twolegs

twolegs

twoarms
Sep 17, 2024
20
It feels a bit hypocritical to try and convince someone else to live when you don't really want to yourself. I understand why they wouldn't want to be here anymore but it's hard to let them go that way. The thought of grieving someone who's so important to you seems impossible, unfathomable. I hate seeing people suffer. I've had suicidal friends and watched people suffer my whole life. It's just hard trying to pour from an empty cup, it's not that I don't want to help I just don't know how.



I'm guess I'm just wondering how other people manage this, surely I'm not alone.
 
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Hero Remeer

Hero Remeer

Member
Sep 22, 2024
34
In my case I don't think so, what has happened to me is that I have touched on the subject with people I trust and that has allowed us to get to know each other better through that suffering, that has made me think that most of us have thought about killing ourselves at some point in our lives.
The other thing that happened to me is that a coworker committed suicide, the news just arrived and that shocked me, but when you look back and put certain things together the person was in a certain sense telling you.
I think it's normal to be hypocritical in that sense, deep down we only want the best for the other because in part we understand that suffering.
Greetings, I hope you are well
 
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wren-briar

wrenbriar.gitlab.io
Jul 1, 2024
35
I have, but it was not when I was actively suicidal (although I firmly believed it was an individual's right long before hand).

I our case, we were on active duty, and I was an unofficial counselor. I.e a person, who I didn't know, would bang on my door in the middle of the night, with someone else who was claiming to be suicidal, who I also didn't know and tell me to deal with them. (Initially, I tried to figure out why these stangers were bringing other stangers to my door like this. But, at a certain point, I just accepted this role, although I never did learn why they thought I would be helpful, given we never knew each other. The military has some strange ways of dealing with things, and while I never did learn how I ended up in this role, it was better than many alternatives.)

I had a total of one "intro to psych" class, and they told us that if we were ever in such a situation, we should get a commitment to have breakfast or lunch with the person the next day. All but one person who was brought to my door, I was able to, pretty quickly, get such a commitment. Mind you, every single one was drunk, and I never did have a meal with any of them, but there also weren't any reported suicides, so our brief conversations and that meal commitment must have been just enough to keep those people safe until the sobered up.

The one exception broke my heart in so many ways. This young person had experienced something I wouldn't wish on anyone, none of the criminals involved were prosecuted, they never would be, and, as if that wasn't bad enough, this person had to work with those criminals day in and day out. Unfortunately, this person had turned to alcohol to numb the pain, but was underage, so was being prosecuted for that. (Yes, you read correctly, their assailants were not being prosecuted for a heinious crime, but the victim was being prosecuted for underage drinking.) Even after several hours of talking with this person and understanding what brought them to this point, this person refused to have a meal with me the next day, and was crystal clear what they were going to do if I didn't escort them to the psych ward. To be clear, they did NOT want to be taken to the ward, but they understood my obligaton, given the situation. I honestly bawled in the parking lot after they were admitted.

They were held on the psych ward for months until the military finally discharged them with a dishonorable discharge, using the underage drinking and missing a single AA meeting as the justification. Mind you, they had been required to attend mutiple AA meetings every single day for months while on the ward.

I ended up visiting them once or twice a week (even after I was told that doing so had put me on some less than desirable radars).

The last time I saw or heard from that person was after their discharge, when their parents took us out to lunch.

They were grateful to not be in the ward anymore, grateful not to have to work with their assailants anymore, and grateful not to have to attend useless AA meetings anymore.

Their parents were very grateful for everything I had done for their child (which, given the gravity of the assaults they had survived, still felt like far too little).

I know that the dishonorable discharge has undoubtedly had negative impacts for them, to include denial of VA support that they absolutely should have received.

And, of course, even decades later, I often wonder how they're doing.
 
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mango-meridian

mango-meridian

Member
Apr 5, 2024
39
I've never had someone confide in me that they were suicidal, but I'm sure I've known plenty of people that have been there and just didn't tell me.

If/when that day comes, my plan is simple: tell them that I won't rat them out, report them, etc. for having those thoughts. Then, if it's the right person/circumstance, I may even tell them I believe in the right to die. Of course, I also plan to let them know how much I love them and care about them in the same breath.

People need to have safe places to talk about these things without repercussions.
 
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twolegs

twolegs

twoarms
Sep 17, 2024
20
I've never had someone confide in me that they were suicidal, but I'm sure I've known plenty of people that have been there and just didn't tell me.

If/when that day comes, my plan is simple: tell them that I won't rat them out, report them, etc. for having those thoughts. Then, if it's the right person/circumstance, I may even tell them I believe in the right to die. Of course, I also plan to let them know how much I love them and care about them in the same breath.

People need to have safe places to talk about these things without repercussions.
I feel like for me, it's always been the wrong person. For some reason I seem to draw hurting people to me, I'm glad everyone that has confided in me trusts me with such information but it's just really hard to hear from a best friend or a partner. I let them know that I won't tell anyone so they feel safe to keep talking about it but idk what to do after that
 
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mango-meridian

mango-meridian

Member
Apr 5, 2024
39
I feel like for me, it's always been the wrong person. For some reason I seem to draw hurting people to me, I'm glad everyone that has confided in me trusts me with such information but it's just really hard to hear from a best friend or a partner. I let them know that I won't tell anyone so they feel safe to keep talking about it but idk what to do after that
Just by being someone that they feel safe confiding in you are already doing a lot! If your cup is empty and you don't have much to give, then you don't have much to give. If/when the day comes when your cup is more full, then maybe you can worry about it some more. My personal take is each person that's hurting needs something unique, but helping them to see what that is and how they can attain it takes work and energy on your part.
 
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-Link-

-Link-

Deep Breaths
Aug 25, 2018
409
Move away from the thoughts of being a hypocrite in this situation.

Look at your own suicidality as an ally, instead, because it gives you an ability to relate to that person on an empathetic level that most people cannot.

At the same time, you want to be careful so as not to take on too much ownership of their situation. If you find yourself in too deep, emotionally, don't hesitate to reach out for help in dealing with your own emotions.

So, suicidality occurs on a spectrum. On one extreme is "passive ideation" while on the other extreme is "they're attempting suicide right now." For anybody who deals with this, they can be anywhere on that spectrum at any given time.

If they're currently on the lower end of the spectrum -- maybe just lamenting life and saying how they'd rather be dead, but not actually actively suicidal, then maybe there is a conversation to be had, or maybe there's not. Sometimes just being with the other person -- just being present with them -- and the fact that they know you're available if they need support, is all they need. If in doubt, you could ask if they want to talk about it. Or you could request permission to ask them questions about it.

If you're talking to someone who is actively suicidal, you want to use direct language all the way through the conversation. This is to say, you're not going to do any harm by asking point-blank questions such as, "Are you thinking of suicide?" "Have you thought about how you'd do it?" "When are you planning to die?" "Do you have access to the things you want to use to do it?" These types of questions can act as a risk assessment of sorts.

General pointers:
  • You want to do more listening than talking.
  • You can repeat back to them (paraphrase) some of the things they say to show them you're actively listening.
  • Communicate in a way that's supportive, understanding, and free of criticism or judgement.
  • Maintain a reassuring, hopeful tone.
  • Validate their feelings.
  • Ask what's causing them to feel suicidal.
  • Ask how you can help.
  • Ask what they think would make them feel better.
  • Ask what reasons they have to keep living.
It's OK to push back on their reasons for wanting to die, but be gentle about it and as realistic as possible. Their reasons for wanting to die are distinct from their feelings; again, be careful not to make invalidating statements. If unable to think of reasons to live, remind them that the very fact they're engaged in conversation with you is evidence that they're unsure about their decision to die.

You could research treatment options for them. You could offer to help and support them in any efforts to engage treatment. But only do this if you're willing to follow through. Avoid false statements, false promises, and false hopes.

If you have to leave their presence while they are still in a state of emotional distress, then what you want to do is help them make a plan to stay safe through the night (or through to the next day or whatever time period). If they've ever engaged in treatment, what techniques have they learned to help get them through the moment? What distractions can they engage in? You want them to buy into the idea of staying safe in the short-term. Ask them to make a list of people and phone numbers they can contact if they spiral again in the interim. Ask them to promise you that if they start spiralling again, they'll make a call to a loved one, or otherwise emergency services if they can't reach a loved one.

And of course, with respect to the fact that we're talking about this on a pro-choice suicide forum... If the other person intends on dying in the immediate future, and they have a detailed plan, and they have ready access to the means to carry out their plan... Then, pro-choice or not, there is a difficult decision to be made, indeed.

This is just a general blueprint. There is no perfect way to navigate this kind of conversation or situation.

Remember you can only do your best, and your best is all you can ask or expect of yourself.
 
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