Just had an email from a colleague of mine who blocked me on Twitter very soon after I had posted I'd tried to ctb. The email is telling us he hopes we are all safe and cares about our mental health and that we should look after ourselves. He also provides links to sites which supposedly are useful for our mental health. He's also flying up the career ladder because of these kind of projects he is doing which are about supporting others. No joke, biggest hypocrite going and I'm at the end of my tether. It seems like me wanting to ctb is just a big joke to everyone and a means for people to self-promote. I'm so done. Why do cruel people end up doing so well in the world?
a.n.kirillov
velle non discitur
- Nov 17, 2019
- 1,831
Why do cruel people end up doing so well in the world?
That my friend is the age old quarry.
That my friend is the age old quarry.
The Flies in the Market-Place
Flee, my friend, into your solitude! I see you deafened with the noise of the great men, and stung all over with the stings of the little ones. Forest and rock know how to be silent with you. Be like the tree which you love, the broad-branched one — silently and attentively it overhangs the sea.
Where solitude ends, there begins the market-place; and where the market-place begins, there begins also the noise of the great actors, and the buzzing of the poison-flies. In the world even the best things are worthless without those who make a side-show of them: these showmen, the people call great men.
Little do the people understand what is great — that is to say, the creator. But they have a taste for all showmen and actors of great things. Around the creators of new values revolves the world: — invisibly it revolves. But around the actors revolve the people and the glory: such is the course of things. The actor has spirit, but little conscience of the spirit. He always believes in that with which he most strongly inspires belief — in himself!
Tomorrow he has a new belief, and the day after, one still newer. Like the people, he has quick perceptions and fickle moods. To defeat — that means for him: to prove. To drive to frenzy — that means for him: to convince. And blood is to him the best of all arguments. A truth which glides only into refined ears, he calls falsehood and nothing.
He believes only in gods that make a big noise in the world! Full of clattering fools is the market-place, — and the people glory in their great men! These are for them the masters of the hour. But the hour presses them; so they press you. And also from you they want Yes or No. Alas! would you set your chair between Pro and Con?
Do not be jealous of those unyielding and impatient men, you lover of truth! Never yet did truth cling to the arm of the unyielding. On account of those abrupt ones, return into your security: only in the market-place is one assailed by Yes? or No?
Slow is the experience of all deep fountains: long have they to wait until they know what has fallen into their depths. Far away from the market-place and from fame happens all that is great: far away from the market-place and from fame have always dwelt the creators of new values.
Flee, my friend, into your solitude: I see you stung all over by the poisonous flies. Flee to where a rough, strong breeze blows! Flee into your solitude! you have lived too closely to the small and the pitiful. Flee from their invisible vengeance! For you they have nothing but vengeance. No longer raise your arm against them! They are innumerable, and it is not your job to be a flyswatter.
Innumerable are the small and pitiful ones; and rain-drops and weeds have been the ruin of many a proud structure.You are not stone; but already have you become hollow from many drops. You will yet break and burst from the many drops.
I see you exhausted by poisonous flies; I see you bleeding and torn at a hundred spots; and your pride refuses even to be angry. They would have blood from you in all innocence; blood is what bloodless souls crave — and therefore they sting in all Innocence. But you, profound one, you suffer too profoundly even from small wounds; and before you have healed, the same poison-worm crawls over your hand.
You are too proud to kill these gluttons. But take care lest it be your fate to suffer all their poisonous injustice! They buzz around you also with their praise: obtrusiveness is their praise. They want to be close to your skin and your blood.
They flatter you, as one flatters a God or devil; they whimper before you, as before a God or devil; What does it come to! They are flatterers and whimperers, and nothing more. Often, also, do they show themselves to you as friendly ones. But that has always been the prudence of cowards. Yes! cowards are wise! They think much about you with their petty souls — you are always suspect to them! Whatever is much thought about is at last thought suspicious.
They punish you for all your virtues. They pardon you entirely — for your errors. Because you are gentle and of honest character, you say: "Guiltless are they for their small existence." But their petty souls think: "Guilty is every great existence." Even when you are gentle towards them, they still feel themselves despised by you; and they repay your beneficence with secret maleficence. Your silent pride is always counter to their taste; they rejoice if once you are humble enough to be vain. What we recognize in a man, we also irritate in him. Therefore be on your guard against the small ones!
In your presence they feel themselves small, and their baseness gleams and glows against you in invisible vengeance. You did not see how often they became silent when you approached them, and how their energy left them like the smoke of a waning fire? Yes, my friend, you are the bad conscience of your neighbors, for they are unworthy of you. Therefore they hate you, and would rather suck your blood. Your neighbors will always be poisonous flies; what is great in you — that itself must make them more poisonous, and always more fly-like. Flee, my friend, into your solitude — and there, where a rough strong breeze blows. It is not your job to be a flyswatter.
Thus spoke Zarathustra.
Where solitude ends, there begins the market-place; and where the market-place begins, there begins also the noise of the great actors, and the buzzing of the poison-flies. In the world even the best things are worthless without those who make a side-show of them: these showmen, the people call great men.
Little do the people understand what is great — that is to say, the creator. But they have a taste for all showmen and actors of great things. Around the creators of new values revolves the world: — invisibly it revolves. But around the actors revolve the people and the glory: such is the course of things. The actor has spirit, but little conscience of the spirit. He always believes in that with which he most strongly inspires belief — in himself!
Tomorrow he has a new belief, and the day after, one still newer. Like the people, he has quick perceptions and fickle moods. To defeat — that means for him: to prove. To drive to frenzy — that means for him: to convince. And blood is to him the best of all arguments. A truth which glides only into refined ears, he calls falsehood and nothing.
He believes only in gods that make a big noise in the world! Full of clattering fools is the market-place, — and the people glory in their great men! These are for them the masters of the hour. But the hour presses them; so they press you. And also from you they want Yes or No. Alas! would you set your chair between Pro and Con?
Do not be jealous of those unyielding and impatient men, you lover of truth! Never yet did truth cling to the arm of the unyielding. On account of those abrupt ones, return into your security: only in the market-place is one assailed by Yes? or No?
Slow is the experience of all deep fountains: long have they to wait until they know what has fallen into their depths. Far away from the market-place and from fame happens all that is great: far away from the market-place and from fame have always dwelt the creators of new values.
Flee, my friend, into your solitude: I see you stung all over by the poisonous flies. Flee to where a rough, strong breeze blows! Flee into your solitude! you have lived too closely to the small and the pitiful. Flee from their invisible vengeance! For you they have nothing but vengeance. No longer raise your arm against them! They are innumerable, and it is not your job to be a flyswatter.
Innumerable are the small and pitiful ones; and rain-drops and weeds have been the ruin of many a proud structure.You are not stone; but already have you become hollow from many drops. You will yet break and burst from the many drops.
I see you exhausted by poisonous flies; I see you bleeding and torn at a hundred spots; and your pride refuses even to be angry. They would have blood from you in all innocence; blood is what bloodless souls crave — and therefore they sting in all Innocence. But you, profound one, you suffer too profoundly even from small wounds; and before you have healed, the same poison-worm crawls over your hand.
You are too proud to kill these gluttons. But take care lest it be your fate to suffer all their poisonous injustice! They buzz around you also with their praise: obtrusiveness is their praise. They want to be close to your skin and your blood.
They flatter you, as one flatters a God or devil; they whimper before you, as before a God or devil; What does it come to! They are flatterers and whimperers, and nothing more. Often, also, do they show themselves to you as friendly ones. But that has always been the prudence of cowards. Yes! cowards are wise! They think much about you with their petty souls — you are always suspect to them! Whatever is much thought about is at last thought suspicious.
They punish you for all your virtues. They pardon you entirely — for your errors. Because you are gentle and of honest character, you say: "Guiltless are they for their small existence." But their petty souls think: "Guilty is every great existence." Even when you are gentle towards them, they still feel themselves despised by you; and they repay your beneficence with secret maleficence. Your silent pride is always counter to their taste; they rejoice if once you are humble enough to be vain. What we recognize in a man, we also irritate in him. Therefore be on your guard against the small ones!
In your presence they feel themselves small, and their baseness gleams and glows against you in invisible vengeance. You did not see how often they became silent when you approached them, and how their energy left them like the smoke of a waning fire? Yes, my friend, you are the bad conscience of your neighbors, for they are unworthy of you. Therefore they hate you, and would rather suck your blood. Your neighbors will always be poisonous flies; what is great in you — that itself must make them more poisonous, and always more fly-like. Flee, my friend, into your solitude — and there, where a rough strong breeze blows. It is not your job to be a flyswatter.
Thus spoke Zarathustra.
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Thank you for the reply, glad to know I'm not crazy haha. I hope the truth prevails soon. I'm dreading the upcoming mental health day where all the hypocrites together will be posting about staying safe etc and being open about our mental health. I'm an example of the harsh truth of why people shouldn't. Been ostracised by everyone even my own manager isn't responding to emails as to when I can be referred to occupational health. At the same time I've not even been fired either. Probably because they know if they did it would be discrimination yet they are still discriminating against me by denying me occupational health. I'm so angry. If I weren't on unofficial suicide watch by my mum I'd ctb right now. This world is in no way a world I want to live in and I just wish I could ctb.
You may find "game theory" applied specifically to evolution, biology and aggression/psychopathy interesting.
It basically boils down to (at least this is my understanding of it) manipulation and exploitation being beneficial to the propagation of genes to the person partaking in it, but it requires a sizable amount of good actors to be a successful strategy.
It basically boils down to (at least this is my understanding of it) manipulation and exploitation being beneficial to the propagation of genes to the person partaking in it, but it requires a sizable amount of good actors to be a successful strategy.
a.n.kirillov
velle non discitur
- Nov 17, 2019
- 1,831
Yes, it's the lions encouraging the weak antilopes to raise up their hands.
No, you shouldn't show weakness to people out in the world.
What's a mental health day?
No, you shouldn't show weakness to people out in the world.
What's a mental health day?
basically a day on Twitter when everyone just shouts about the importance of being open about our mental health and getting support, and how if you have mental health issues you are equal to everyone else.
sadly with this, it comes from people who are completely base. Their actions never match their words. It seems they use people who have mental health issues and/or are negatively impacted by their society, to boost their own egos and develop their careers. So in-genuine and insulting to folk like myself.
Thank you I'll have a look! Sounds pretty accurate already based on your description alone
I_love_to_bake
Student
- Feb 27, 2020
- 167
A good point you make is that there needs to be a substantial amount of compliant actors with predictable behavior for the psychopath to be able to rise to the top. "American Psycho" is about how psychopathic the top tier business culture is in America. These are the most successful among us, the psychopaths obsessed with themselves. They lord over us and convince us with propoganda that we would be happy too if we follow their lifestyle.
It strikes us as furiously maddening to see these manipulative narcissists not only become so successful but become loved by all. They've convinced the masses that not only are they doing nothing wrong, but that we are weak or inherently "wrong" in some way for not cheating and lying our way to the top like they do.
In my opinion, the path to happiness involves unearthing the truth buried by the mountain of lies built up by the psychopaths manipulating our minds. That truth being, what really makes us happy? Us healthy creatures, we have "normal" needs and desires, but what are they? We have forgotten, it's been so long that we've been under their spell... That is the greatest shame of it all.
I doubt that rampant consumerism is making people happy. But I'm afraid that even if we were to dethrone these people and replace their ideals with new, healthier ones life would still be a horrible ordeal. A less bad one, so a step in the right direction, but I think life is problematic on a deeper level than that.
I really like "American Psycho", btw. ;)
Oh yes I'd love to rant abt this.
This type of people survive by being extremely persistently annoying (pestering others until they get their goal), callous and shameless, and most importantly, behaving as if they had amnesia (never reciprocating something good that was done to them, never thinking through their actions or if they hurt someone, and always contending that they would have gotten their goal met either way - in case you were foolish enough to help them).
Then they're also like water, they shift and turn and mould themselves depending on circumstances. They have no core values or hard lines they wouldn't cross. In short, they display narcissistic traits at a probably sub-clinical level.
This type of people survive by being extremely persistently annoying (pestering others until they get their goal), callous and shameless, and most importantly, behaving as if they had amnesia (never reciprocating something good that was done to them, never thinking through their actions or if they hurt someone, and always contending that they would have gotten their goal met either way - in case you were foolish enough to help them).
Then they're also like water, they shift and turn and mould themselves depending on circumstances. They have no core values or hard lines they wouldn't cross. In short, they display narcissistic traits at a probably sub-clinical level.
you are so right! and the business world loves them too!
I worked once with a guy; everyone at his same level hated him. Just after working a few days with him, you could feel how false he was. Big mouth, poor results.
Apparently we both tried to leave the company at the same time and we both got a well paid position with a competitor. I was honest enough to refuse (not for the money, but the job) without even trying to find a deal with my company. He went straight to the managers and said "look, I have this brilliant chance with a competitor. Either you give me a promotion, or I will leave". Despite being a total incompetent employee, he got promoted well above people older and more skilled than him.
When asked, the managers replied: our company loves people like him.
Sad story, but true.
And that's how many people can reach high level positions in this world: by stepping over others and using other people to get recognized.
Most people are narcissists who live in pure ego. Not all...and all of us have some ego...but most swim in it and its all about them all the time. They are like babies who only care about their dirty diaper, hunger, pain etc and everything they do is to alleviate that...even at your expense. It's depressing but it's a fact and it explains human behavior and all the bad things in the world. "Make ME feel good" even at your expense. Those of us who have empathy and can see and feel outside selfishness suffer a lot because it is painful and hard to see the world and people as they are, and to know most people will step on or over you rather than help you.
maru.
Experienced
- Apr 6, 2020
- 226
I have the opposite problem tbh, about this hole thing. I'm think i'm the narcissist you know? Like, i'm a class representative, and because of this whole Covid-19 thing and online classes, i'm putting a lot of effort into it, and i'm getting recognition from classmates, compliments, etc. My entire life i've tried pleasing everyone at any cost, and i've always loved to be recognized for it, complimented, if feels good, you know?
The thing is, this raises questions for me, is every good deed i've ever done something out of personal interest? Was it ever legit?
And that raises more questions, isn't good and evil just something we made up? Look at nature for example, these concepts are non existent.
idk tbh, i just know i'm a narcissistical fuck, but what i get for being like this is where most of my highs come from, and for someone with a fucked reward system, you take what you can.
I don't even know what i'm writing anymore, i think what i mean is that i feel disconected from what everyone has written here, cuz i feel like the person everyone here hates, idk.
The thing is, this raises questions for me, is every good deed i've ever done something out of personal interest? Was it ever legit?
And that raises more questions, isn't good and evil just something we made up? Look at nature for example, these concepts are non existent.
idk tbh, i just know i'm a narcissistical fuck, but what i get for being like this is where most of my highs come from, and for someone with a fucked reward system, you take what you can.
I don't even know what i'm writing anymore, i think what i mean is that i feel disconected from what everyone has written here, cuz i feel like the person everyone here hates, idk.
KleinerWolf
Account Wipe.
- Apr 30, 2020
- 2,700
You are not a narcissistic if you enjoy recognition.
Many societies encourage children to do well at a young age.
So it makes sense.
It would be good to have your own reward system though.
Depending on your hobbies or overall goals in life that you might be interested in pursuing.
For me personally, I find it boring to follow what others do.
Unless it's what my heart wants.
I hope this makes sense and somewhat relatable to you.
There's a definitely a fine line between keeping to your own business, pursuing your own career
vs
stepping on others as an evil "opportunitist"
I'm not surprised a portion of the society does that, thats just how they are,
we don't live in a perfect world,
in fact it's far from that.
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maru.
Experienced
- Apr 6, 2020
- 226
It's not just the enjoying recognition aspect tho.
In every social circle of mine i'm the "kind guy that gets along with everyone" stereotype.
Obviously, being like that, i get a lot of, idk, positive feedback? Something like that.
I can't help but feel fake, like, i'm playing a character at all time, but i don't even know if being genuine even is a thing, or if it is, if it isn't overrated, idk.
Also, i know a different reward system would be nice, but i think i've fucked my dopamine receptors beyond repair haha, and everything is just dull to me.
Old hobbies are empty now.
I also have no more goals in life, haven't for a while.
Perhaps i think too much.
Still, thnx for the reply, you seem nice :D
Tintypographer
I am done as of 4-21-2023. Somewhere I am no more
- Apr 29, 2020
- 471
Wow, I actually can't believe someone said that or tweeted that.
I had an advisor in graduate school.who.said only cream and bastards rise.to.the top. I sadly see jerks jump at opportunities all the time and it sucks.
I had an advisor in graduate school.who.said only cream and bastards rise.to.the top. I sadly see jerks jump at opportunities all the time and it sucks.
KleinerWolf
Account Wipe.
- Apr 30, 2020
- 2,700
It's not necessarily a bad thing being the person who get along with everyone.
You are most certainly entitled to act whatever style you wish in smaller and bigger circles in life.
I mean, we may have subconsciously been conformed by societies early on,
But feel free to act yourself in mid game. It's truly liberating.
It's not a large issue but you'll figure it out.
It's no problem.
itsamadworld
i wanna die somewhere like up there
- Mar 15, 2020
- 410
You and me both....I was raised to please people. Worked my was off to please them....female breaking the glass ceiling, I'm just called a feminist cunt, even if I try to be as nice and kind as possible...who cares!...I won't work so hard anymore, and I hope to just kill myself, and I will still be a cunt.... doesn't matter...people will hate you, cuz people are hateful....not like I ever had kids, yet I slaves for other people's children....yet, I am worked like a dumb beast....cuz people will just never be happy...
It's not necessarily a bad thing being the person who get along with everyone.
You are most certainly entitled to act whatever style you wish in smaller and bigger circles in life.
I mean, we may have subconsciously been conformed by societies early on,
But feel free to act yourself in mid game. It's truly liberating.
It's not a large issue but you'll figure it out.
i absolutely agree. There is nothing wrong with getting along with everyone, do not worry! There is a huge difference between being a people pleaser and someone who is prejudiced towards a person and then publicly acts like they aren't to get ahead in life.
I reckon we all people please to an extent. If we don't, then we get punished by society. I posted this quote in another thread but here it is...
Thomas Stephen Szasz
People may see us as weird or insane for not appreciating the state of current society. We may even be told that we are maladapted. However I personally don't wish to be adapted to a society full of oppression and prejudice. It may be an easier life if I were, but I don't believe my calling in life is to be brainwashed by people who think they are better than others because at the end of the day we are all life source.
NekoNomNom
There is no right to heal the wrong
- May 3, 2020
- 248
I feel you there.
For context:
A little over two years ago, my sister and her boyfriend-at-the-time were on the verge of living out of their car. She could have easily come home, but didn't want to, because *her boyfriend couldn't come with.* (This is important later.) That, and our mother is incredibly abusive. She asks our grandparents if they can move in, to which they say no. I called up my grandparents and after about 30 minutes, managed to convince them to let the both of them stay there.
No thank yous. No appreciation given. Absolutely nothing. Just an attitude of, "well, I'm their granddaughter, so I should be able to live there." Okay. I deal with it.
Fast forward to a few weeks ago, I've just gone through a horrible break up, which is the final nail in the coffin for my suicidal tendencies. My sister finds out, and has the audacity to flat out tell me to "get over it," and threatens to have me committed. Meanwhile, she was willing to live out of a car, just to physically reside with her boyfriend.
I've have since become estranged with my sister, which is awkward because we work together. (Also got her the job AND her previous job. No appreciation there, either.) Hypocritical people who are like that are simply toxic. It's hard to do, but it's best to cut them out, whether temporarily or permanently.
For context:
A little over two years ago, my sister and her boyfriend-at-the-time were on the verge of living out of their car. She could have easily come home, but didn't want to, because *her boyfriend couldn't come with.* (This is important later.) That, and our mother is incredibly abusive. She asks our grandparents if they can move in, to which they say no. I called up my grandparents and after about 30 minutes, managed to convince them to let the both of them stay there.
No thank yous. No appreciation given. Absolutely nothing. Just an attitude of, "well, I'm their granddaughter, so I should be able to live there." Okay. I deal with it.
Fast forward to a few weeks ago, I've just gone through a horrible break up, which is the final nail in the coffin for my suicidal tendencies. My sister finds out, and has the audacity to flat out tell me to "get over it," and threatens to have me committed. Meanwhile, she was willing to live out of a car, just to physically reside with her boyfriend.
I've have since become estranged with my sister, which is awkward because we work together. (Also got her the job AND her previous job. No appreciation there, either.) Hypocritical people who are like that are simply toxic. It's hard to do, but it's best to cut them out, whether temporarily or permanently.
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