Help Getting others to understand

[borderline-feline]

I don't want to get better. It's not just a matter of it being impossible. If I could press a button that would fix all of my problems, then I wouldn't push it. I don't want to be happy; I want to be completely free of pain. I want to feel nothing.

All of my emotions are incredibly intense to the point that they hurt me, including happiness. For me, happiness is the worst emotion since I know when I'm happy that it's only a matter of minutes before I'm miserable again.

I don't know how to explain these things to other people, but I need to be able to make people understand so that they know that preventing me from catching the bus is only harming me. I need my favorite person to understand so that he'll be willing to give me permission to die.

He thinks that he's failed me because I'm in the worst state he's ever seen me in. I need him to understand that it isn't his fault and that not allowing me to die is the opposite of helping.

 

[hellispink]

I am also in the same boat. I am a monster and I am helpless. Being border is something I can only escape by cutting my throat off

 

[sadlilanteater]

I've had a similarly hard time trying to convince my mother that the only option for me is to CTB. The conclusion I've come to is that, it may be easier to hope they come to understand and forgive me for CTB after I've done it, than try to gain their permission or acceptance while I'm still around, since all the talking seems to do is cause even more stress and heartache for something that's undoubtedly enviable anyway.

 

[FuneralCry]

I just think that it would be really difficult to try and get others to understand as they cannot see life from your point of view and many people don't want to face the fact that for some, suicide is simply the most preferable option and that continuing to exist will just lead to more harm being experienced. The way that I see it, I think that it likely won't achieve much trying to persuade someone else that suicide is the right thing, I think it's quite rare for others to accept someone's decision to die, most people close to that person would selfishly do everything to try and prolong the persons torment.
I would just personally see it as being best to leave a note so those left behind have at least some sort of explanation.

But I really do understand just wishing to cease to exist, under no circumstances could I ever want to stay here, the thing that I view as being the problem is life itself so only death could ever be the solution for me. The thought of permanent nonexistence sounds so incredibly ideal to me, I really envy those who have already left this world.

 

[SwissSuicideLady]

The world will never understand people like us, because they refuse to. As long as depression and other mental illness isn't taken seriously, there will never be an understanding

 

[Heartbroken2022]

I dont know what is your problem and why you feel like that, but at least for me I have been in the same situation for some time. I even thought that I had heart problems due to the strong emotions and the psychological pain.
These strong feelings have been suppressed now and gave their place to complete emptiness. Whatever happens to me, sad or happy thing, I feel absolutely nothing. I doesn't make any difference to me. This is not nice either... At least I dont feel "happy" now either.

So, I dont think your wish to feel nothing will really help you. At least for me, it doesnt help. It just prolongs my depression and makes it permanent.

 

[TraurigerClown]

I understand you and the need to make others understand whats going on.
I can quote my exwife who told me once like i am "pretending" and should stop it at once! Or my long time Therapist who shots at me sometimes cuz im doing no progress.
They´re all giving a fucking shit about us, our feeling and they won´t care! Well, the Caretakers care about you, cuz youre a paycheck and nothing else...!

Im honest, i wish you find a way others and especially your friend can understand whats going on, ill even pray for you in my last days here on earth!

But i will never see anyone understand whats going on with me unless they´re trhough the same shit

 

[Heartbroken2022]

I understand you and the need to make others understand whats going on.
I can quote my exwife who told me once like i am "pretending" and should stop it at once! Or my long time Therapist who shots at me sometimes cuz im doing no progress.
They´re all giving a fucking shit about us, our feeling and they won´t care! Well, the Caretakers care about you, cuz youre a paycheck and nothing else...!

Im honest, i wish you find a way others and especially your friend can understand whats going on, ill even pray for you in my last days here on earth!

But i will never see anyone understand whats going on with me unless they´re trhough the same shit

That is exactly what my ex told to me as well. "Leave this shit, you will never do that. Stop pretending.".
It seems I have not been the only one...

 

[borderline-feline]

The world will never understand people like us, because they refuse to. As long as depression and other mental illness isn't taken seriously, there will never be an understanding

I wanna clarify that my issue isn't about people not understanding mental illness. My favorite person has some of the same mental disorders as me. The difference is that we have different experiences and different levels of value as humans.

He's capable of doing things with his life. I'm just a worthless protoplasm.

I've had a similarly hard time trying to convince my mother that the only option for me is to CTB. The conclusion I've come to is that, it may be easier to hope they come to understand and forgive me for CTB after I've done it, than try to gain their permission or acceptance while I'm still around, since all the talking seems to do is cause even more stress and heartache for something that's undoubtedly enviable anyway.

I hope that that route works for you. I wish I could do it, but if I did something to hurt my favorite person again, then I wouldn't deserve to be allowed to die.

I can't intentionally die without him giving me the okay, because I can't do anything without him.

That is exactly what my ex told to me as well. "Leave this shit, you will never do that. Stop pretending.".
It seems I have not been the only one...

It's a common myth that suicidal people are trying to cry out for help in getting better. There are people who attempt suicide as a cry for help, but those people aren't truly suicidal. The myths that "professionals" spread about suicide have actually gotten me to start looking into the anti-psychiatry movement. After all, what happened to "do no harm"?

I understand you and the need to make others understand whats going on.
I can quote my exwife who told me once like i am "pretending" and should stop it at once! Or my long time Therapist who shots at me sometimes cuz im doing no progress.
They´re all giving a fucking shit about us, our feeling and they won´t care! Well, the Caretakers care about you, cuz youre a paycheck and nothing else...!

Im honest, i wish you find a way others and especially your friend can understand whats going on, ill even pray for you in my last days here on earth!

But i will never see anyone understand whats going on with me unless they´re trhough the same shit

Prayer isn't really my thing, but I appreciate the sentiment.

Unless I can get my favorite person to understand, I won't have permission to die. Without his permission, I don't feel that I have the right to die. I'm still a pathetic insect for making his sister cry because she was afraid of me taking my own life.

I hope you're able to have your last days on your own terms.

I just think that it would be really difficult to try and get others to understand as they cannot see life from your point of view and many people don't want to face the fact that for some, suicide is simply the most preferable option and that continuing to exist will just lead to more harm being experienced. The way that I see it, I think that it likely won't achieve much trying to persuade someone else that suicide is the right thing, I think it's quite rare for others to accept someone's decision to die, most people close to that person would selfishly do everything to try and prolong the persons torment.
I would just personally see it as being best to leave a note so those left behind have at least some sort of explanation.

But I really do understand just wishing to cease to exist, under no circumstances could I ever want to stay here, the thing that I view as being the problem is life itself so only death could ever be the solution for me. The thought of permanent nonexistence sounds so incredibly ideal to me, I really envy those who have already left this world.

Unfortunately, I'll probably never be allowed to ctb. As long as my favorite person won't give me permission, I don't feel that I really have the right to die.

I am also in the same boat. I am a monster and I am helpless. Being border is something I can only escape by cutting my throat off

By "border", I'm guessing you mean that you have borderline personality disorder. I have it as well, and it makes life a nightmare of instability, constantly shifting from one emotion to the next (often too quickly for me to process them) and not knowing where I end and other people begin.

If it means anything, I have some understanding of you. I hope that you're able to escape your pain someday.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I really resonate with what you are saying. I think this is the major difference between the chances of someone getting better or not- whether they actually want to. I just don't think some people can get their head around the fact that other people STILL don't like the prospect of living- EVEN if everything got better.

I suppose it's partly a doubt that everything IS in fact solvable. (I don't think it is- things are only ever going to realistically improve- if that- it's unlikely there will never be things we struggle with again.) The effort we have to put in just to get that far can feel enormous. Plus, if there has been a shift, or there never was much purpose/drive/meaning to someone's life- it's very difficult to feel motivated towards anything. All we can do is try not to feel sad but you can't feel happy constantly! It still doesn't give a person a real reason to go on.

I also understand what you mean about your friend. My Dad is my barrier from CTB. I know I can't do it to him but I'm never going to have his blessing either. Honestly though- if I did- it would mean he would know just how badly I feel- and that would actually be as bad in a way.

I'm sorry you are trapped in this place too. I think there are quite a few of us actually- holding on for the sake of others. Partly why I get so angry when people say 'suicide is selfish.' I mean- it is but some people hold off doing it for decades.

 

[LookingOverTheEdge]

I really feel for you, and for the suffering you're going through. I must admit though, from this thread, and previous posts I've read, I do worry about how you describe yourself in relation to your 'favourite person'. Obviously I don't have much information to go on, but the way you describe this relationship, it just sounds very unhealthy, I'd even say toxic.

I genuinely mean no offence, and it's none of my business. But I'd hazard a guess that this relationship is not making things better for you, and that you're likely in a very vulnerable position as it is. You don't need anyones permission to do anything. Your life is your own.

Anyway, just my opinion, for what little it's worth. I wish you the best

 

[borderline-feline]

I really feel for you, and for the suffering you're going through. I must admit though, from this thread, and previous posts I've read, I do worry about how you describe yourself in relation to your 'favourite person'. Obviously I don't have much information to go on, but the way you describe this relationship, it just sounds very unhealthy, I'd even say toxic.

I genuinely mean no offence, and it's none of my business. But I'd hazard a guess that this relationship is not making things better for you, and that you're likely in a very vulnerable position as it is. You don't need anyones permission to do anything. Your life is your own.

Anyway, just my opinion, for what little it's worth. I wish you the best

I absolutely understand the concern, but I wouldn't say that it's toxic as a relationship. If anything is unhealthy, it's my brain. I have borderline personality disorder, which causes me to have an intense fear of abandonment. I latch onto people and become obsessed. The term "favorite person" is for that kind of scenario. I can't function without him because I don't have a sense of self (also a BPD trait), so I don't even know who the hell I am or what I enjoy. All I know is that I'm dependent on him. People with BPD tend to put one specific person on a pedestal and view them as almost a god. That's what a favorite person is to someone with BPD.

Part of why I use the term "favorite person" when it would be accurate to just call him my boyfriend is that I feel like people would be more inclined to take my situation the wrong way if I just said that my life belongs to my boyfriend. If someone who sees my posts is familiar with BPD, then they'll recognize the use of the term "favorite person" and understand. I don't blame you for reacting the way you did though. A lot of people don't know much about BPD, and the way I talk about my favorite person admittedly does make it sound worse than it is.

He doesn't enable my dependence though, so it's not a toxic relationship. He's my everything. He's my entire world. The idea of hurting him in any way makes me feel like a worthless roach. He's not the first favorite person I've had, but I managed to fuck things up with every prior favorite person. That's why I'm so fucked up. I live in constant fear of the most important person in my life leaving me. I can't handle the possibility of him abandoning me, and I've structured my entire life around him.

Hypothetically, let's say that I use my chosen method: a fentanyl overdose. What happens if I survive? It would mean breaking the promise that I made to my favorite person and having to deal with the fallout. Is it irrational to think that he'd leave me for breaking that promise? Probably. I can't help that I have that fear though. It's not something that I can change.

I've tried getting therapy, but therapy just doesn't work for me. All of my emotions are too intense, and medication can only do so much. I'm completely unstable and want to die, but I've caused enough pain to my favorite person in life, and I don't want to further harm him in death.

My life really isn't my own. I can't end it without his permission. Especially after promising to him that I wouldn't kill myself or self-harm, I'm never going to get that permission.

I really resonate with what you are saying. I think this is the major difference between the chances of someone getting better or not- whether they actually want to. I just don't think some people can get their head around the fact that other people STILL don't like the prospect of living- EVEN if everything got better.

I suppose it's partly a doubt that everything IS in fact solvable. (I don't think it is- things are only ever going to realistically improve- if that- it's unlikely there will never be things we struggle with again.) The effort we have to put in just to get that far can feel enormous. Plus, if there has been a shift, or there never was much purpose/drive/meaning to someone's life- it's very difficult to feel motivated towards anything. All we can do is try not to feel sad but you can't feel happy constantly! It still doesn't give a person a real reason to go on.

I also understand what you mean about your friend. My Dad is my barrier from CTB. I know I can't do it to him but I'm never going to have his blessing either. Honestly though- if I did- it would mean he would know just how badly I feel- and that would actually be as bad in a way.

I'm sorry you are trapped in this place too. I think there are quite a few of us actually- holding on for the sake of others. Partly why I get so angry when people say 'suicide is selfish.' I mean- it is but some people hold off doing it for decades.

I think a lot of people don't understand the emotional instability that I have. I can go from feeling on top of the world to being so violently angry that I have to either break things or self-harm to feeling so alone and afraid that I want to die, and then back to normal all in the course of an hour. The intensity of my emotions combined with how abrupt and quick the mood swings are causes me to fear any good emotion because it just makes the impending negative emotions that much more awful.

Beyond the fact that it's not possible for me to "get better", I would be left with nothing if I did. I don't know who I am, and getting better would force me to confront that even more. I'd rather be in a situation where I don't know where I end and others begin.

I hate that I am the way that I am, but there's no way to change all the things I hate about myself since so many of them are hardwired into my brain.

I hope you'll be able to get rid of your pain without dying with the burden of feeling like you've inflicted pain on others.

 

[ksp]

this is an unreasonable dependency on your favorite person


would you give this person the permission to die?

and if so, what would you do in that case (what would you do after?)
would you find the next 'favorite person'?
would you create a fictional 'favorite person' in your mind?

---

'Unless I can get my favorite person to understand, I won't have permission to die. Without his permission, I don't feel that I have the right to die.'
'if I did something to hurt my favorite person again, then I wouldn't deserve to be allowed to die.'
'I can't intentionally die without him giving me the okay, because I can't do anything without him'

it's unreasonable to expect someone else to understand you, regardless of your opinion about them

'I don't know how to explain these things to other people'
this is the reason why no one in this world would be able to understand your situation and your suffering

you can never explain every action and every feeling that you experienced every minute of your life
some repeated outcomes have accumulated to form overall opinions, forgetting every minute details

most of your experiences have been eliminated from your memory - you only remember their bitter result
these bitter outcomes constitute your own very specific and subjective history - unlike any other

you are not even able to explain why last night sunset was so beautiful, only for a few very precious moments

and you expect someone else to give you permission to take your life ?
you need to be realistic

this is why i believe that people have the right to not to be judged

---

another aspect: your life is your responsibility - and this is a huge responsibility

do you really expect this person to take this additional responsibility, on top of their own responsibility?!

would you be able to take the responsibility of another life - would you be able to handle both of these two huge responsibilities? would you be able to handle the grave mistakes and their consequences you impose on this other person?

if you wouldn't be able to accept the responsibility of another life in your hands, why is it fair for you to expect someone else to take the responsibility of your life into their hands?

you don't have the right to judge anyone else, and you have the responsibility to own your life

---

personal autonomy doesn't mean independence or care-free attitude

it means you have the right and the responsibility to judge yourself

---

i get that you have enormous respect and admiration for your favorite person, but they don't have the obligation or duty to be burdened by your suffering

---

thank you for explaining the correlation between the term 'favorite person' and BPD to me - i don't relate

this aspect of Borderline Personality Disorder is extremely concerning: it implies that you don't have personal autonomy (you don't have a sense of self). and i'm so sorry for your suffering - it must be crushing you

(i just realized that my post doesn't sound too supportive, but i start to understand your pain)

Hypothetically, let's say that I use my chosen method: a fentanyl overdose. What happens if I survive? It would mean breaking the promise that I made to my favorite person and having to deal with the fallout. Is it irrational to think that he'd leave me for breaking that promise? Probably. I can't help that I have that fear though. It's not something that I can change.

i'm sorry for what you're forced to go through (i'm reading your posts chronologically)

my remaining concern for you:

if you were given a guaranteed way to die (example: extreme overdose of fentanyl, or nembutal), would you be able to make this decision for yourself? (without your favorite person)

---

ps. sorry for the initial lecture

 

[stermc]

Hello! I have similar feelings to you. My parents have always tried to help me get better, but I recently put my feelings into words and the thing is: "I wish I wanted to live, but I don't".
i told that to my psychiatrist this exact same phrase in portuguese and he said: "that's sad, but it's also beautiful".
I have tried to explain this feeling to my parents and friends but they don't get it. They think I have to try once again and I will manage to control my illness and build my future just like that. I mean, they are not wrong, I could do it. I just don't want to.
I have been trying to explain these feelings and my view on death to my mom, because she is all I care about, and I can say things are progressing.
It's not like she totally gets it, but she respects me.
So, in my case, communication is key. It takes time and it doesn't work for everyone, but it's a way to go.

Hope everything works out for you.

 

[borderline-feline]

this is a unreasonable dependency on your favorite person


would you give this person the permission to die?

and if so, what would you do in that case (what would you do after?)
would you find the next 'favorite person'?
would you create a fictional 'favorite person' in your mind?

---

it's unreasonable to expect someone else to understand you, regardless of your opinion about them

'I don't know how to explain these things to other people'
this is the reason why no one in this world would be able to understand your situation and your suffering

you can never explain every action and every feeling that you experienced every minute of your life
some repeated outcomes have accumulated to form overall opinions, forgetting every minute details

most of your experiences have been eliminated from your memory - you only remember their bitter result
these bitter outcomes constitute your own very specific and subjective history - unlike any other

you are not even able to explain why last night sunset was so beautiful, only for a few very precious moments

and you expect someone else to give you permission to take your life ?
you need to be realistic

this is why i believe that people have the right to not to be judged

---

another aspect: your life is your responsibility - and this is a huge responsibility

do you really expect this person to take this additional responsibility, on top of their own responsibility?!

would be able to take the responsibility of another life - would be able to handle both of these two huge responsibilities? would you be able to handle the grave mistakes and their consequences you impose on this other person?

if you wouldn't be able to accept the responsibility of another life in your hands, why is it fair for you to expect someone else to take the responsibility of your life into their hands?

you don't have the right to judge anyone else, and you have the responsibility to own your life

---

personal autonomy doesn't mean independence or care-free attitude

it means you have the right and the responsibility to judge yourself

---

i get that you have enormous respect and admiration for your favorite person, but they don't have the obligation or duty to be burdened by your suffering

---

thank you for explaining the correlation between the term 'favorite person' and BPD to me - i don't relate

this aspect of Borderline Personality Disorder is extremely concerning: it implies that you don't have personal autonomy (you don't have a sense of self). and i'm so sorry for your suffering - it must be crushing you

(i just realized that my post doesn't sound too supportive, but i start to understand your pain)


i'm sorry for what you're forced to go through (i'm reading your posts chronologically)


my remaining concern for you:

if you were given a given a guaranteed way to die (example: extreme overdose of fentanyl, or nembutal), would you be able to make this decision for yourself? (without your favorite person)

---

ps. sorry for the initial lecture

I wanna start by responding to a couple of things in the "lecture", as you called it.

I've tried explaining to him that I don't have a future and that I want to die, but he's convinced that because he's mentally ill and has gotten through hardship, that means I must be able to as well.

I'm constantly told that, because I'm mentally ill, I can't possibly know my own limits. I'm constantly told that I'm stronger and more valuable than I actually am.

I wouldn't feel a need to give my favorite person permission to die because I don't own him. If he were to ask, I would tell him that I'll support whatever decision he makes. If he went through with it, then I'd catch the bus as well.

I've known people who have ended their lives, and one of them actually came to me for advice. I told him that it would be wrong for me to tell him either to end his life or not to end his life. I told him that I would support whatever decision he made.

I still respect the decision he made with his life even now, because it was what he thought was best.

I want my favorite person to understand that it would for the best if I died. I'm emotionally stunted with a childlike mental age. I have zero skills and will eventually have to quit my job when I lose transportation.

He knows me in ways that no one else does. He loves me and gives me acceptance. People like that are rare. I'm a misfit in every way imaginable and will never have a career or a place to belong.

The only life I view as worth living for me is a life as his pet, but I also know that he doesn't want that, so I don't have any other options.

I would definitely be able to make the decision if I hadn't made a promise to my favorite person. That's the main reason why I feel I need his permission. In promising that I wouldn't end my life, I signed my life over to him.

He would probably never give me permission though. He already feels guilty because he thinks he's failed me as a boyfriend when he's really the best thing that ever happened to me.

I told him that he was right that the plum is on my back (I can explain that analogy if you're not familiar with Fruits Basket), but I don't believe that there is a plum in the first place.

I believe that I'm worthless. I have zero skills, no identity of my own, and I can't even drive, so I'll be left without employment when I eventually have to quit my job. I'll have to go on disability just so I have insurance. I'm enough of a burden already; I don't wanna feel like a leech.

I want to die, not only to stop being a burden, but to escape the pain of BPD, OCD, AND C-PTSD. I have regular mental breakdowns over my general incompetence and lack of value, and I just want all the pain to go away. Unfortunately, therapy and medication have done nothing to help me.

 

[sincerelysad]

i understand this immensely and it makes me feel intense emotion knowing someone feels the exact same way i do. i just want it all to be over. joy hurts, everything hurts. feeling anything brings me pain. i want to be free from it and no one is capable of understanding why i could possibly feel that way. i hear you.

 

[borderline-feline]

i understand this immensely and it makes me feel intense emotion knowing someone feels the exact same way i do. i just want it all to be over. joy hurts, everything hurts. feeling anything brings me pain. i want to be free from it and no one is capable of understanding why i could possibly feel that way. i hear you.

As much as I hate that you're going through hell, I have to admit that there's a sense of emotional validation to seeing someone understand.

I hope you're able to be free from pain soon.

 

[ksp]

I would definitely be able to make the decision

thank you

I want to die, not only to stop being a burden, but to escape the pain of BPD, OCD, AND C-PTSD. I have regular mental breakdowns over my general incompetence and lack of value, and I just want all the pain to go away. Unfortunately, therapy and medication have done nothing to help me.

you managed to explain your conflicts quite well, and want to say that i'm so sorry for your predicament (and all the others in your situation)

but just saying that i'm sorry for it doesn't help you in any way… (empathy doesn't equate to real help)
i wish i could do something more

 

[borderline-feline]

thank you


you managed to explain your conflicts quite well, and want to say that i'm so sorry for your predicament (and all the others in your situation)

but just saying that i'm sorry for it doesn't help you in any way… (empathy doesn't equate to real help)
i wish i could do something more

At the very least, this proved that I can articulate myself better than I thought. I'm not good at communicating with others, which can result in a lot of misunderstandings.

 

[LookingOverTheEdge]

I hope I didn't cause you any offence with my thoughts. Certainly wasn't my intention. Thank you for sharing and for explaining things as you have. You did a great job putting it across and and I always think it takes a bit of bravery to open up on these things.

I wish I could offer you some meaningful advice that might help. I really hope something could turn and things could improve for you, even just a little

 

[borderline-feline]

I hope I didn't cause you any offence with my thoughts. Certainly wasn't my intention. Thank you for sharing and for explaining things as you have. You did a great job putting it across and and I always think it takes a bit of bravery to open up on these things.

I wish I could offer you some meaningful advice that might help. I really hope something could turn and things could improve for you, even just a little

Oh, I wasn't offended. I find that life is less stressful when you assume ignorance as opposed to malice. I'm used to having to explain things to people who have questions.

 

[LookingOverTheEdge]

Oh, I wasn't offended. I find that life is less stressful when you assume ignorance as opposed to malice. I'm used to having to explain things to people who have questions.

I can assure you, no malice was meant whatsoever. I don't understand something, I ask questions. My thoughts may well have been way off the mark, but they came from a place of genuinely good intent.