of them in a global flood and start all over from scratch (check)
* Now, when this happens, again right on schedule, make an exception for one small family of cognitive beings whom you deem righteous. Of course it goes with saying that your powers of omniscience allow you to know, again, with infallible certainty that this family too will ultimately disappoint you in the same way as those you drowned, rendering the entire endeavour futile. But for now its best you pretend not to know that (check)
* Instruct this small disappointment of a family to populate the entire world all over again by way of incest (check)
* Declare that until further notice the only way for these cognitive beings to rectify their sinful nature is to perform ritual acts of animal sacrifices and other acts of senseless violence additionally when certain sins are committed by any one of these cognitive beings demand that the surrounding community kill that being themselves (check)
* In the meantime perform many epic miracles for all to see and intervene often with your physical creation, stop the sun in the sky, part the red sea, turn rivers into blood, women into pillars of salt, give men super human strength, speak to the thousands with a booming voice from heaven, etc. But before these beings become advanced enough in the areas of science and communication that they could actually document, share, play back and verify these epic miracles, make sure you stop performing them altogether (check)
* Decide at some point that the most pressing of your objective moral prescriptions are not as obvious to these cognitive beings as you once thought. Take this opportunity to chisel your top 10 moral concerns into two tablets of stone and commission one of these cognitive beings to deliver these tablets to the masses. Note to self: Roughly half of these moral concerns should centre around pleasing you, praising you and remaining loyal to you (check)
* After several thousand years impregnate one of these cognitive beings so she gives birth to your son in physical form, who also…happens to be you…at the same time (check)
* Allow this cognitive being who is you son (but also you) to grow up and make several revisions to you/your son's original standards of morality. Then arrange for other cognitive beings to torture and kill you/your son. Authorise this sacrifice of yourself to yourself as a means of granting all other cognitive beings immunity from the consequences of their sinful nature, which…you allowed them to be born with in the first place (check)
* Do not however, make this sacrifice free, establish that none of these cognitive beings shall be eligible for the benefits of this sacrifice unless they actively believed that it happened. In other words despite the quality of their intention, any cognitive being who finds themselves unconvinced that these events actually took place is unwittingly designating themselves for the endless suffering of hell (check)
* That established, be sure to refrain from making it clear and knowable to the rest of the world that these events actually took place. Ensure that no cognitive being born after the first century will have the luxury of witnessing your son (who is also you) say or do anything to indicate he was a living god. Again make sure all of this occurs before the advancements in science and technology are available to verify it all for those who aren't present (check)
* Arrange that the only surviving record of these events will be authored anonymously by non-eyewitnesses translated into a language different to the one you/your son will speak no earlier than 30 years after you/your son performs these miracles and makes these claims. However, do make sure that these records contain the precept that believing in something without evidence is morally superior to investigation and verification (check)
* Be sure that after only a few decades the only accounts these events in existence are copies of copies of copies which will be verifiably altered and added to in historically and theologically significant ways, generation to generation, sect to sect. Do not preserve the original copies of these accounts, do not protect them from revision, do not set in place any mechanism to prevent them being interpreted in hundreds upon hundreds of ways, most of which being heretical and therefore punishable (check)
* Do not bother to employ your omniscience in such a way to discern which of these cognitive beings are truly rebelling and which simply do not know how to distinguish you from other versions of god which do not in fact exist but who are attributed the same claims of exclusivity (check)
* Do not make it clear to these beings that you're even here. Allow for your very existence to be an easily debatable, easily questionable, easily doubtable proposition. Allow for billions and billions of souls to be unthinkably tortured for all of eternity regardless of their character, integrity, bravery, responsibility or conduct because they had not correctly assumed that the right set of propositions are true by the time their lives were over (check)
* And finally…when all is said and done, demand that you be praised for this plan (check!)
* Decide to arrange for something other than yourself to exist (check)
* Create a being by the name of Lucifer with full knowledge that this being will ultimately betray you and cause an unlimited amount of suffering unnecessarily (check)
* Allow an unfathomably horrific dimension of existence known as hell to emerge created perhaps by yourself or Lucifer and allow that dimension to continue existing. Do not override or prevent such a thing, it will come into play later (check)
* Create objective, unchanging moral prescriptions and base them on whatever your nature happens to be and then label any action or thought contrary to these standards, sin (check)
* Be sure to include in these moral prescriptions edicts for social and psychological health such as encouragement to beat one's children with a rod, permission to buy and sell slaves and will them as property to your children for life, require that women be prohibited to teach or have authority over men and of course the instruction to kill anyone who is interested in worshipping other gods (check)
* Design a physical universe, planet, vegetation and animals all with the appearance of age. Be sure to include in your creation biological flaws, redundancies and over-complications that appear as if they were the product of blind cumulative process. Perhaps a urinary tract that runs through the prostate gland, or an unnecessary appendix prone to inflammation and rupturing, or maybe a respiratory and digestive system forced to share the same plumbing. These are just a few working ideas (check)
* Create a garden with a tree bearing fruit that when eaten provides knowledge of your objective moral standards. Then create two sentient, cognitive beings without knowledge or the awareness of these objective standards and instruct them not to eat from the tree that would enlighten them. In other words arrange it so only after they eat from the tree will they be capable of understanding that doing so was a violation of the objective moral standards (check)
* Warn these cognitive beings that they will undoubtedly die if they eat from this tree, but don't follow through when they do. Endow a reptile with vocal cords, lips or some other means of speaking to your cognitive beings enabling it to make a convincing case to them for eating from the tree. Do not prevent this or intervene. (check)
* By this point make sure your cognitive beings have been equipped for reproducing themselves and multiplying but as one of them has sinned arrange that every single one of their descendants until the end of time will be born with an inherent sinful nature defaulting in a future of everlasting torment. Do not by any means allow that any of them are born with clean slate and the capacity for living a sinless life if they desire, as you did with your first two prototypes (check)
* Endow these cognitive beings with a "soul" which keeps their thoughts and feelings and other cognitive faculties in existence forever one way or another and then allow the sinfulness of these beings to be incompatible with your presence and make hell the only other place they can go when they exit the physical world. Do not make any attempt to spare these souls the eternal torment of hell such as allowing souls to stop existing all together or creating an additional realm for them to reside besides with you or in hell (check)
* Over time allow these beings to populate the earth you have created knowing with infallible certainty of course that after so many generations that they will disappoint you enough that you will find it necessary to kill all of them in a global flood and start all over from scratch (check)
* Now, when this happens, again right on schedule, make an exception for one small family of cognitive beings whom you deem righteous. Of course it goes with saying that your powers of omniscience allow you to know, again, with infallible certainty that this family too will ultimately disappoint you in the same way as those you drowned, rendering the entire endeavour futile. But for now its best you pretend not to know that (check)
* Instruct this small disappointment of a family to populate the entire world all over again by way of incest (check)
* Declare that until further notice the only way for these cognitive beings to rectify their sinful nature is to perform ritual acts of animal sacrifices and other acts of senseless violence additionally when certain sins are committed by any one of these cognitive beings demand that the surrounding community kill that being themselves (check)
* In the meantime perform many epic miracles for all to see and intervene often with your physical creation, stop the sun in the sky, part the red sea, turn rivers into blood, women into pillars of salt, give men super human strength, speak to the thousands with a booming voice from heaven, etc. But before these beings become advanced enough in the areas of science and communication that they could actually document, share, play back and verify these epic miracles, make sure you stop performing them altogether (check)
* Decide at some point that the most pressing of your objective moral prescriptions are not as obvious to these cognitive beings as you once thought. Take this opportunity to chisel your top 10 moral concerns into two tablets of stone and commission one of these cognitive beings to deliver these tablets to the masses. Note to self: Roughly half of these moral concerns should centre around pleasing you, praising you and remaining loyal to you (check)
* After several thousand years impregnate one of these cognitive beings so she gives birth to your son in physical form, who also…happens to be you…at the same time (check)
* Allow this cognitive being who is you son (but also you) to grow up and make several revisions to you/your son's original standards of morality. Then arrange for other cognitive beings to torture and kill you/your son. Authorise this sacrifice of yourself to yourself as a means of granting all other cognitive beings immunity from the consequences of their sinful nature, which…you allowed them to be born with in the first place (check)
* Do not however, make this sacrifice free, establish that none of these cognitive beings shall be eligible for the benefits of this sacrifice unless they actively believed that it happened. In other words despite the quality of their intention, any cognitive being who finds themselves unconvinced that these events actually took place is unwittingly designating themselves for the endless suffering of hell (check)
* That established, be sure to refrain from making it clear and knowable to the rest of the world that these events actually took place. Ensure that no cognitive being born after the first century will have the luxury of witnessing your son (who is also you) say or do anything to indicate he was a living god. Again make sure all of this occurs before the advancements in science and technology are available to verify it all for those who aren't present (check)
* Arrange that the only surviving record of these events will be authored anonymously by non-eyewitnesses translated into a language different to the one you/your son will speak no earlier than 30 years after you/your son performs these miracles and makes these claims. However, do make sure that these records contain the precept that believing in something without evidence is morally superior to investigation and verification (check)
* Be sure that after only a few decades the only accounts these events in existence are copies of copies of copies which will be verifiably altered and added to in historically and theologically significant ways, generation to generation, sect to sect. Do not preserve the original copies of these accounts, do not protect them from revision, do not set in place any mechanism to prevent them being interpreted in hundreds upon hundreds of ways, most of which being heretical and therefore punishable (check)
* Do not bother to employ your omniscience in such a way to discern which of these cognitive beings are truly rebelling and which simply do not know how to distinguish you from other versions of god which do not in fact exist but who are attributed the same claims of exclusivity (check)
* Do not make it clear to these beings that you're even here. Allow for your very existence to be an easily debatable, easily questionable, easily doubtable proposition. Allow for billions and billions of souls to be unthinkably tortured for all of eternity regardless of their character, integrity, bravery, responsibility or conduct because they had not correctly assumed that the right set of propositions are true by the time their lives were over (check)
* And finally…when all is said and done, demand that you be praised for this plan (check!)
Let's Discuss!
