giving up on fk and going full time suicide

[want2dienow]

i just had a realization that it is utterly futile to continue on such a farce. even in the indie realm, its nothing. i dont need to bring any more shame to myself than i've already have by not killing myself.
i cannot be black and a game developer its not possible, the reality.

admitting was hard, no that ive had i can feel comfortable taking the sn when it arrives

 

[catflowers]

why would you say that about being black? it is possible to be a game developer and make lots of money and be black
I don't exactly like games but i am sure people will support you if you put yourself out there
At least you are doing something with your life unlike me who is doing jack shit with their life every single day
are you a guy or women? because if you are a black woman then you are actually fucked in the video game industry and i would take the sn

 

[theboy]

What is fk?
There are many places that could accept you

 

[Life_and_Death]

a game developer its not possible

may i ask why this isnt possible?

 

[Raskolnikov's Axe]

As a gamer, I know things are tough for Indie devs overall, but I do not know how race impacts it, to be honest. Would you care to explain? Out of all Indie games i've played/followed development, I've never given much thought to dev's race.

 

[want2dienow]

What is fk?
There are many places that could accept you

Final Kismet

As a gamer, I know things are tough for Indie devs overall, but I do not know how race impacts it, to be honest. Would you care to explain? Out of all Indie games i've played/followed development, I've never given much thought to dev's race.

what goes on behind the scenes is that what you cannot see.
No one funds when they find out.
i've had applications and intakes that went perfectly through first and second communication (emails), but when it times to hop on zoom meeting, or phone call, 2 common happens
-ghosts for ~2/month, return saying not proceeding
-suddenly changes from good to not proceeding, no reason given.

this has been recurring, particularly with western studios and publishers.
It's why I no longer can do phone calls. Just the sound of my voice and they know. i started to hate my voice too; so much that i went mute for a long while. even nowadays i dont talk much still, i'm not too crazy over my voice. i dont even talk as a typically black man, or have a strong 'black accent'. but enough one would catch on.
It's happened through last year and this year as well. I was too poor to be able to save the side; it was either not or starve to death, miss rent, al that and thus i became homeless trying to do so.

I've also had particularly in the west say that FK was basically shit, did not meet the 'standards'. and that characters designs where 'concerning (this was the case with O.Tribal, Freyja and Ariya).of course there would be black forefront characters, but tis not the only and of course many other elements.
I was gonna give up then, if my last try ended the same, but i didn't, i was only accepted when I met and meeting with Mania Carta/Sandstorm, the demography makes a difference; I cannot work with the west at those 4 incidents.

 

[Smart No More]

why would you say that about being black? it is possible to be a game developer and make lots of money and be black
I don't exactly like games but i am sure people will support you if you put yourself out there
At least you are doing something with your life unlike me who is doing jack shit with their life every single day
are you a guy or women? because if you are a black woman then you are actually fucked in the video game industry and i would take the sn

Well that took a turn.

You started out well but then went full u turn essentially.

Black male or female, you can be in gaming. I am certain of this. If you're fond of game art you can also go into that. Although it's a saturated market there are options. Especially if you're able to put a decent image together. Take some inspiration from artstation. Aim high but keep real expectations. There's definitely money to be made in combining gaming art with crafting of various kinds. Etsy is saturated but if you can so something interesting you can make money. Add to that income by perhaps filming your process of creation and posting it or maybe tey and get a patrion going. It's hard work but it's a good creative outlet and a job you enjoy is only half a job really right?

I see you're into your gaming more though. Would I be right to think Final Kismet is a Final Fantasy mod? Is it your project?

Honestly I think there's never been a better time to be black in the media. All "ethnic minorities" appear to be being pushed into the forefeont in media now. To an insulting extent. It's kind of contrived tbh because it appears like virtue signaling for the production companies at times. I guess maybe there's no way around that. Either way you shouldn't give up on your stuff. I honestly find it hard to believe that the reason you're not getting a bite is because of the colour of your skin. Don't get me wrong, people can be horrid, whatever their race but there's so much being scrutinised in talks around getting jobs and commisions. It's always disingenuous hugs at the start. You will always experience that. I think you may possibly be taking rejection to personally and doing yourself a disservice but I'm wrong then I say fuck them and do your won thing and make it work another way. Even if it means putting your main project on hold for some time. Earn some money somehow in the meantime in order to later return to your passion project.

If its a FF mod too I imagine there's liscencing issues but I may well be getting ahead of myself there.

Trust me, if there's money to be made nobody cares what colour you are or whether you have male or female chromosomes.

 

[catflowers]

\

Well that took a turn.

You started out well but then went full u turn essentially.

Black male or female, you can be in gaming. I am certain of this. If you're fond of game art you can also go into that. Although it's a saturated market there are options. Especially if you're able to put a decent image together. Take some inspiration from artstation. Aim high but keep real expectations. There's definitely money to be made in combining gaming art with crafting of various kinds. Etsy is saturated but if you can so something interesting you can make money. Add to that income by perhaps filming your process of creation and posting it or maybe tey and get a patrion going. It's hard work but it's a good creative outlet and a job you enjoy is only half a job really right?

I see you're into your gaming more though. Would I be right to think Final Kismet is a Final Fantasy mod? Is it your project?

Honestly I think there's never been a better time to be black in the media. All "ethnic minorities" appear to be being pushed into the forefeont in media now. To an insulting extent. It's kind of contrived tbh because it appears like virtue signaling for the production companies at times. I guess maybe there's no way around that. Either way you shouldn't give up on your stuff. I honestly find it hard to believe that the reason you're not getting a bite is because of the colour of your skin. Don't get me wrong, people can be horrid, whatever their race but there's so much being scrutinised in talks around getting jobs and commisions. It's always disingenuous hugs at the start. You will always experience that. I think you may possibly be taking rejection to personally and doing yourself a disservice but I'm wrong then I say fuck them and do your won thing and make it work another way. Even if it means putting your main project on hold for some time. Earn some money somehow in the meantime in order to later return to your passion project.

If its a FF mod too I imagine there's liscencing issues but I may well be getting ahead of myself there.

Trust me, if there's money to be made nobody cares what colour you are or whether you have male or female chromosomes.

in america nobody cares about each other except money it's the truth

 

[brokensea]

I know some black owned comic and video game creators who are doing it on their own. You just gotta find the right people and reach out to some other creators and let them know your struggles. A lot of people are happy to offer advice and help. It's not easy and I'm sorry you have to deal with that

 

[virgilwalks]

\

in america nobody cares about each other except money it's the truth

as an American who does care for others and knows many other Americans who care for others this upsets me. greed and selfishness are not uniquely American flaws. Money / having a place to call home / food to eat /warm clothes in winter - are not uniquely American needs

A lack of love and empathy and compassion and friendship - a global problem. lack of inclusion and diversity is not limited to the Western Hemisphere c'mon let's be honest but compassionate - racism and classism and ageism…. discrimination by gender identity or orientation ….these are problems globally.

Except for Ireland - name one country with an openly LGBT President or Prime Minister. name one country in the EU that's had a black president or PM. America has a black female VP right now.

 

[Cathy Ames]

Honestly I think there's never been a better time to be black in the media. All "ethnic minorities" appear to be being pushed into the forefeont in media now. To an insulting extent. It's kind of contrived tbh because it appears like virtue signaling for the production companies at times. I guess maybe there's no way around that. Either way you shouldn't give up on your stuff. I honestly find it hard to believe that the reason you're not getting a bite is because of the colour of your skin.

Certainly no one is ever going to admit to it, but I think it is entirely possible. HOWEVER, I am wondering if there might be grants and funding opportunities targeted at minority demographics. I have seen things like this happening in other fields, and the company I work for has gotten special consideration for being a true small business and minority owned.

 

[Raskolnikov's Axe]

Final Kismet


what goes on behind the scenes is that what you cannot see.
No one funds when they find out.
i've had applications and intakes that went perfectly through first and second communication (emails), but when it times to hop on zoom meeting, or phone call, 2 common happens
-ghosts for ~2/month, return saying not proceeding
-suddenly changes from good to not proceeding, no reason given.

this has been recurring, particularly with western studios and publishers.
It's why I no longer can do phone calls. Just the sound of my voice and they know. i started to hate my voice too; so much that i went mute for a long while. even nowadays i dont talk much still, i'm not too crazy over my voice. i dont even talk as a typically black man, or have a strong 'black accent'. but enough one would catch on.
It's happened through last year and this year as well. I was too poor to be able to save the side; it was either not or starve to death, miss rent, al that and thus i became homeless trying to do so.

I've also had particularly in the west say that FK was basically shit, did not meet the 'standards'. and that characters designs where 'concerning (this was the case with O.Tribal, Freyja and Ariya).of course there would be black forefront characters, but tis not the only and of course many other elements.
I was gonna give up then, if my last try ended the same, but i didn't, i was only accepted when I met and meeting with Mania Carta/Sandstorm, the demography makes a difference; I cannot work with the west at those 4 incidents.

Damn, I'm sorry. I had no idea what goes one in the finance departments of the industry. That must be disheartening.

 

[want2dienow]

why would you say that about being black? it is possible to be a game developer and make lots of money and be black
I don't exactly like games but i am sure people will support you if you put yourself out there
At least you are doing something with your life unlike me who is doing jack shit with their life every single day
are you a guy or women? because if you are a black woman then you are actually fucked in the video game industry and i would take the sn

that counts as encouragement? i'm glad i didnt see it initially
no i am a guy.
you think i'm doing something? i spend all day trying to end my life

I see you're into your gaming more though. Would I be right to think Final Kismet is a Final Fantasy mod? Is it your project?

If its a FF mod too I imagine there's liscencing issues but I may well be getting ahead of myself there.

you absolutely wrong.
yep that's right, the two years i spent constructing FK's story world, lore character from the ground up is not my own, no its Final Fantasy; using their characters, their worlds, all the documents, the desings, Mania's Cart's work, no those are not Final Kismet, thats Final Fantasy,
the 96 page game design document; 26 page character design document, 16 pages character assets document, 29 page character event document; no thats all a mod just a final fantasy. a mod total needs these documents+

Ariya
Tribal
raian
no this all just final fantasy; nothing's final kismet, just a slug and final fantasy.
you do not know the development history of fk my growth with it and how things have shaped through years.

you'll never understand, i knew i shouldn't have even talked about it, i'll take that last encouragement and take the sn already.
not that anything matters ive giving up on it all anyways so a win for you and him i guess

Damn, I'm sorry. I had no idea what goes one in the finance departments of the industry. That must be disheartening.

there's alot that happens what on the outside cannot see.

 

[Smart No More]

you absolutely wrong.
yep that's right, the two years i spent constructing FK's story world, lore character from the ground up is not my own, no its Final Fantasy; using their characters, their worlds, all the documents, the desings, Mania's Cart's work, no those are not Final Kismet, thats Final Fantasy,
the 96 page game design document; 26 page character design document, 16 pages character assets document, 29 page character event document; no thats all a mod just a final fantasy. a mod total needs these documents+

Ariya
Tribal
raian
no this all just final fantasy; nothing's final kismet, just a slug and final fantasy.
you do not know the development history of fk my growth with it and how things have shaped through years.

you'll never understand, i knew i shouldn't have even talked about it, i'll take that last encouragement and take the sn already.
not that anything matters ive giving up on it all anyways so a win for you and him i guess

WTF, I was asking questions and trying to be encouraging. I of course no nothing of your project and its intricacies which is why I asked. When I spoke if licencing issues I meant it might be an issue for anyone considering backing and financing your project.

I asked out of inteterest and support but if you're going to treat everyone like they're persecuting you, you're shooting yourself in the foot. It's quitw possible that this is what's going against you. I would recommend some lessons on communication.


All this melodrama about "him" and a win for me....you know nobody knows what you're talking about but you keep doing it and then say you don't want to talk about it. You must see this does you no favours. It just makes you appear dramatic and insincere. Personally I suspect you have some trauma you're dealing with and maybe some issues that impact your ability to trust people and communicate with them. On those grounds I can overlook the unprovoked reaction and I'm interested to know more about your project if you want to talk about it. Genuinely. I'm an FF fan so feel free to go into detail if you want to. Just pkease bare with me if I am unaware of things I couldn't know without being told. And just so you know, I don't care what colour your skin is or if you're even an actual slug that's fine too.

 

[want2dienow]

I asked out of inteterest and support but if you're going to treat everyone like they're persecuting you, you're shooting yourself in the foot. It's quitw possible that this is what's going against you. I would recommend some lessons on communication.

You are not everyone. And this is ever more reason to block you immediately. I don't need another one like this. its bad enough im verbally abused on the daily you think i want to come to this place for more of that, in any shape or form?

All this melodrama about "him" and a win for me....you know nobody knows what you're talking about but you keep doing it and then say you don't want to talk about it. You must see this does you no favours. It just makes you appear dramatic and insincere. Personally I suspect you have some trauma you're dealing with and maybe some issues that impact your ability to trust people and communicate with them. On those grounds I can overlook the unprovoked reaction and I'm interested to know more about your project if you want to talk about it. Genuinely. I'm an FF fan so feel free to go into detail if you want to. Just pkease bare with me if I am unaware of things I couldn't know without being told. And just so you know, I don't care what colour your skin is or if you're even an actual slug that's fine too.

talk with you, after that? No
there's no point in talking with you anyways.
my pain is not a dramatization, i dont assume your pain or reason for being here don't assume mine.

And I've made it clear who 'him' is; that is Alexander, but i can't use actual names here. so I just stick with saying 'him', also because the name gives me ptsd just in itself. but they didnt bother thinking of that.

 

[Huntfish34]

I have absolutely No idea or clue what any of you are talking about but I wish you Peace in whatever may happen. You are worth it,.

Thoughts and prayers -

 

[Obliviate]

I'm so sorry……. the truth and reality is that we live in a discriminatory racist society and we always will. It doesn't matter how intelligent and amazing an individual is, this bias will always stand and I fear that it's only going to get worse. As an ethnic minority myself I fear for my life let alone getting a job.

 

[Smart No More]

Is there something being lost in translation here? I haven't verbally abused anyone. I may have pointed out some home truths but given your reaction to a post in support of your plight you would be hard pushed to deny that it was warranted.

I thought I was being nice given your first snotty reaction. I tried to let that go in consideration of your issues but it seems you're too lost in them to see past your apparent persecution complex. It's a shame because I see potential in your project but I get the impression you don't know how to take constructive critique. Not that I was critiquing it. I wasn't at all. Just trying to show a supportive interest given that you opened a dialogue on a public forum. I'm genuinely interested in what you created.

I didn't say your project wasn't yours or that it belonged to FF. I just indicated that you may be facing some issues with potential licensing issues when trying to get a studio to invest. They would no doubt consider this. Even if it just because you use their engine. You're right, I know nothing of the work that went into your project. How could I? I didn't assume it doesn't exist though.

And "him" "alexander" or anything else you say has no meaning without context. The problem is you bring it up on a public forum and then moan if anyone asks. The way you bring it up elicits a response so if you don't want to talk about it maybe don't bring it up.

The fact of the matter is there are black game devs. There are black owned studios. Some of them might be worth approaching. They're not hard to find. I just did a quick search. First page of results threw up many results.

I hope you manage to find a way through your issues and some success in your chosen field. A bit of friendly advice would be to try to keep in mind that people you approach won't be as invested in the things you previously poured your time into. I experienced the same in my chosen field. It's just how it is in the creative world. The world in general in fact. Also people will always be nice in their first correspondence and often make it easy for you to think there's a lot of promise. It's disingenuous for sure but it's how it is so don't fall for it. Always assume the job isn't yours until you sign a contract. It's a self preservation rule of thumb.

Best of luck.

 

[want2dienow]

I'm so sorry……. the truth and reality is that we live in a discriminatory racist society and we always will. It doesn't matter how intelligent and amazing an individual is, this bias will always stand and I fear that it's only going to get worse. As an ethnic minority myself I fear for my life let alone getting a job.

this is true.

Is there something being lost in translation here? I haven't verbally abused anyone. I may have pointed out some home truths but given your reaction to a post in support of your plight you would be hard pushed to deny that it was warranted.

I thought I was being nice given your first snotty reaction. I tried to let that go in consideration of your issues but it seems you're too lost in them to see past your apparent persecution complex. It's a shame because I see potential in your project but I get the impression you don't know how to take construcive critique. Not that I was critiquing it. I wasn't at all. Just trying to show a supportive interest given that you opened a dialogue on a public forum.

I didn't say your project wasn't yours or that it belonged to FF. I just indicated that you may be facing some issues with potential licensing issues when trying to get a studio to invest. They would no doubt consider this. Even if it just because you use their engine. You're right, I know nothing of the work that went into your project. How could I? I didn't assume it doesn't exist though.

And "him" "alexander" or anything else you say has no meaning without context. The problem is you bring it up on a public forum and then moan if anyone asks. The way you bring it up elicits a response so if you don't want to talk about it maybe don't bring it up.

The fact of the matter is there are black game devs. There are black owned studios. Some of them might be worth approaching. They're not hard to find. I just did a quick search. First page of results threw up many results.

I hope you manage to find a way through your issues and some success in your chosen field. A bit of friendly advice would be to try to keep in mind that people you approach won't be as invested in the things you previously poured your time into. I experienced the same in my chosen field. It's just how it is in the creative world. The world in general in fact. Also people will aleays be nice in their first correspondence and often make it easy for you to think there's a lot of promise. It's disingenuous for sure but it's how it is so don't fall for it. Always assume the job isn't yours until you sign a contract. It's a self preservation rule of thumb.

Best of luck.

And you're still literally doing it in this passive aggressive tone.
Do yourself and favor and just leave both it and myself alone. I don't assume to know you, don't to me.
You don't like what I post, block me then and move on i shouldn't even have to say that, i dont need you to invalidate the pain that is true to me. or keep trying to prove yourself otherwise. that i'm an insincere dramatic member of this forum and should shut up and take the sn already
sorry if you thought everyone can come here and pour every single detail and context of their pain causing them to be suicidal in the first place; that's not me

When I mention what's bothering me here without 'enough' context its obviously for a reason, its hard for me to open up, and feel comfortable, and over time i had started to feel a bit comfortable talking about, but this, this right here is exactly why i'm never did so.
you're already made your point, it's over.

Lats thing i need is to be fighting and arguing on damn suicide forum on the cusp of ending my own life; while expending what little hope i had and finding a place where could feel safe enough open up and talk about my pain and what causing me to kill myself

 

[Smart No More]

I'm not looking to argue but I do have to correct something if only for the record. I did not and am not implying or suggesting that you should just shut up and drink the SN already. They're words from only your mouth and mind. So, I'm telling you in no uncertain terms that I don't think you should drink the SN. There's no passive aggression. I'm not looking for an argument. I'm honestly trying to be reasonable and understanding. Perhaps it's hard to believe. I can understand that. Most people are ass holes. You think I have an issue with you and don't want to hear my advice. As such I'll leave it at that and again, wish you luck in the efforts you make.

 

[whatevs]

that counts as encouragement? i'm glad i didnt see it initially
no i am a guy.
you think i'm doing something? i spend all day trying to end my life



you absolutely wrong.
yep that's right, the two years i spent constructing FK's story world, lore character from the ground up is not my own, no its Final Fantasy; using their characters, their worlds, all the documents, the desings, Mania's Cart's work, no those are not Final Kismet, thats Final Fantasy,
the 96 page game design document; 26 page character design document, 16 pages character assets document, 29 page character event document; no thats all a mod just a final fantasy. a mod total needs these documents+

Ariya
Tribal
raian
no this all just final fantasy; nothing's final kismet, just a slug and final fantasy.
you do not know the development history of fk my growth with it and how things have shaped through years.

you'll never understand, i knew i shouldn't have even talked about it, i'll take that last encouragement and take the sn already.
not that anything matters ive giving up on it all anyways so a win for you and him i guess


there's alot that happens what on the outside cannot see.

All this talk about that game and you'll probably kys and I will never try it.

I'd try to finish it before that, personally.

 

[want2dienow]

All this talk about that game and you'll probably kys and I will never try it.

I'd try to finish it before that, personally.

I talk about in the past tense, not the present.
Memories are nice, but that's all they are.
-Rikku

 

[whatevs]

I talk about in the past tense, not the present.
Memories are nice, but that's all they are.
-Rikku

Well I'm gonna finish MY game before I end my life, you can count on that. It might be a failure as a product but it will be a success as a personal project. I'm done with unfinished shit. It's too fucking depressing to leave things in ruins, falf constructed.

 

[chloramine]

Is there something being lost in translation here? I haven't verbally abused anyone. I may have pointed out some home truths but given your reaction to a post in support of your plight you would be hard pushed to deny that it was warranted.

I thought I was being nice given your first snotty reaction. I tried to let that go in consideration of your issues but it seems you're too lost in them to see past your apparent persecution complex. It's a shame because I see potential in your project but I get the impression you don't know how to take constructive critique. Not that I was critiquing it. I wasn't at all. Just trying to show a supportive interest given that you opened a dialogue on a public forum. I'm genuinely interested in what you created.

I didn't say your project wasn't yours or that it belonged to FF. I just indicated that you may be facing some issues with potential licensing issues when trying to get a studio to invest. They would no doubt consider this. Even if it just because you use their engine. You're right, I know nothing of the work that went into your project. How could I? I didn't assume it doesn't exist though.

And "him" "alexander" or anything else you say has no meaning without context. The problem is you bring it up on a public forum and then moan if anyone asks. The way you bring it up elicits a response so if you don't want to talk about it maybe don't bring it up.

The fact of the matter is there are black game devs. There are black owned studios. Some of them might be worth approaching. They're not hard to find. I just did a quick search. First page of results threw up many results.

I hope you manage to find a way through your issues and some success in your chosen field. A bit of friendly advice would be to try to keep in mind that people you approach won't be as invested in the things you previously poured your time into. I experienced the same in my chosen field. It's just how it is in the creative world. The world in general in fact. Also people will always be nice in their first correspondence and often make it easy for you to think there's a lot of promise. It's disingenuous for sure but it's how it is so don't fall for it. Always assume the job isn't yours until you sign a contract. It's a self preservation rule of thumb.

Best of luck.

As an outside perspective reading the back and forth, my initial read of your response was that it was dismissive. I get that it probably wasn't your intention and I'm trying to add some clarity by writing this. Op said he's having problems due to racism and provided examples of his experience. Your immediate response was to say why it wasn't racism and how it could actually be a number of different issues. You also implied that racism and misogyny don't exist within the industry which. Is insulting and comes across as ignorant at best. Anyone can do anything in theory, but it's significantly harder when other people are sabotaging you. Again, I get that this may not have been your intent, but you came across as dismissive and borderline hostile towards someone expressing pain over their own experiences. Just because there are black game devs and black owned studios doesn't mean that black people don't face more barriers. Just because you have not personally seen that racism doesn't mean it isn't there.

Final Kismet


what goes on behind the scenes is that what you cannot see.
No one funds when they find out.
i've had applications and intakes that went perfectly through first and second communication (emails), but when it times to hop on zoom meeting, or phone call, 2 common happens
-ghosts for ~2/month, return saying not proceeding
-suddenly changes from good to not proceeding, no reason given.

this has been recurring, particularly with western studios and publishers.
It's why I no longer can do phone calls. Just the sound of my voice and they know. i started to hate my voice too; so much that i went mute for a long while. even nowadays i dont talk much still, i'm not too crazy over my voice. i dont even talk as a typically black man, or have a strong 'black accent'. but enough one would catch on.
It's happened through last year and this year as well. I was too poor to be able to save the side; it was either not or starve to death, miss rent, al that and thus i became homeless trying to do so.

I've also had particularly in the west say that FK was basically shit, did not meet the 'standards'. and that characters designs where 'concerning (this was the case with O.Tribal, Freyja and Ariya).of course there would be black forefront characters, but tis not the only and of course many other elements.
I was gonna give up then, if my last try ended the same, but i didn't, i was only accepted when I met and meeting with Mania Carta/Sandstorm, the demography makes a difference; I cannot work with the west at those 4 incidents.

I'm sorry you've experienced that. Racism sucks and it's not fair (massive understatement but). For what it's worth the fact that you made a game is pretty incredible by itself from my perspective.

 

[Smart No More]

As an outside perspective reading the back and forth, my initial read of your response was that it was dismissive. I get that it probably wasn't your intention and I'm trying to add some clarity by writing this. Op said he's having problems due to racism and provided examples of his experience. Your immediate response was to say why it wasn't racism and how it could actually be a number of different issues. You also implied that racism and misogyny don't exist within the industry which. Is insulting and comes across as ignorant at best. Anyone can do anything in theory, but it's significantly harder when other people are sabotaging you. Again, I get that this may not have been your intent, but you came across as dismissive and borderline hostile towards someone expressing pain over their own experiences. Just because there are black game devs and black owned studios doesn't mean that black people don't face more barriers. Just because you have not personally seen that racism doesn't mean it isn't there.

Well to be clear, I was trying to imply there is actually possibility in that field. In direct response to the statement that it is "impossible". If I came across as dismissive that wasn't exactly my intent. It may be because I was trying to offset the overly bold statement made by OP that it is "impossible". It isn't true. It just isn't. However I'm not ignorant to racisms existence (which I stated in the same post) in all walks of life. Prejudice exits throughout our world. We know this. I was just trying to encourage OP to consider there may be more to this. More that he has control over and give them the ability to see some possibility. My overall response was in encouragement not to give up on his project. Dismissive or not I don't think it warranted the response it got. Particularly when you read the post directly before (which I was defending him against) which actually did dismiss him and suggest that as a black male its not an issue but as a black female it is and if that's the case he "should just drink the SN".

Honestly I feel you may accidentally be attributing someone else's words to me.Perhaps those in the post I quoted? OP essentialyl replied as though it was me who said they "should drink the SN" and it wasn't. I'm wondering if reading that post I quoted has inadvertently attributed those words to me. There were other posts with similar sentiment to mine before I replied. I just tried to add some suggestions and encouragement. My intent was to offer another angle on their (OP's) take and encourage them to reconsider their take on the reasons behind their apparent rejections because truthfully, I don't believe every potential employer/backer decided to turn him down purely because they saw he was black in a video call/zoom chat. If it was one or two sure. And they'd be fools for it. All of them though!? Do you think that's the case? Honestly sometimes you need to hear things in opposition to your views. I'd refer to the term "cruel to be kind" but it wasn't even cruel. I've just reread it a couple of times as I'm entirely open to criticism. I don't want to be insensitive and will take ownership of my words, wrong or right. I guess to some extent I was influenced vy previous observations of, and interaction with this particular poster so the context for my view and approach aren't all here in this thread to be seen. Perhaps that's where the disconnect is. I'm not sure. I'm looking at my post though and feel like you would have to be pretty delicate to take offense at that. Challenge it? Yes maybe. Disagree, sure. I don't consider myself infallible. I did consider my words as I chose them though. Granted many things in text can be read and interpreted in different ways. I urge you to read it back and consider it again.

Don't get me wrong, I did challenge OP's opinion. I'm not denying that. I did so for what I consider good reason and still stand by it. That said, I had no intent to be unjust with him. I don't think my post warranted the response it got and I think I can be seen to have made an effort to be understanding of OP's unwritten potential issues in my replies to him. I'm not going to kid glove someone old enough to be here on a suicide forum. Not ruling out being considerate of course. Just being real. Or at least real as I currently see it.

I think I could accept that perhap the timing of challenging OP's perception could have been better. I can hold my hands up to that. I left things dependant on interpreting my implications of potential where perhaps I could have been more precise. I have a tendency to assume people can pick up on the things I imply through rhetoric. It doesn't serve me well to make that assumption. I could also accept that maybe I'm misreading OP. However that is the perogative of everyone here and we all open ourselves up to that when posting on a public forum. I expressed my annoyance at the initial response and over reaction to my questions of interest. It escalated but I didn't go off as unreasonably as that which I was replying to. In fact I made effort to leave it as amicably as possible. Had you not bought this up I wouldn't have posted any further in the thread other than maybe to agree with @whatevs to say I too think OP should consider finishing his game project before he catches the bus. I decided against out courtesy in not potentially inviting further disagreement.

I think it's necessary to add that I have a lot of experience with elements of racism, cultural difference and general prejudice and can offer my experience based views on it without naivety.

I must point out that I didn't claim misogyny doesn't exist. You really put words in my mouth there. I just challenged the statement that if you're a black male you're set but if you're a black female then you're fucked and "should drink the SN". I'm not sure it's me taking the heat for that one.

I guess ultimately I felt it necessary to dismiss the claim that blanket racism is stopping anyone entering the game industry as a dev or whatever else. So yes, in that respect I was dismissive. As I say, I felt it necessary for two reasons. Reasons I thought were self evident. I think I'm now understanding actually. It was a double barrelled sentiment. One shot at challenging the claim of "it's impossible to be a black developer" and the second to provide a follow up shot of enthusing suggestion. Perhaps the first shot cancelled out the second in some eyes but I felt it necessary to make a path for the second. I certainly didn't say racism doesn't exist or that black people don't face any barriers at all. That would be as wrong as saying no black people can possibly be devs. Both statements would be equally incorrect.

 

[want2dienow]

Well I'm gonna finish MY game before I end my life, you can count on that. It might be a failure as a product but it will be a success as a personal project. I'm done with unfinished shit. It's too fucking depressing to leave things in ruins, falf constructed.

Unnessarcy but not surprised.
Good for you, I'm not counting on nothing don't know what you expected by saying this, here of all sorts.

As an outside perspective reading the back and forth, my initial read of your response was that it was dismissive. I get that it probably wasn't your intention and I'm trying to add some clarity by writing this. Op said he's having problems due to racism and provided examples of his experience. Your immediate response was to say why it wasn't racism and how it could actually be a number of different issues. You also implied that racism and misogyny don't exist within the industry which. Is insulting and comes across as ignorant at best. Anyone can do anything in theory, but it's significantly harder when other people are sabotaging you. Again, I get that this may not have been your intent, but you came across as dismissive and borderline hostile towards someone expressing pain over their own experiences. Just because there are black game devs and black owned studios doesn't mean that black people don't face more barriers. Just because you have not personally seen that racism doesn't mean it isn't there.

I'm sorry you've experienced that. Racism sucks and it's not fair (massive understatement but). For what it's worth the fact that you made a game is pretty incredible by itself from my perspective.

faced alot of barriers and along with pain, FK was what was keeping me alive, until it died. it may have died a while ago and my delusions kept me from seeing it
i had, not have; hence i also spoke of it in the past tense
i no longer have anything to continue; so if that makes me bad oh well;i was bound to be a statstic since being born; just as alex said my motehr should've aborted me knowing i would turn out to be a slug who cant even kill himself

 

[Smart No More]

Have you considered any indy producers or maybe even the retro handheld emulation scene? Arguably a bit easier to make assets for and less expense. I'm thinking maybe if you could use the same story mechanics and characters but 'port' them to a mobile platform you could A) get it made and put out & B) perhaps still see some income out of it & C) get something on your portfolio and gain some acknowledgement. Perhaps, hopefully some further work.

It often seems like people start with passion projects that they poured their hearts into and then had to somehow compromise. It's a bit of a right of passage so to speak. Some of them do really well and one day retuen to their project with loads of backing and get to do it better than they hoped. I missed an obviously not all. It's a competitive world but it does happen. I saw loads of old timers do that later in their carriers. In different creative fields. Worlds a cruel place.

 

[chloramine]

Well to be clear, I was trying to imply there is actually possibility in that field. In direct response to the statement that it is "impossible". If I came across as dismissive that wasn't exactly my intent. It may be because I was trying to offset the overly bold statement made by OP that it is "impossible". It isn't true. It just isn't. However I'm not ignorant to racisms existence (which I stated in the same post) in all walks of life. Prejudice exits throughout our world. We know this. I was just trying to encourage OP to consider there may be more to this. More that he has control over and give them the ability to see some possibility. My overall response was in encouragement not to give up on his project. Dismissive or not I don't think it warranted the response it got. Particularly when you read the post directly before (which I was defending him against) which actually did dismiss him and suggest that as a black male its not an issue but as a black female it is and if that's the case he "should just drink the SN".

Honestly I feel you may accidentally be attributing someone else's words to me.Perhaps those in the post I quoted? OP essentialyl replied as though it was me who said they "should drink the SN" and it wasn't. I'm wondering if reading that post I quoted has inadvertently attributed those words to me. There were other posts with similar sentiment to mine before I replied. I just tried to add some suggestions and encouragement. My intent was to offer another angle on their (OP's) take and encourage them to reconsider their take on the reasons behind their apparent rejections because truthfully, I don't believe every potential employer/backer decided to turn him down purely because they saw he was black in a video call/zoom chat. If it was one or two sure. And they'd be fools for it. All of them though!? Do you think that's the case? Honestly sometimes you need to hear things in opposition to your views. I'd refer to the term "cruel to be kind" but it wasn't even cruel. I've just reread it a couple of times as I'm entirely open to criticism. I don't want to be insensitive and will take ownership of my words, wrong or right. I guess to some extent I was influenced vy previous observations of, and interaction with this particular poster so the context for my view and approach aren't all here in this thread to be seen. Perhaps that's where the disconnect is. I'm not sure. I'm looking at my post though and feel like you would have to be pretty delicate to take offense at that. Challenge it? Yes maybe. Disagree, sure. I don't consider myself infallible. I did consider my words as I chose them though. Granted many things in text can be read and interpreted in different ways. I urge you to read it back and consider it again.

Don't get me wrong, I did challenge OP's opinion. I'm not denying that. I did so for what I consider good reason and still stand by it. That said, I had no intent to be unjust with him. I don't think my post warranted the response it got and I think I can be seen to have made an effort to be understanding of OP's unwritten potential issues in my replies to him. I'm not going to kid glove someone old enough to be here on a suicide forum. Not ruling out being considerate of course. Just being real. Or at least real as I currently see it.

I think I could accept that perhap the timing of challenging OP's perception could have been better. I can hold my hands up to that. I left things dependant on interpreting my implications of potential where perhaps I could have been more precise. I have a tendency to assume people can pick up on the things I imply through rhetoric. It doesn't serve me well to make that assumption. I could also accept that maybe I'm misreading OP. However that is the perogative of everyone here and we all open ourselves up to that when posting on a public forum. I expressed my annoyance at the initial response and over reaction to my questions of interest. It escalated but I didn't go off as unreasonably as that which I was replying to. In fact I made effort to leave it as amicably as possible. Had you not bought this up I wouldn't have posted any further in the thread other than maybe to agree with @whatevs to say I too think OP should consider finishing his game project before he catches the bus. I decided against out courtesy in not potentially inviting further disagreement.

I think it's necessary to add that I have a lot of experience with elements of racism, cultural difference and general prejudice and can offer my experience based views on it without naivety.

I must point out that I didn't claim misogyny doesn't exist. You really put words in my mouth there. I just challenged the statement that if you're a black male you're set but if you're a black female then you're fucked and "should drink the SN". I'm not sure it's me taking the heat for that one.

I guess ultimately I felt it necessary to dismiss the claim that blanket racism is stopping anyone entering the game industry as a dev or whatever else. So yes, in that respect I was dismissive. As I say, I felt it necessary for two reasons. Reasons I thought were self evident. I think I'm now understanding actually. It was a double barrelled sentiment. One shot at challenging the claim of "it's impossible to be a black developer" and the second to provide a follow up shot of enthusing suggestion. Perhaps the first shot cancelled out the second in some eyes but I felt it necessary to make a path for the second. I certainly didn't say racism doesn't exist or that black people don't face any barriers at all. That would be as wrong as saying no black people can possibly be devs. Both statements would be equally incorrect.

I was not attributing the suggestion to drink the sn to you.

Saying that anyone can do a job regardless of race of gender has the implication that it's equal between all races and genders. At least when in response to someone saying they couldn't do it because of racism. I get that was not your intention. I am not trying to say that you think those things don't exist (although I see how my initial statement came off that way and I apologize)- merely that how and where you are saying what you are saying comes across that way.

On whether it's possible in general, while it's possible to do, it doesn't mean that it's possible within specific circumstances. Similarly while I believe it's possible for people to recover from being chronically suicidal I believe it takes certain tools, resources, etc that not everyone will have access to.

I don't know for sure if every single instance of being turned down was racism- I can't know that. I believe it's possible. I wouldn't be surprised by it. The problem wasn't you saying it was possible for someone to be a game dev and black, it was that you did so in a way that dismissed OP's account.

I (believe I) get what you were trying to communicate. That it's possible that things could work out and it might be worth trying. That there might be things OP can do to make it work. I don't disagree with that- I don't think this was necessarily the place for it, but. That's not what I'm trying to touch on here. I just know from personal experience that when it is sexism (I'm white and thus haven't experienced racism), people offering alternative reasons is really frustrating because it's implicitly stating that it's not sexism. We weren't there, it's not fair for us to speculate that OP is misinterpreting his experience given our limited knowledge.

 

[Smart No More]

I was not attributing the suggestion to drink the sn to you.

Saying that anyone can do a job regardless of race of gender has the implication that it's equal between all races and genders. At least when in response to someone saying they couldn't do it because of racism. I get that was not your intention. I am not trying to say that you think those things don't exist (although I see how my initial statement came off that way and I apologize)- merely that how and where you are saying what you are saying comes across that way.

On whether it's possible in general, while it's possible to do, it doesn't mean that it's possible within specific circumstances. Similarly while I believe it's possible for people to recover from being chronically suicidal I believe it takes certain tools, resources, etc that not everyone will have access to.

I don't know for sure if every single instance of being turned down was racism- I can't know that. I believe it's possible. I wouldn't be surprised by it. The problem wasn't you saying it was possible for someone to be a game dev and black, it was that you did so in a way that dismissed OP's account.

I (believe I) get what you were trying to communicate. That it's possible that things could work out and it might be worth trying. That there might be things OP can do to make it work. I don't disagree with that- I don't think this was necessarily the place for it, but. That's not what I'm trying to touch on here. I just know from personal experience that when it is sexism (I'm white and thus haven't experienced racism), people offering alternative reasons is really frustrating because it's implicitly stating that it's not sexism. We weren't there, it's not fair for us to speculate that OP is misinterpreting his experience given our limited knowledge.

You're totally right. There is know way we could know if all those accounts were down to racism. I guess I assumed that goes without saying which perhaps i shouldn't. Not in this case. I have a tendency to assume people will know that I'm cool with being challenged. That opinion is just that and it's somewhat fluid and maleable rather than set in stone. I'm comfortable with it in a way that makes me forget (with the passage of time) that most people aren't like that so they don't expect me or anyone to be like that. Our understanding of others is often based on our understanding of ourselves, so I hold my hands up to that. I was largely fueled by the post I quoted (about how how it could only be true if he were a black female) and I think that added some sharpness to my rhetoric. I also have a knee jerk tendency to challenge extreme statements. I grew up around someone who was often either one extreme or another to my detriment and it ingrained in me a very measured approach to things. So when I see things like "it's impossible" my gut reaction is to challenge it. I can see how that influenced my approach.

 

[want2dienow]

i dont anything to do anything anymore. im just trying to do this right. but im so scared of failing im just sitting here looking at it
i dont have a reason to go on living yet the method in front me will either take me or leave me in this world worse pain than now, i havent taken it yet the pain is excrutating, constant stressing anxineity and headaches feels pointless even talking here as i just sound dramatic and insincere yet everyday i sitll do like a slug ause i no where else to
im trapped this is torture but there no peace just pain every day

i have nothing to calm my nerves to take this