Discussion Has your religious belief (if you have any) been bolstered by the suffering you are going through?

[Life_is_comedy]

For me, ironically yes. The Christian worldview holds the belief that the cause of our own suffering is rebellion from God and our own selfishness and sin. We war, lie, cheat, rape, kill and steal in order to fulfill our fleshly desires. The whole bible if you read it from beginning to end is about humanity being rebellious, falling deep again and again into sin and in the worst cases, depravity and God asking His people to come back to Him and follow His ways so that we may have life. From Genesis to the Prophets in the Old Testament to Jesus Christ sacrificing Himself in the New Testament, it has always been about the rebelliousness of human beings and how we cause untold misery in this world and God always asking us to come back to Him. People have caused me suffering so much in life and me also having caused others suffering that I cannot deny how the message holds true every day.

tl;dr life is suffering and we human beings are the cause of it.

It's ironic but me being suicidal and suffering throughout my entire life has confirmed the truth of God in my heart and made me come closer to Him. This is not borne in any way out of desperation but rather through the logical conclusion brought forth in the bible. The bible says there is hope though so I will cling on to that for now.

 

[almost_dead]

I hate God . Frick you God .

 

[Life_is_comedy]

I hate God . Frick you God .

I can get why you might want to hate someone who allows suffering but the Christian worldview, if you actually read it biblically, is that we humans are the cause of suffering and misery on this world and we spread it like a plague (sin). Imagine if everyone actually took Christianity seriously with all that "love thy neighbor stuff". Imagine if everyone was like Ned Flanders in the Simpsons, you would have less suffering in this world. It's certainly a neighbor and world that I would want.

 

[MariV]

definitely. ive become much more interested in religion and spirituality due to the suffering ive experienced. Actually i was just now reading this text:

When reincarnated, do our souls actually choose to live a life of being poor, rich, or diseased just for the experience itself or is it r...

Answer (1 of 10): Based on the research I have been doing the last fifty plus years, it is definitely not randomized. Each one of us are here to learn specific lessons in order to elevate our spiritual energy. When we elevate this energy high enough, there won’t be any more reasons to reincarnate...

www.quora.com

 

[almost_dead]

Atheism is a non-prophet organisation.

 

[death137]

I wish I 100% believe in God especially in Christian God. It probably would have made be believe that the problems I'm facing and life in general have meaning. But I don't know what to believe. God may exist but I'm not seeing signs. I'm jealous of ppl who have one sure believe whether in God existence or reincarnation or nothingness or some other thing.

 

[Acopia]

My illness and suffering make my faith stronger. I cling to God and he has brought me safe thus far. Had God not found me, I would be long since dead.
When I do experience intrusive ctb thoughts, I am comforted in the knowledge that when I do act, I will be going to meet Jesus.
- Acopia

 

[Life_is_comedy]

I wish I 100% believe in God especially in Christian God. It probably would have made be believe that the problems I'm facing and life in general have meaning. But I don't know what to believe. God may exist but I'm not seeing signs. I'm jealous of ppl who have one sure believe whether in God existence or reincarnation or nothingness or some other thing.

You should read Ecclesiastes and Job. It speaks to people like us. If we are to follow the biblical philosophy of things, it's that God directs the flow in the macro level (ie nations, the bigger picture, universe, etc) and is in control but allows random chance and events to happen at the micro level (ie our interactions with other human beings and freak accidents in nature) hence the pointlessness and suffering of it all we experience as human beings. The Book of Ecclesiastes lays this out while the Book of Job points out that even the righteous suffer because of sin from others (in this case, he was oppressed by Satan). Ironically, my suffering and suicidal ideations in life has proved all of that and bolstered my faith.

 

[Worthless_nobody]

No christianity and the religious abuse I endured in a christian school (pastors inappropriate touching, bullied, and told I was going to hell) is one of the reasons I am suicidal. I am an atheist and if anything the whole thing and me being suicidal brought me closer to atheism but not religion..

 

[Life_is_comedy]

No christianity and the religious abuse I endured in a christian school (pastors inappropriate touching, bullied, and told I was going to hell) is one of the reasons I am suicidal.

Sorry that happened to you. This just proves without a doubt that human beings are the source of suffering in this world. Replace "christian school" with any other school or organization and those same abusers would still keep doing what they're doing under a different name.

 

[death137]

@Life_is_comedy

You said human are the cause if suffering and I agree in part but don't you think life in general is the cause of suffering? For example look at the herbivores being scared about prey and then butchered by them.

 

[pleasethistime]

I was quite religious only 3 years ago. Then i started truthseeking. First i became an atheist then nihilist, then antinatalist, then efilist.

We are gene copying biorobots, slaves to selfish genes, thats the ultimate truth i ve reached. Will to live and all our desires serve evolutionary purposes of survival and procreation. Even altruism is selfish, virtue is biology oriented con game. Normal, healthy, functioning people live in illusions and repress consciousness in various ways and affirm the Will.

My Truth Read list
Truth and Reality by Otto Rank
The Selfish Gene by Dawkins
Man Made God by Barbara Walker
Astrotheology and Shaman Roots of Christianity by Jan Irvin
Totem and Tabu by Freud
Denial of Death by Ernest Becker
Primitive Mythology by Joseph Campbell
The Conspiracy Against the Human Race by Ligotti
The Last Messiah by Zappfe
and all works by E.M.Cioran

"If truth is what you seek, then the examined life will only take you on a long ride to the limits of solitude and leave you by the side of the road with your truth and nothing else."

I am at here, the side of the road,detached from humanity, country, values, meaning ect.

If you are going to live, dont deconstruct and dig deep. This added to my suffering. Even my health issues are fixed miracolously tomorrow, i am not sure i would be able to function again. I feel so alien everywhere except here and r/efilism /pessimism and /antinatalism

 

[VIBRITANNIA]

take these words with a grain of salt, as i haven't read the bible; i've just had statues of holy figures in my house and been forced to go to church and listen to songs i never really understood.

i guess the amount of "suffering" i've been going through recently has opened me up to the possibility that god exists. that doesn't mean i believe in him, though. why does he let us be so sinful, if he's an all-powerful being?

i know it's our responsibility to reject sin, but we're so weak compared to him. has god ever sinned before? how can he tell us not to sin when his hands are clean?

i know you can confess to your sins, but does that change what you've done? you've still sinned. realizing what you've done wrong doesn't undo the suffering you've caused. can sins ever truly be forgiven?

 

[TheQ22]

Yes, being a devil worshipper I am more convinced than ever that imps and sprites and demons are poking my nether regions with red hot pokers and forked instruments.

So I believe in He Who Shall Not Be Named more than ever before.

 

[Squiddy]

One reason I haven't ctb is because of my fear of a potential hell

 

[schopenh]

While I did read it all:

tl;dr life is suffering and we human beings are the cause of it.

The suffering is arbitrary and has nothing to do with JHVH of the old and new testament. If a baby born with gross deformities has a 20 minute life marked only by suffering and then dies and that's some sort of lesson for rebellion against JHVH then the christian god's idea of discipline rivals any given dictator of the 20th century. I should think that JHVH is the one that has a lot to answer for then.

 

[BipolarGuy]

I can get why you might want to hate someone who allows suffering but the Christian worldview, if you actually read it biblically, is that we humans are the cause of suffering and misery on this world and we spread it like a plague (sin). Imagine if everyone actually took Christianity seriously with all that "love thy neighbor stuff". Imagine if everyone was like Ned Flanders in the Simpsons, you would have less suffering in this world. It's certainly a neighbor and world that I would want.

The 'church' that I used to do the accounts for was absolutely mad.
I mean mad.

I'm not a Christian now, and to be honest I was sucked into going along anyway.

I was once told that the reason for my depression is because having 'relations' with a girl I met at university had cursed me.
This is unbiblical, as according to the bible all curses died with Jesus.

In religious circles, the more mad you are the stronger your faith will be deemed to be.

It's a backwards world.
And I know what a devout christian would say to that: "it's the world that is backwards, not us".
To which I say: "Whatever, get your head out of the echo chamber".

 

[TheQ22]

The 'church' that I used to do the accounts for was absolutely mad.
I mean mad.

I'm not a Christian now, and to be honest I was sucked into going along anyway.

I was once told that the reason for my depression is because having 'relations' with a girl I met at university had cursed me.
This is unbiblical, as according to the bible all curses died with Jesus.

In religious circles, the more mad you are the stronger your faith will be deemed to be.

It's a backwards world.
And I know what a devout christian would say to that: "it's the world that is backwards, not us".
To which I say: "Whatever, get your head out of the echo chamber".

Man my ex got sucked at one point into a crazy church that did the alpha course - I once went - they were rolling round on the floor babbling "in tongues".

One really nice guy I knew, would do anything for anyone, super kind person - he left, he said "I don't know who they're talking to, but it isn't God" - not "this thing is nuts" - but it's the wrong frequency or whatever. He just found an alternative insane church to go to.

Ex wanted to let daughter during a difficult time in her youthful development when she felt she had no friends, to go to the week long or 2 week long kids alpha course, it's basically indoctrination, they can't communicate with the outside world, are subjected to intense all day long "Jesus is our hero" type rock concerts and other psychological tortures.

I refused to let her go - I was the villian to daughter and ex wife, but to my mind - she'd be mad as a sack of spanners now if I'd let her go.

Super manipulative and some crazy people.

 

[AynoTnTime]

All the suffering in the world, including that of wild animals at the will of other wild animals makes me believe that there is no loving, caring, compassionate, all powerful, all knowing god.

 

[BipolarGuy]

Man my ex got sucked at one point into a crazy church that did the alpha course - I once went - they were rolling round on the floor babbling "in tongues".

One really nice guy I knew, would do anything for anyone, super kind person - he left, he said "I don't know who they're talking to, but it isn't God" - not "this thing is nuts" - but it's the wrong frequency or whatever. He just found an alternative insane church to go to.

Ex wanted to let daughter during a difficult time in her youthful development when she felt she had no friends, to go to the week long or 2 week long kids alpha course, it's basically indoctrination, they can't communicate with the outside world, are subjected to intense all day long "Jesus is our hero" type rock concerts and other psychological tortures.

I refused to let her go - I was the villian to daughter and ex wife, but to my mind - she'd be mad as a sack of spanners now if I'd let her go.

Super manipulative and some crazy people.

Bloody crazy mate!

VERY long story short:

I did their accounts when I ran my own accounting business.
Several forms of fraud were going on on the part of the pastor and the in-circle.

Talking in tongues and giving them money is informally seen as a 'test' of faith. Not a formal test, but if you do these things your faith will be judged as being strong.

The more you let them control your life (which is done subtly), the more you'll be respected.
Manipulation is exactly the right word.

The pastors and elders in churches like this tend to depict themselves as a 'link' between people and god.
Totally unbiblical.

At the church I did accounts for, sometimes the pastor would invite people to the front for him to 'prophesise' over them.
What he would say, if you listened with a neutral ear, was just positive babble that could apply to anyone's life but the person he was talking to would in their mind apply it to whatever situation they were in.

I'm glad you stepped in and kept your daughter sane.

 

[TheQ22]

All the suffering in the world, including that of wild animals at the will of other wild animals makes me believe that there is no loving, caring, compassionate, all powerful, all knowing god.

Animals eat plants (living things) to survive. Animals eat other animals (living things) to survive.

Where do you think your burgers and eggs and milk come from?

We do it on an industrial, inhuman scale, not in a naturally, sustainable way.

I haven't eaten for 2 days, not because I'm not hungry, but I want to reduce what my intake of unnecessary foods is - I've lost almost 2 stone and I'm still a stone and a half overweight.

Whether you are vegan, or vegetarian, or a meat eater, if you're overweight you're more of a problem than a lion that kills a gazelle.

Bloody crazy mate!

VERY long story short:

I did their accounts when I ran my own accounting business.
Several forms of fraud were going on on the part of the pastor and the in-circle.

Talking in tongues and giving them money is informally seen as a 'test' of faith. Not a formal test, but if you do these things your faith will be judged as being strong.

The more you let them control your life (which is done subtly), the more you'll be respected.
Manipulation is exactly the right word.

The pastors and elders in churches like this tend to depict themselves as a 'link' between people and god.
Totally unbiblical.

At the church I did accounts for, sometimes the pastor would invite people to the front for him to 'prophesise' over them.
What he would say, if you listened with a neutral ear, was just positive babble that could apply to anyone's life but the person he was talking to would in their mind apply it to whatever situation they were in.

I'm glad you stepped in and kept your daughter sane.

Ah that's a bit like the test they did with a "psychic" (actually a magician, ian Rowland I think was his name). They gave an audience of people in a tv studio a personalised personalty trait type report based on their birth dates and astrology and asked them to rate it 1 to 10.

They were all given the same report the exact same words with like you say generalised traits that would apply to anyone - it's the full facts book of cold reading - his book with that in it.

I didn't care what the ex or daughter thought, I read various reports from people who said their kids came back like zombies or different people - she was vulnerable - not going to let her go.

Couldn't understand why the ex wife was all for it. Apart from her being nuts.

Ex would have had more control over daughter and me and son.

 

[Superdeterminist]

I can get why you might want to hate someone who allows suffering but the Christian worldview, if you actually read it biblically, is that we humans are the cause of suffering and misery on this world and we spread it like a plague (sin). Imagine if everyone actually took Christianity seriously with all that "love thy neighbor stuff". Imagine if everyone was like Ned Flanders in the Simpsons, you would have less suffering in this world. It's certainly a neighbor and world that I would want.

Humans are a cause of suffering, but we aren't the cause of suffering. If no human ever murdered, thieved, or committed any other immoral act, suffering would still occur, in the form of diseases, accidents, and natural disasters, none of which any human had a hand in creating. So, I think that while "love thy neighbour" is a great message and would help to greatly reduce suffering, it would by no means eliminate it.

 

[TheQ22]

Humans are a cause of suffering, but we aren't the cause of suffering. If no human ever murdered, thieved, or committed any other immoral act, suffering would still occur, in the form of diseases, accidents, and natural disasters, none of which any human had a hand in creating. So, I think that while "love thy neighbour" is a great message and would help to greatly reduce suffering, it would by no means eliminate it.

If humans didn't exist there would still be "suffering" of other animals and etc to other creatures.

We center everything around us and how everything relates to us, when in natures eyes - we're no more significant than a dead ant.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

The Christian worldview holds the belief that the cause of our own suffering is rebellion from God and our own selfishness and sin

Why is it that so many evil, manipulative, narcissistic people 'succeed' in the world and live out nice lives of luxury and never really suffer, and decent, compassionate, caring people frequently suffer and get a bad lot in life?
I'm not sure I buy this idea about 'rebellion from God' being the cause of suffering. Suffering and happiness seem to be so randomly distributed in the world, with evil people succeeding and good people failing, that the Christian narrative makes little sense to me.

life is suffering and we human beings are the cause of it.

What about natural disasters and diseases? Humans aren't the cause of these.
And all the suffering in the natural world, with animals ripping each other apart etc.
The problem of evil is much broader than just the suffering specifically caused by human design and action.

 

[muffin222]

I'm not religious, but spiritual. But, yes. I do believe that on a higher level my suffering has some greater purpose in the sense that it's deepened my empathy for other people who are also suffering and has given me some insight and wisdom that I can share with others facing similar struggles in their own lives. That doesn't make the pain any easier to cope with, though

 

[AynoTnTime]

gazelle

Actually, people who procreate cause the most harm to this planet.
And, for your information, some people are fat due to medical issues and not always because of how much they eat.
I don't want to eat because I know that even if it's a plant or animal, I'd be killing another living being. That's part of the reason I'd rather not be alive.
If this so called god was all powerful and all knowing, it would find another way for creation to work.

If humans didn't exist there would still be "suffering" of other animals and etc to other creatures.

We center everything around us and how everything relates to us, when in natures eyes - we're no more significant than a dead ant.

VERY TRUE

 

[Xocoyotziin]

For me it's the other way around. My superstitious beliefs torture me but because I believe in their possible reality I can't just get rid of them. I don't think there's a higher purpose to it or that it's meant to make things right in the end. I felt closer to god or whatever you might call it before all of this.

 

[Hopeindeath!]

My suffering has definitely brought me closer to God. I know I deserve to suffer from all the things I've done wrong. I am just grateful for the mercy God has shown me.

 

[OnlyTheWind]

It has been a strange journey, but I can say with certainty that this is true in my case. I was a Christian almost two years ago, but then when I found out about Ti and Do and Heaven's Gate, my whole perception of this reality changed. Even though I still ask 'Why' and feel depressed, hopeless and jealous, I've begun to view it all as a sign that this world holds nothing for me, and that my only future is beyond human.

 

[Pharmaruined]

Animals eat plants (living things) to survive. Animals eat other animals (living things) to survive.

Where do you think your burgers and eggs and milk come from?

We do it on an industrial, inhuman scale, not in a naturally, sustainable way.

I haven't eaten for 2 days, not because I'm not hungry, but I want to reduce what my intake of unnecessary foods is - I've lost almost 2 stone and I'm still a stone and a half overweight.

Whether you are vegan, or vegetarian, or a meat eater, if you're overweight you're more of a problem than a lion that kills a gazelle.

Ah that's a bit like the test they did with a "psychic" (actually a magician, ian Rowland I think was his name). They gave an audience of people in a tv studio a personalised personalty trait type report based on their birth dates and astrology and asked them to rate it 1 to 10.

They were all given the same report the exact same words with like you say generalised traits that would apply to anyone - it's the full facts book of cold reading - his book with that in it.

I didn't care what the ex or daughter thought, I read various reports from people who said their kids came back like zombies or different people - she was vulnerable - not going to let her go.

Couldn't understand why the ex wife was all for it. Apart from her being nuts.

Ex would have had more control over daughter and me and son.

Every living thing on this planet is lunch.. including us. We're not at the top of the food chain.. bugs, worms etc are eating at you from the inside as we speak.. it's part of aging.

This whole incarnation is a scam. We've all been tricked to incarnate into flesh either via guilt or some false prophet telling us we need to become spiritually whole.. etc or some bs..
.
it's all a game, and we drew the short straws.

but at the end of the day, nobody gets out alive.