I have made a similar thread title concerning the reactions to this question. Though I think the topic is so interesting and there is so much to talk about that it deserves a second thread. I think almost all or at least very many people here in this forum were asked that question once. Many here are scared to reply the truth because of bad experienced and stimgatization.
I recently had some appointments with new psychiatrists and I was asked that question. One therapist once told me he never met any patient while depression (I think he meant major depression) who had no suicidal thoughts. He was convinced the ones who denied it only lied about it. It fits to some of my experiences. I opened up in my self help group about suicidality and it ended up kind of awkward because I was very honest. Someone talked in a pejorative way about suicide and I asked him whether he ever was suicidal. He denied it. I told the anecdote of that doctor and he responded after some digging well he had some of them. But he did not want to admit to be the ultimate loser because not wanting to live is according to him equivalent to that. Which is not my personal philosophy.
So the first thing is: when psychiatrist ask this do they only want to know whether the patient is honest? I am not sure. I think they take them serious. I am not sure what exactly it says about a person to answer this question with yes or no. How many lie? And what does it say about a person? Maybe how much the person can be trusted which can influence the relation between therapist and patient. I was always very transparent about my suicidality because expressing my pain helped. Someone told me I had suicide fantasies and that I glorify my own death once. I was pretty young that age and I changed somewhat since. But later in my life I talked explicitly about seppukku when I was acute suicidal. I can remember I was at the clinic at lunch with two therapists. I was highly suicidal I mentioned sepukku maybe because the topic was Japan. And with my finger I demonstrated how they cutted their heads off. Both of them were quite shocked. And the female therapist looked like feeling nauseous. I was angry at one of them because he made a mistake this is why I was so explicit. I wanted to say due to the fact I was very transparent about my suicidality there was a higher trust level. And I was not forced deeper into the psychiatry. I explained pretty explicitly my plans about suicide and because of that people trusted me to keep my word because of that.
Back the the answer of this thread. I could imagine some people are good at self-deceiving like my dad who is ingorant as fuck. Unpleasant truths do they keep out of their head. I am not sure I am no psychiatrist. Maybe some people do not want to admit towards themselves that they had suicidal thoughts. Maybe due to religious beliefs or some stigmatization.
Now a different perspective. From my perspective. What is this question is to me. Like there are so many facets. When I was asked that question I replied with yes I had suicidal thoughts. But this does not mean much. Not a few people with metnal illess have/had suicidal thoughts/ideation. So I could imagine that it is a question assessing how open the people are. The second question that psychiatrist had was have you ever tried to commit suicide? I can understand the question. People who attempted suicide are more likely to do it again maybe successfully. (this is no pre-determined law for an individual though). I could imagine this question is one tool to evaluate how severe and serious the suicidal thoughts are. In my case this question is not telling that much. My suicidality is very severe and serious despite the fact I never attempted. I once told it to a therpaist acute suicidal in the clinic. I never attempted because if I do it I want it to be secure, safe and succesful. I tried partial though, stood at the 7th floor of a building and looked down. Partial felt horrible. And I was sure this is no method for me. I did not want to go through with it. I wanted to know how it feels. I stood at the 7th floor also because I wanted to know how it feels and whether I am able to go through with. I could imagine jumping might be possible for me. However none of that was an attempt. I think it shows that my suicidality is serious (and persistent hence posting in this forum). But I had to answer no no attempt ever. So the question did not really work to assess the magnitutde of my suicidality. I will elaborate later on the magnitude thing. But I noticed the following. I am analyzing my suicide with the different options in-depth e.g., likelihood, failure rates, consequences etc. way more than other people. There are also a lot of people like that in this forum. But there are also the more impulsive ones who do not think that much about all of that. I was sometimes stunned. People posted a post like nothing else well I attempted yesterday and I have to go now to the hospital. I think this would be a very existential moment for me. And for some people it is just a random event happening. I guess the tolerance of doing it again might be lower when one did it once. But I also read about diametrical effects of such an attempt. I am like the analyzing guy who really wants a rational suicide after weighing up the pros and the cons in an objective way. I think this why I support this philosphy on this forum because it corrersponds to my own handling of my own life. If I am that cautious and debating it very rationally/carefully I would not like to argument that other people should do it in a different way than me. It is something different when people are very convinced in their mind and have for example philosophical reasons. I will respect that. But I would not want a discrepancy between handling my own life and suggesting how other people should handle their lives.
So back to the magnitude thing. The question is of course insane. It can mean so much. Saying yes does not say much as I pointed out having suicidal thoughts is not that seldom for mentally ill people (for a certain time period). I noticed when I said yes I had/have such thoughts they barely had a concerned reaction. And they always looked relaxed when I said no attempt. As I said these questions are not enough to judge my case. I think I have insanely much suicidal thoughts. I am now suicidal since a decade almost daily. When I am in a room with 15 people at college I ask myself whether I might have had more suicidal thoughts than the rest of the room combined. Lol. (Do you think that could be possible? Or am I underestimating the prevelance of suicidal thoughts?)
I also wanted once to post a thread speculating how much the average Joe and Jane thinks about suicide and how many times my suicidal thoughts multiplies that. ChatGPT could not deliver me with enough information it is too speculative. It is insane how much I think about suicide. It is clearly a big part of my identity. I post since now 3 years almost daily in a suicide forum. I read DFW because I relatesto much to his pain but also he has committed suicide and his descriptions are so fitting. My obligatory DFW quote to give the thread some value. (and to make this insanely long thread even longer so that noone will finish reading it)
"The so-called 'psychotically depressed' person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote 'hopelessness' or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring the fall; it's terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling 'Don't!' and 'Hang on!', can understand the jump. Not really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling." I love this quote I had to insert it fully. DFW knows what he is talking about.
I listen to Linkin Park but I also did that prior to Chester's suicide. On reddit they once warned about people who are obsessed by suicide. Suicide fantatics. Don't misunderstand me despite the fact I am thinking about suicide myriads of hours I don't see suicide as optimal solution. I think suicide should be seen as the last resort and I also argue for that but mostly on recovery. I might be obsessed by suicide because daily I cannot stop thinking about myself being forced to do it finally and that there is no escape for me. But I am far far away from being a promortalist. I don't consider that many positive attributes to suicide. For me it is the least of two evils. I don't sugarcoat it. I am rather sympathtic towards antinatalism but for me if the game once started it is very difficult to end it in a good way by oneself. For me it felt very tragic to commit suicide. I cried a lot and I think I will when I finally do it. But this goes off-topic.
The question does not say much. There are so many nuances about my suicidality which were never asked by therapists. Most forgot my answer pretty quickly. I had the feeling the psychiatry or at least many therapists are scared of people like me. People who are self-aware, smart, honest and genuinely good people who are very serious about suicide. These people would like that justice always wins (and they would like to be on the side of the good ones which the psychiatry not always is with the current regulations and laws.). They look for flaws why people might deserve such a fate. They asked me several times whether I abused drugs and hoped for a yes. There is a funny anecdote. The first time I was in the psychiatry they celebrated me never to have taken drugs and that I deserved such a good diagnosis. (it was a wrong one). They liked me, showed support and empathy. Though when I opened up about my serious and persisting suicidal thoughts the atmosphere changed. It got uncomfortable and in some way sometimes passive-hostile. I read about it in books. Therapists ask themselves whether it is their fault when the patient wants to die or kills himself. At least in my case and I think for many others the answer is: bitch my ass. Many here are broken because of the system. A single therapist is rather seldom the main reason. It is rather the way psychiatry treats people like us and how disingenous the society, elites, politicians, religions, the psychiatry treats this issue. The criminalization thing, Suicide as a grey area and not a human right all of that yada yada.
I am scared to miss the point. The thread is already ridiculously long. I might have sum up some other points in a short way. So many abstract memories flash through my head when people ask me this question. For them it is only one word but for me it is so much more. It is existential. It is my daily agony. It is the thing that keeps me up at nights. I once alluded in a very slight way to a college friend I have suicidal thoughts. He was so emotional and lost for words. Bro if he knew if he knew. It is also one of the guys I am scared how shocked they will be about my suicide. They are not prepared. The discrepancy I barely can think of something else and they know fucking nothing. It is insane. I think their perception of mine would change completely. I am scared about being pitied or being confronted with stereotpyes and clichees. WIth my best friends I had no problem admitting my thoughts. And I got rewarded for being honest. They are genuinely good people who are not judging. But I am pretty good at evaluating how people might react and who not to tell it. So maybe it is somewhat of a coming out. However less open and more restricted to a closer group. I also would not want to walk the street with a shirt "I hate myself and want to kill myself". I recently saw something to buy a chain with a razor on. it was a bestseller. I could not live with the judging and being that open. I am scared about hurtful replies. Moreover I am very careful not being seen as attention seeking because this is one of the most hurtful answers I could receive. In a better society such a hurtful answers should be punished with social stigmatization instead of the act suicide or talking about suicidality.
I think I could add a lot more. Maybe I will do a third thread about this topic. I will now start the obsessive behavior about correcting this thread a little bit.
Finished that shit. This thread helped me to stop thinking about a certain depressive-paranoid thought loop that tortures me so fucking much the last weeks. So thanks to all of the two people who had the strength to keep reading, reading and reading.
I recently had some appointments with new psychiatrists and I was asked that question. One therapist once told me he never met any patient while depression (I think he meant major depression) who had no suicidal thoughts. He was convinced the ones who denied it only lied about it. It fits to some of my experiences. I opened up in my self help group about suicidality and it ended up kind of awkward because I was very honest. Someone talked in a pejorative way about suicide and I asked him whether he ever was suicidal. He denied it. I told the anecdote of that doctor and he responded after some digging well he had some of them. But he did not want to admit to be the ultimate loser because not wanting to live is according to him equivalent to that. Which is not my personal philosophy.
So the first thing is: when psychiatrist ask this do they only want to know whether the patient is honest? I am not sure. I think they take them serious. I am not sure what exactly it says about a person to answer this question with yes or no. How many lie? And what does it say about a person? Maybe how much the person can be trusted which can influence the relation between therapist and patient. I was always very transparent about my suicidality because expressing my pain helped. Someone told me I had suicide fantasies and that I glorify my own death once. I was pretty young that age and I changed somewhat since. But later in my life I talked explicitly about seppukku when I was acute suicidal. I can remember I was at the clinic at lunch with two therapists. I was highly suicidal I mentioned sepukku maybe because the topic was Japan. And with my finger I demonstrated how they cutted their heads off. Both of them were quite shocked. And the female therapist looked like feeling nauseous. I was angry at one of them because he made a mistake this is why I was so explicit. I wanted to say due to the fact I was very transparent about my suicidality there was a higher trust level. And I was not forced deeper into the psychiatry. I explained pretty explicitly my plans about suicide and because of that people trusted me to keep my word because of that.
Back the the answer of this thread. I could imagine some people are good at self-deceiving like my dad who is ingorant as fuck. Unpleasant truths do they keep out of their head. I am not sure I am no psychiatrist. Maybe some people do not want to admit towards themselves that they had suicidal thoughts. Maybe due to religious beliefs or some stigmatization.
Now a different perspective. From my perspective. What is this question is to me. Like there are so many facets. When I was asked that question I replied with yes I had suicidal thoughts. But this does not mean much. Not a few people with metnal illess have/had suicidal thoughts/ideation. So I could imagine that it is a question assessing how open the people are. The second question that psychiatrist had was have you ever tried to commit suicide? I can understand the question. People who attempted suicide are more likely to do it again maybe successfully. (this is no pre-determined law for an individual though). I could imagine this question is one tool to evaluate how severe and serious the suicidal thoughts are. In my case this question is not telling that much. My suicidality is very severe and serious despite the fact I never attempted. I once told it to a therpaist acute suicidal in the clinic. I never attempted because if I do it I want it to be secure, safe and succesful. I tried partial though, stood at the 7th floor of a building and looked down. Partial felt horrible. And I was sure this is no method for me. I did not want to go through with it. I wanted to know how it feels. I stood at the 7th floor also because I wanted to know how it feels and whether I am able to go through with. I could imagine jumping might be possible for me. However none of that was an attempt. I think it shows that my suicidality is serious (and persistent hence posting in this forum). But I had to answer no no attempt ever. So the question did not really work to assess the magnitutde of my suicidality. I will elaborate later on the magnitude thing. But I noticed the following. I am analyzing my suicide with the different options in-depth e.g., likelihood, failure rates, consequences etc. way more than other people. There are also a lot of people like that in this forum. But there are also the more impulsive ones who do not think that much about all of that. I was sometimes stunned. People posted a post like nothing else well I attempted yesterday and I have to go now to the hospital. I think this would be a very existential moment for me. And for some people it is just a random event happening. I guess the tolerance of doing it again might be lower when one did it once. But I also read about diametrical effects of such an attempt. I am like the analyzing guy who really wants a rational suicide after weighing up the pros and the cons in an objective way. I think this why I support this philosphy on this forum because it corrersponds to my own handling of my own life. If I am that cautious and debating it very rationally/carefully I would not like to argument that other people should do it in a different way than me. It is something different when people are very convinced in their mind and have for example philosophical reasons. I will respect that. But I would not want a discrepancy between handling my own life and suggesting how other people should handle their lives.
So back to the magnitude thing. The question is of course insane. It can mean so much. Saying yes does not say much as I pointed out having suicidal thoughts is not that seldom for mentally ill people (for a certain time period). I noticed when I said yes I had/have such thoughts they barely had a concerned reaction. And they always looked relaxed when I said no attempt. As I said these questions are not enough to judge my case. I think I have insanely much suicidal thoughts. I am now suicidal since a decade almost daily. When I am in a room with 15 people at college I ask myself whether I might have had more suicidal thoughts than the rest of the room combined. Lol. (Do you think that could be possible? Or am I underestimating the prevelance of suicidal thoughts?)
I also wanted once to post a thread speculating how much the average Joe and Jane thinks about suicide and how many times my suicidal thoughts multiplies that. ChatGPT could not deliver me with enough information it is too speculative. It is insane how much I think about suicide. It is clearly a big part of my identity. I post since now 3 years almost daily in a suicide forum. I read DFW because I relatesto much to his pain but also he has committed suicide and his descriptions are so fitting. My obligatory DFW quote to give the thread some value. (and to make this insanely long thread even longer so that noone will finish reading it)
"The so-called 'psychotically depressed' person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote 'hopelessness' or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring the fall; it's terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling 'Don't!' and 'Hang on!', can understand the jump. Not really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling." I love this quote I had to insert it fully. DFW knows what he is talking about.
I listen to Linkin Park but I also did that prior to Chester's suicide. On reddit they once warned about people who are obsessed by suicide. Suicide fantatics. Don't misunderstand me despite the fact I am thinking about suicide myriads of hours I don't see suicide as optimal solution. I think suicide should be seen as the last resort and I also argue for that but mostly on recovery. I might be obsessed by suicide because daily I cannot stop thinking about myself being forced to do it finally and that there is no escape for me. But I am far far away from being a promortalist. I don't consider that many positive attributes to suicide. For me it is the least of two evils. I don't sugarcoat it. I am rather sympathtic towards antinatalism but for me if the game once started it is very difficult to end it in a good way by oneself. For me it felt very tragic to commit suicide. I cried a lot and I think I will when I finally do it. But this goes off-topic.
The question does not say much. There are so many nuances about my suicidality which were never asked by therapists. Most forgot my answer pretty quickly. I had the feeling the psychiatry or at least many therapists are scared of people like me. People who are self-aware, smart, honest and genuinely good people who are very serious about suicide. These people would like that justice always wins (and they would like to be on the side of the good ones which the psychiatry not always is with the current regulations and laws.). They look for flaws why people might deserve such a fate. They asked me several times whether I abused drugs and hoped for a yes. There is a funny anecdote. The first time I was in the psychiatry they celebrated me never to have taken drugs and that I deserved such a good diagnosis. (it was a wrong one). They liked me, showed support and empathy. Though when I opened up about my serious and persisting suicidal thoughts the atmosphere changed. It got uncomfortable and in some way sometimes passive-hostile. I read about it in books. Therapists ask themselves whether it is their fault when the patient wants to die or kills himself. At least in my case and I think for many others the answer is: bitch my ass. Many here are broken because of the system. A single therapist is rather seldom the main reason. It is rather the way psychiatry treats people like us and how disingenous the society, elites, politicians, religions, the psychiatry treats this issue. The criminalization thing, Suicide as a grey area and not a human right all of that yada yada.
I am scared to miss the point. The thread is already ridiculously long. I might have sum up some other points in a short way. So many abstract memories flash through my head when people ask me this question. For them it is only one word but for me it is so much more. It is existential. It is my daily agony. It is the thing that keeps me up at nights. I once alluded in a very slight way to a college friend I have suicidal thoughts. He was so emotional and lost for words. Bro if he knew if he knew. It is also one of the guys I am scared how shocked they will be about my suicide. They are not prepared. The discrepancy I barely can think of something else and they know fucking nothing. It is insane. I think their perception of mine would change completely. I am scared about being pitied or being confronted with stereotpyes and clichees. WIth my best friends I had no problem admitting my thoughts. And I got rewarded for being honest. They are genuinely good people who are not judging. But I am pretty good at evaluating how people might react and who not to tell it. So maybe it is somewhat of a coming out. However less open and more restricted to a closer group. I also would not want to walk the street with a shirt "I hate myself and want to kill myself". I recently saw something to buy a chain with a razor on. it was a bestseller. I could not live with the judging and being that open. I am scared about hurtful replies. Moreover I am very careful not being seen as attention seeking because this is one of the most hurtful answers I could receive. In a better society such a hurtful answers should be punished with social stigmatization instead of the act suicide or talking about suicidality.
I think I could add a lot more. Maybe I will do a third thread about this topic. I will now start the obsessive behavior about correcting this thread a little bit.
Finished that shit. This thread helped me to stop thinking about a certain depressive-paranoid thought loop that tortures me so fucking much the last weeks. So thanks to all of the two people who had the strength to keep reading, reading and reading.
