D

dogemn

Student
May 30, 2023
113
I've never personally found any argument against suicide that really convinces me. The more philosophy I read, the more many common objections seem based on instinct or emotion rather than careful reasoning. When people call suicide "murder" or "unnatural" they often ignore that a right to life should also include the right to give it up, and that nature itself isn't a moral authority. If it were, we wouldn't use medicine to prevent or delay natural deaths.

The claim that suicide is selfish also feels very one-sided. It can just as easily be seen as selfish to expect someone to keep living with unbearable mental or physical suffering simply so others don't have to feel grief. None of us chose to be born, and being stuck in a life that has become intolerable is a tragedy, not a moral failure.

I think society has a strong optimism bias that makes people assume life is better than it really is for everyone. For people who suffer the costs of existence very clearly, choosing to end their life can be for them a rational attempt to regain control over a situation they never agreed to in the first place.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Informative
Reactions: SoulCage, kuroshimi, inkmage333 and 15 others
pthnrdnojvsc

pthnrdnojvsc

Extreme Pain is much worse than people know
Aug 12, 2019
4,134
i haven't heard anything that would ever convince me not to execute my suicide

the worst pain and the most horrible things far outweigh the fleeting things they say are "good" or pleasurable .

they can't say eating a sandwich or watching a video is worth for example a brain stroke and remaining alive with brain damage or having most of your skin burned off in a fire and remaining alive

it seems obvious to me if i don't exist i can't suffer unbearable pain but while alive i surely can so for me i'd rather not exist forever = my Death than to live

also they can't and haven't answered my question why do i have to live another minute ? i don't .
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Captive_Mind515, OnMyLast Legs, snow leopard and 3 others
Upvote 0
FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
46,472
No there isn't any, the peace of non-existence solves everything for me and there are no disadvantages to never suffering again, if I'm permanently unconscious I cannot suffer in any way yet there is no limit as to how much one can be tortured in this existence that was completely unnecessary in the first place and served no function but to bring pain and suffering all for the sake of it that there was never a need for at all that just leads to decay and death anyway.

I find it so cruel and terrible how there is even such a thing as anti-suicide as after all, this existence was so tragically imposed, nobody chose any of this so the fact that suicide is a crime despite how this existence was so cruelly burdened is really horrific, to me anti-suicide is evil with how they imprison others in this torturous, cruel existence against their wishes even know it's not even their existence. All they want is to make it so others are tortured in this existence for as much as long as possible, the way I see it suicide prevention is just prolonging suffering, it's extreme cruelty that just causes way more harm and torture, it's horrifying the amount of suffering pro-lifers have inflicted on others, it's criminal how I cannot just choose to painlessly cease existing to escape from the torture of existing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: snow leopard and dontletthembribeyou
Upvote 0
Arvayn

Arvayn

Face the end.
Nov 11, 2025
76
It's hard for people to make any convincing moral argument that doesn't eventually devolve into categorical reasoning ('this is right because it just is'), let alone on a deeply nuanced subject such as suicide. All arguments rely on a certain set of axioms or presuppositions that must be taken for granted in order to have logical grounds to stand on, but no idea in this world is ever truly self-justifying or fundamentally true. It is impossible to make a convincing argument for anything unless somebody understands a person's axioms very well and knows how to argue around them. No claim can be universally justified; everything is relative.

That said, this is a fun prompt, so I'm going to try to expound on this. I am not an authority on this matter. I welcome discourse if anyone wants to chime in.

To play the Devil's advocate and state my own view on it, what I personally like to consider are the ontological implications of the actionable objective of suicide: causing one's own death, resulting in annihilation of one's experienced self (assuming, of course, you do not believe in any afterlives or in spiritual permanence of the self).
Logically speaking, suicide is usually done with the goal of alleviating one's own suffering, or as an escape from the dissatisfaction experienced with life within one's own mental circumstances (or within society, or in more abstract cases even within the universe as a whole, etcetera). The supposition here is that one's self is the foundational cause of their suffering. In other words, by eliminating the origin or 'root' of one's feelings, the first principle from which everything else thereafter flows, it is a surefire way to ensure the end of your undesired experience and to be absolved from subjection to it.
A common rebuttal to this is that it also comes with the erasure of any possibility at improvement, or at experiencing any future form of happiness or pleasure ("it might get better!", "just keep trying!", etc.). From the suicidal person's point of view, this is often irrelevant, as it is much more preferable to him that he altogether avoids the X years of suffering that very likely are to be in store for him if he is to continue living, in comparison to continuing life in wait for the uncertain chance that some twist of fate may save him and cause a full recovery from his condition. I think most people would agree that if presented with the choice of enduring hardship with no benefit for it in exchange, or just preventing the hardship altogether, it would only make sense to choose the latter option.

Death, however, as far as the conscious self is concerned, is a form of prevention only in idea; in what is experienced firsthand by the subject, it is a form of erasure. To say that ending one's self is a preventative measure would be to make a category error. Even though one could say that future suffering can be avoided by a choice he makes now, avoidance requires you to be a conscious subject that is persisting through time and would have otherwise experienced the thing being avoided. By the death of one's self, they are erasing all possible emotional and cognitive states that could be experienced. You cannot logically compare "A state that I won't experience" (that is, if you kill yourself) vis a vis "a state I will experience" (that is, if you choose to live) if the first half of this comparison doesn't actually exist; your preference, after all, only exists so long as you are present. The suicidal, the "I" in this case, is evaluating the outcomes as if his preference will survive into the future, which, if he goes through with suicide, it won't.
By consequence, the act of suicide done with the goal of liberation from suffering is self-refuting in purpose. You are annihilating the very thing that you're seeking to benefit: yourself (even if it is through, say, removing yourself from the world so as to not be a burden on others; this still ultimately counts as a form of self-concern through seeking to achieve your exoneration from a perceived moral guilt). Suicide makes total sense only up until the very moment that you succeed to do it, and by then, you have already killed yourself too late. Under this view, life is defended not because any desirable things will happen if you live; they probably won't. Even so, being alive is the only condition under which any prudential value can exist for you at all.

This does not really mean suicide is a negative act, though. I view death as the most neutral, value-free state there is. It doesn't cause any suffering for the one taken by it, and it doesn't cause them any pleasure, and after all, we're all gonna die in the end anyway, so it doesn't truly matter when you die.

This argument is from a purely philosophical point of view, an argument "for the sake of the argument" so to speak. In reality, humans do not live like this. We are emotional creatures first and foremost, and the heart of man is a deceitful yet powerful thing. The best argument against suicide, in my opinion, often tends to be to not bother arguing against it at all, as it stems from emotion; rather, it is best fought with more emotion. One should strive to replace the suicidal person's misery and suffering with pleasure and joy, and then they will continue life regardless of how illogical or difficult it may be to do so. I have never successfully talked anyone out of suicide by providing them with logical counterarguments, but I've done it plenty of times by telling them I wish them well and that I'll be deeply miserable once they're gone. I myself even postponed my death because of a simple plea from my loved one.

Exactly 1000 words. Thanks for reading.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Mooncry, jatty and dogemn
Upvote 1
jatty

jatty

Just a matter of time.
Nov 13, 2023
187
It's hard for people to make any convincing moral argument that doesn't eventually devolve into categorical reasoning ('this is right because it just is'), let alone on a deeply nuanced subject such as suicide. All arguments rely on a certain set of axioms or presuppositions that must be taken for granted in order to have logical grounds to stand on, but no idea in this world is ever truly self-justifying or fundamentally true. It is impossible to make a convincing argument for anything unless somebody understands a person's axioms very well and knows how to argue around them. No claim can be universally justified; everything is relative.

That said, this is a fun prompt, so I'm going to try to expound on this. I am not an authority on this matter. I welcome discourse if anyone wants to chime in.

To play the Devil's advocate and state my own view on it, what I personally like to consider are the ontological implications of the actionable objective of suicide: causing one's own death, resulting in annihilation of one's experienced self (assuming, of course, you do not believe in any afterlives or in spiritual permanence of the self).
Logically speaking, suicide is usually done with the goal of alleviating one's own suffering, or as an escape from the dissatisfaction experienced with life within one's own mental circumstances (or within society, or in more abstract cases even within the universe as a whole, etcetera). The supposition here is that one's self is the foundational cause of their suffering. In other words, by eliminating the origin or 'root' of one's feelings, the first principle from which everything else thereafter flows, it is a surefire way to ensure the end of your undesired experience and to be absolved from subjection to it.
A common rebuttal to this is that it also comes with the erasure of any possibility at improvement, or at experiencing any future form of happiness or pleasure ("it might get better!", "just keep trying!", etc.). From the suicidal person's point of view, this is often irrelevant, as it is much more preferable to him that he altogether avoids the X years of suffering that very likely are to be in store for him if he is to continue living, in comparison to continuing life in wait for the uncertain chance that some twist of fate may save him and cause a full recovery from his condition. I think most people would agree that if presented with the choice of enduring hardship with no benefit for it in exchange, or just preventing the hardship altogether, it would only make sense to choose the latter option.

Death, however, as far as the conscious self is concerned, is a form of prevention only in idea; in what is experienced firsthand by the subject, it is a form of erasure. To say that ending one's self is a preventative measure would be to make a category error. Even though one could say that future suffering can be avoided by a choice he makes now, avoidance requires you to be a conscious subject that is persisting through time and would have otherwise experienced the thing being avoided. By the death of one's self, they are erasing all possible emotional and cognitive states that could be experienced. You cannot logically compare "A state that I won't experience" (that is, if you kill yourself) vis a vis "a state I will experience" (that is, if you choose to live) if the first half of this comparison doesn't actually exist; your preference, after all, only exists so long as you are present. The suicidal, the "I" in this case, is evaluating the outcomes as if his preference will survive into the future, which, if he goes through with suicide, it won't.
By consequence, the act of suicide done with the goal of liberation from suffering is self-refuting in purpose. You are annihilating the very thing that you're seeking to benefit: yourself (even if it is through, say, removing yourself from the world so as to not be a burden on others; this still ultimately counts as a form of self-concern through seeking to achieve your exoneration from a perceived moral guilt). Suicide makes total sense only up until the very moment that you succeed to do it, and by then, you have already killed yourself too late. Under this view, life is defended not because any desirable things will happen if you live; they probably won't. Even so, being alive is the only condition under which any prudential value can exist for you at all.

This does not really mean suicide is a negative act, though. I view death as the most neutral, value-free state there is. It doesn't cause any suffering for the one taken by it, and it doesn't cause them any pleasure, and after all, we're all gonna die in the end anyway, so it doesn't truly matter when you die.

This argument is from a purely philosophical point of view, an argument "for the sake of the argument" so to speak. In reality, humans do not live like this. We are emotional creatures first and foremost, and the heart of man is a deceitful yet powerful thing. The best argument against suicide, in my opinion, often tends to be to not bother arguing against it at all, as it stems from emotion; rather, it is best fought with more emotion. One should strive to replace the suicidal person's misery and suffering with pleasure and joy, and then they will continue life regardless of how illogical or difficult it may be to do so. I have never successfully talked anyone out of suicide by providing them with logical counterarguments, but I've done it plenty of times by telling them I wish them well and that I'll be deeply miserable once they're gone. I myself even postponed my death because of a simple plea from my loved one.

Exactly 1000 words. Thanks for reading.
After thinking about suicide a lot i came to the same conclusion. Everyone wants to attach a good or bad label to death. The thing that we dont want to admit to ourselves, is that its nothing. A completely null state. And we can't comprehend that.

Even so, i also came to the conclusion even if i wont be there to experience relief, i also wont be there to experience dissatisfaction from not being there to experience relief. It will be complete "peace"
 
  • Like
Reactions: IsolatedChaos, luvpup, dogemn and 1 other person
Upvote 0
Unlucky777

Unlucky777

Student
Dec 10, 2025
199
The permanent solution to a temporary problem one...

JK...my own, the one I'm grappling with now...life is starting to turn around for me in a bunch of ways, so should I keep going and see where this road leads to? I think I should keep going but then again there's the other side of me that is like "life is just not worth living"

Again things are looking up for me now. After 44 years of being in survival mode I feel like I'm becoming the person I was always meant to become but then I got off track for different reasons...
 
Upvote 0
Captive_Mind515

Captive_Mind515

King or street sweeper, dance with grim reaper!
Jul 18, 2023
499
No, never anything objective. There are of course subjective reasons that an individual might give themselves for choosing not to end their life. But at the end of the day, in terms of society, it can't really be a right to life if some of us are forced to stay here against our will... that would then be an obligation to live not a right.
 
Upvote 0
OnMyLast Legs

OnMyLast Legs

Too many regrets
Oct 29, 2024
741
the worst pain and the most horrible things far outweigh the fleeting things they say are "good" or pleasurable .
This is such a good point. Absolute safety from the worst pains is a strong argument for death.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pthnrdnojvsc
Upvote 0
F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
14,165
The only one for me is the effect it has on others. We can't really deny that. Maybe we can't predict it either necessarily. Some people may be ok when others absolutely won't.

But yeah- that's not really one that has a watertight defense- for me. Hence- why I'm still alive- stuck here.

We could argue- well- they simply shouldn't get that upset about it. But then- does that work on us? Why can't we simply choose to not be so upset about whatever it is that ails us? Surely- in both scenarios- it's a shitty life experience that affects us. Asking them to change their thinking and modifying their grief is similar to what they are doing to us. We hate it and won't tolerate it so- why would they?

Of course- it works in reverse too. For them to claim they won't recover from our suicide but we can recover from whatever it is that's troubling us seems like a double standard to me.

Ultimately though- whether they have a 'justified right' to grieve or not- they likely will and we knowingly inflicted that on them. I suppose it's the whole 'two wrongs don't make a right' scenario.

I suppose for me- it's about working within the parameters we have. I hold anti-natilist beliefs. I might be slightly less anti-natilist if the right to die was acknowledged AND available. I've found that tends to be a pro-natilist argument. What if we gave people the choice to leave when they got here? But you don't- neither emotionally or practically.

Same goes for suicide. If we knew it wouldn't affect people. They wouldn't feel devastating grief in some cases- it would be fine. But- that's not the reality and I'm not convinced it ever will be. Why wouldn't a parent be devastated at the loss of their child?

Again- being anti-natilist- I'd argue we should never have been brought here in the first place- trapped in a co-dependent relationship but again- natilism is normalized. Most parents simply don't see it like that. They don't imagine it will be tested either. That life may be so awful that we'll leave them in order to leave it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: inkmage333
Upvote 0
PI3.14

PI3.14

what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider
Oct 4, 2024
509
Life is beautiful!/j

Honestly? No. I mostly heard guilt tripping arguments, but nothing that addresses the feeling and the circumstances of the suicidal person, it's always "Live so that others don't grieve you"
 
  • Like
Reactions: OnMyLast Legs
Upvote 0
inkmage333

inkmage333

eagerly chasing the end
Feb 18, 2025
67
Nah, nothing so far has really convinced me to be against suicide. It's all about "oh you have to live for the sake of others" "suicide is a selfish choice"...okay, but I've lived and done things for others for far too long. Let me be selfish for once in my life and let me die.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pthnrdnojvsc
Upvote 0
luvpup

luvpup

inferiority complex
Oct 8, 2024
140
After thinking about suicide a lot i came to the same conclusion. Everyone wants to attach a good or bad label to death. The thing that we dont want to admit to ourselves, is that its nothing. A completely null state. And we can't comprehend that.

Even so, i also came to the conclusion even if i wont be there to experience relief, i also wont be there to experience dissatisfaction from not being there to experience relief. It will be complete "peace"
thats what i told him tchhhhhh
 
Upvote 0

Similar threads

N
Replies
2
Views
119
Offtopic
noname223
N
OzymandiAsh
Replies
7
Views
280
Suicide Discussion
ginko0
ginko0
D
Replies
5
Views
144
Recovery
dospi1
D
4hours-of-goobing
Replies
0
Views
129
Suicide Discussion
4hours-of-goobing
4hours-of-goobing