He said you don't have empathy

[bloodfallsfirst]

I need a companion who understands. I want someone who knows what it's like to want to die, and gives me sympathy and kindness.

Yet instead, I get scoldings and lectures and guilt trips and rules, all from the same guy.

And yet, I can't keep a secret from him and can't abandon him. But he says you all don't truly care about me.

Sure, we're all Internet strangers to each other, but you do understand, right?

 

[sealbabies]

This site is proof that others feel this way for a variety of reasons, and there is actual nuance in life and death.
Sorry to hear you have a partner like that. It surely would make me feel unsure of myself.
But myself and many others can most likely tell you, wanting to ctb is a personal thing. In fact very human thing (outside of SI and religious reasoning).

 

[Fre_diE]

Sure do... where else can we go to talk about our deepest darkest secrets without judgment. We are a community of suicidal kindhearted strangers, true, but i think just knowing I'm not the only one helps. I think it helps you too. What's the first rule of suicide club? Keep it a secret lol . I wish you the best and dm of you'd like to talk

 

[Red Scare]

Who is this guy, what is your relationship to them?

 

[Chiisai]

He may be right, he may be wrong. Especially in this forum that values anonymity, anything can go so best be careful. However, that does not mean there's no genuine people here. Feel free to express yourself and ask for help if need be. There will be people who will genuinely help you. But first and foremost, I do not know about you guys and only have this information that you provided here so the questions are, is that guy your lover? Is he from an older generation? If so, most guys are like that. Not to demean men but that's how men was brought up by society; taught to be tough and not succumb to "emotional weakness". It may be frustrating that you dont feel the support you want but if he is giving you sound advice and sticking up for you, its still worth listening to no?

 

[bloodfallsfirst]

He's a 31-year-old friend who has known me pretty closely and seen me through a few hospitalizations - being fully or partially responsible for four of 11. He is described by others as a rock and has a very hard time displaying sympathy to me. He lost his 30-year-old wife to cancer last year.

 

[Rogue Proxy]

He may be right, he may be wrong. Especially in this forum that values anonymity, anything can go so best be careful. However, that does not mean there's no genuine people here. Feel free to express yourself and ask for help if need be. There will be people who will genuinely help you. But first and foremost, I do not know about you guys and only have this information that you provided here so the questions are, is that guy your lover? Is he from an older generation? If so, most guys are like that. Not to demean men but that's how men was brought up by society; taught to be tough and not succumb to "emotional weakness". It may be frustrating that you dont feel the support you want but if he is giving you sound advice and sticking up for you, its still worth listening to no?

I strongly disagree with that notion in bold. If anyone is abusing, neglecting, and/or mistreating you in any way, shape, or form, and repeatedly ignores, pushes, or breaks your boundaries after you've established them, it would be best to kick that rotting carcass to the curb. Concealing "emotional weakness" and mindlessly conforming to toxic masculinity doesn't excuse or justify emotionally abusing or manipulating you. Providing "sound advice and sticking up for you" doesn't redeem him from lecturing, scolding, guilt-tripping, controlling you with rules, or demanding secrets from you. Again, for the sake of your mental wellbeing, I strongly suggest completely cutting ties with him.

 

[Chiisai]

He's a 31-year-old friend who has known me pretty closely and seen me through a few hospitalizations - being fully or partially responsible for four of 11. He is described by others as a rock and has a very hard time displaying sympathy to me. He lost his 30-year-old wife to cancer last year.

He's responsible for four. What does that mean? He is the reason why you were hospitalized? I believe that if we are to share our opinions on this matter, it would be best also to know the whole story for it to be fair not only for you but also for us in order to avoid giving wrongly placed advice or falsely condemning anyone.

I strongly disagree with that notion in bold. If anyone is abusing, neglecting, and/or mistreating you in any way, shape, or form, and repeatedly ignores, pushes, or breaks your boundaries after you've established them, it would be best to kick that rotting carcass to the curb. Concealing "emotional weakness" and mindlessly conforming to toxic masculinity doesn't excuse or justify emotionally abusing or manipulating you. Providing "sound advice and sticking up for you" doesn't redeem him from lecturing, scolding, guilt-tripping, controlling you with rules, or demanding secrets from you. Again, for the sake of your mental wellbeing, I strongly suggest completely cutting ties with him.

Wrong. In no way did OP mention about neglect or abuse in their initial statement. If you think lecture or scolding is something negative outright, you must have been fed with a silver spoon or one that prefers everything sugar-coated. However, we do not know the whole story, therefore we can only assume BUT NOT CONDEMN. So curb your hatred until that guy is worthy of yours.

 

[Rogue Proxy]

Wrong. In no way did OP mention about neglect or abuse in their initial statement. If you think lecture or scolding is something negative outright, you must have been fed with a silver spoon or one that prefers everything sugar-coated. However, we do not know the whole story, therefore we can only assume BUT NOT CONDEMN. So curb your misandry until that guy is worthy of yours.

First, scolding and lecturing someone like a disobedient child is not a healthy, respectful, or compassionate way to communicate with an adult, and can actually be emotionally abusive and manipulative. Second, I have never been "fed with a silver spoon" nor "prefer everything sugar-coated". In fact, I have experienced many forms of abuse and negligence throughout my entire life. I also strongly prefer knowing the truth, regardless of how ugly it is. Third, my previous post has nothing to do with misandry. It applies to all abusive humans, regardless of gender.

 

[Chiisai]

You are free to express your opinion however it is evident that it is limited only to your perspective as shown that your first and second point are contradicting. You prefer the "truth no matter how ugly it is" but call lectures and scolding not emotionally abusive. It is from your perspective and not a general statement at all. As for the third, you have already labeled the person with toxic masculinity and shown contempt without us knowing the entirety of the story. It seems you are already picturing this person as someone you hate and outright condemn without giving a benefit of the doubt.

 

[Rogue Proxy]

You are free to express your opinion however it is evident that it is limited only to your perspective as shown that your first and second point are contradicting. You prefer the "truth no matter how ugly it is" but call lectures and scolding not emotionally abusive. It is from your perspective and not a general statement at all. As for the third, you have already labeled the person with toxic masculinity and shown contempt without us knowing the entirety of the story. It seems you are already picturing this person as someone you hate and outright condemn without giving a benefit of the doubt.

Criticizing toxic masculinity isn't misandry since it focuses on a specific harmful type of masculinity, not masculinity as a whole. I brought up toxic masculinity due to your previous post mentioning how "most men" from the "older generation" were brought to act tough and hide their emotions, which can have negative consequences towards everyone, including men themselves.

Again, it is possible to communicate with someone, including expressing criticism and truth, without talking down to them or treating them like a child. Condescension can be emotionally and psychologically harmful, especially towards those who are wrongfully perceived by others as "mentally deficient".

 

[Chiisai]

Criticizing toxic masculinity isn't misandry since it focuses on a specific harmful type of masculinity, not masculinity as a whole. I brought up toxic masculinity due to your previous post mentioning how "most men" from the "older generation" were brought to act tough and hide their emotions, which can have negative consequences towards everyone, including men themselves.

Again, it is possible to communicate with someone, along with expressing criticism and the truth, without talking down to them or treating them like a child. Condescension can be emotionally and psychologically harmful, especially towards those who are wrongfully perceived by others as "mentally deficient".

Isnt that a fact and I am merely stating it and as you said it has brought a negative impact on themselves too. However, to condemn them outright for that without understanding where they are coming from or without knowing the whole story is wrong. I think you are either putting unnecessary negative elements in the word lecture and scolding or that you are mirroring your personal experience with those words. If so, I suggest we stick to how it is defined as is. And again, I believe if we are to give sound advice, we must know the whole story. That also speaks of whether a person should be worth your contempt or not.

 

[indigomoon]

I need a companion who understands. I want someone who knows what it's like to want to die, and gives me sympathy and kindness.

Yet instead, I get scoldings and lectures and guilt trips and rules, all from the same guy.

And yet, I can't keep a secret from him and can't abandon him. But he says you all don't truly care about me.

Sure, we're all Internet strangers to each other, but you do understand, right?

I care and understand. I know you said that you can't abandon this guy but personally, I think you need to dump his ass. You don't deserve that kind of abuse.

 

[Rogue Proxy]

Isnt that a fact and I am merely stating it and as you said it has brought a negative impact on themselves too. However, to condemn them outright for that without understanding where they are coming from or without knowing the whole story is wrong. I think you are either putting unnecessary negative elements in the word lecture and scolding or that you are mirroring your personal experience with those words. If so, I suggest we stick to how it is defined as is. And again, I believe if we are to give sound advice, we must know the whole story. That also speaks of whether a person should be worth your contempt or not.

Just because someone was raised on toxic ideas, doesn't excuse or justify them mistreating the individuals they claim to care about. Them being nice or helpful part of the time doesn't nullify their harmful actions, especially if the latter actions are continuous. Again, if anyone is treating you terribly in any way, shape, or form, even after addressing the problematic issues and establishing boundaries, and especially if this is negatively affecting your mental health, the best course of action is to permanently end the relationship. Most abusive and toxic humans don't change for the better in the long run. In fact, they tend to make empty, insincere apologies and promises of positive change as a method of manipulating, controlling, and keeping their "loved ones" under their thumb.

Ignoring the issues of "lecturing" and "scolding", there are other red flags in the original post that indicates the relationship being unhealthy, if not toxic/abusive: 1) being guilt-tripped, 2) having rules imposed onto them, 3) not getting their emotional needs of understanding, sympathy, or kindness from the relationship met, 4) feeling like they can't have any secrets/privacy to themselves, and 5) feeling like they can't leave the relationship. The claims of the SS forum members "not truly caring" about poster and "not having empathy" looks suspiciously like they are trying to isolate the poster from getting the support they seek.

 

[Chiisai]

Just because someone was raised on toxic ideas, doesn't excuse or justify them mistreating the individuals they claim to care about. Them being nice or helpful part of the time doesn't nullify their harmful actions, especially if the latter actions are continuous. Again, if anyone is treating you terribly in any way, shape, or form, even after addressing the problematic issues and establishing boundaries, and especially if this is negatively affecting your mental health, the best course of action is to permanently end the relationship. Most abusive and toxic humans don't change for the better in the long run. In fact, they tend to make empty, insincere apologies and promises of positive change as a method of manipulating, controlling, and keeping their "loved ones" under their thumb.

Ignoring the issues of "lecturing" and "scolding", there are other red flags in the original post that indicates the relationship being unhealthy, if not toxic/abusive: 1) being guilt-tripped, 2) having rules imposed onto them, 3) not getting their emotional needs of understanding, sympathy, or kindness from the relationship met, 4) feeling like they can't have any secrets/privacy to themselves, and 5) feeling like they can't leave the relationship. The claims of the SS forum members "not truly caring" about poster and "not having empathy" looks suspiciously like they are trying to isolate the poster from getting the support they seek.

Anyone can be accused of mistreatment as it depends on the receiver how they perceive it however, it is logic and evidence that will prove it. To accuse someone and assume they are outright evil as what someone said without knowing the whole story is, in itself, toxic and abusive. Toxic because you are letting emotions do the thinking and without proper thought and further knowledge of the situation, it might just be an innapropriate suggestion and may well end with being harmful to the poster. It is also abusive of the fact that youre using your ignorance of the entirety of the story to condemn an individual. Im not saying the poster is wrong but us audiences with limited grasp of the entire situation, to outright condemn a person without knowing the full situation is, in itself, wrong much like bullying. Innocent until proven guilty or has cancel culture warped it to Guilty until proven innocent no? On further note, there is no indication nor mention in what their relationship is to have this kind of dynamic such as having rules or sense of responsibility over them. And as for the advice, we dont know the context of it. Therefore, until we know the entirety of the story, be careful of giving a concrete advice. Neutrality or company much better.

 

[Rogue Proxy]

Anyone can be accused of mistreatment as it depends on the receiver how they perceive it however, it is logic and evidence that will prove it. To accuse someone and assume they are outright evil as what someone said without knowing the whole story is, in itself, toxic and abusive. Toxic because you are letting emotions do the thinking and without proper thought and further knowledge of the situation, it might just be an innapropriate suggestion and may well end with being harmful to the poster. It is also abusive of the fact that youre using your ignorance of the entirety of the story to condemn an individual. Im not saying the poster is wrong but us audiences with limited grasp of the entire situation, to outright condemn a person without knowing the full situation is, in itself, wrong much like bullying. Innocent until proven guilty or has cancel culture warped it to Guilty until proven innocent no? On further note, there is no indication nor mention in what their relationship is to have this kind of dynamic such as having rules or sense of responsibility over them. And as for the advice, we dont know the context of it. Therefore, until we know the entirety of the story, be careful of giving a concrete advice. Neutrality or company much better.

I still stand by my advice of extricating one's self out of a relationship if the partner displays lack of compassion, respect, support, understanding, honesty, or clear and straightforward communication, and if the relationship has a significantly negative impact on one's mental health. While not everyone does well in solitude and there can be many messy mechanisms involved in bonding, attachments, and relationships; I strongly agree with the old saw of better being alone than being in bad company. Ending a negative relationship is the best start to healing from one. End of this debate.

@bloodfallsfirst, I hope you receive the support, understanding, and compassion you need from this forum.

 

[Chiisai]

So be it. Afterall, it is up to the OP to decide. And to the OP, I wish you find clarity and peace in both your thoughts and heart.

 

[FuneralCry]

I'm sorry that you have to deal with someone like that, some people can just be so cruel and can make everything worse. I know that this life really can be so awful when you are suffering a lot. I wish you the best in whatever happens.