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I

iamgood

Member
Feb 4, 2025
20
Hi Guys,

I have recently came across this article. It's a free article, so you can read it.


It seems not all people lost consciousness, although the choking is done properly. One factor could be the circle of willi. Even if the two carotid arteries are completely blocked, vertebral arteries supply blood to the brain through the circle of willi. This could be the reason some people take long time to lose consciousness and in very rare cases, they may not die due to carotid compression but rather due to choking of windpipe during full hanging.

If I misunderstood something, please correct me.
 
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JesiBel

JesiBel

Harpy
Dec 5, 2024
214
This was already discussed here, a few days ago:

Thread 'Hanging is probably very painful'
 
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ramon

ramon

Student
Aug 10, 2024
127
For both @iamgood and @JesiBel , THANKS A MILLION!!!

Though I am not fully set on full suspension (yet), the information you guys are providing is a great starting point for figuring out why other methods like partial suspension or night-night - which I've chosen as "plan B" - don't even work for simple "losing consciense" rehearsals.

Your tips MIGHT make things a bit safer for more than one user in this forum.
 
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TransTaxEvader

TransTaxEvader

March 31st 2025
Feb 22, 2025
63
There were cases of Nazis back during the Nuremberg trials that took 24 minutes to die on the rope.
 
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Worndown

Worndown

Illuminated
Mar 21, 2019
3,333
There were cases of Nazis back during the Nuremberg trials that took 24 minutes to die on the rope.
They used pretty big rope. If the fall was too short, it might not break their neck and just left them suspended by their chin and back of the head. Like a cradle.
It must have applied enough pressure to kill them, eventually.

This is why research, planning and a little practice are key to success. People pass quickly with this method every day.
It is worth the effort to make sure you do it right. Each situation is different with the tie off, height, rope, knot tying and time alone.
Do it well.
 
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JesiBel

JesiBel

Harpy
Dec 5, 2024
214
For both @iamgood and @JesiBel , THANKS A MILLION!!!

Though I am not fully set on full suspension (yet), the information you guys are providing is a great starting point for figuring out why other methods like partial suspension or night-night - which I've chosen as "plan B" - don't even work for simple "losing consciense" rehearsals.

Your tips MIGHT make things a bit safer for more than one user in this forum.
Yes, it is better to read, investigate and compare methods.

If you are interested in studying the method (full suspension hanging), I recommend reading:

Thread 'Evelyn's complete guide on how to hang yourself with both partial and full suspension hanging'

Thread 'Collection of useful tips, tricks and notes on hanging'

Thread 'How to hang yourself'

Thread 'NEW FULL SUSPENSION megathread'

Thread 'Essential guide to hanging (aka making full suspension hanging accessible to everyone)'

These are topics that I saved to myself, because I have chosen it as a method.
 
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I

iamgood

Member
Feb 4, 2025
20
This was already discussed here, a few days ago:
Yes, i already read that. I have also gone through some pages of the attached articles. The author, name starting with - s, is a renowned expert in suicidal hangings. I neither doubt her expertise nor the effectiveness of full suspension hanging. It's a highly lethal method. It's also my method if i don't get shotgun.


Vertebral artery is protected by a bone at regular intervals. So, if you are unlucky, the rope may stay on that bone and may cause delayed unconsciousness and highly unlikely no unconsciousness for a longer period of time. But, there are also numerous articles which says just blocking carotid arteries alone is sufficient to cause death, and we also saw a lot of partial hanging suicides.


Please see this article where both carotids are blocked, but the vertebral artery compensated, although this is a gradual process and may not apply in hanging

Bilateral occlusion of the internal carotid arteries. Presenting symptoms in 74 patients and a prospective study of 34 medically treated patients

 
JesiBel

JesiBel

Harpy
Dec 5, 2024
214
Neurovascular lesions and mechanisms in suicidal hanging: an anatomical, physiological and pathological study

Warning!! Contains forensic photos (Full pdf attached, 545 pages)

-

The common carotid arteries are covered by skin, platysma muscle, deep cervical fascia, sternocleidomastoid muscle and carotid sheath from the level of the cricoid cartilage until their bifurcation at the upper border of the thyroid cartilage. During this part of their course, they rest on the unyielding surfaces of the transverse processes of the fourth, fifth and sixth cervical vertebrae. This anatomical configuration renders the patency of the vessels vulnerable to forces which can compress them against the subjacent vertebral transverse processes and cartilaginous larynx with any force greater than 3.5 to 5 kg causing carotid occlusion with consequent cerebral ischaemia, anoxia and loss of consciousness.The vertebral arteries, on the other hand, are protected from this type of compressive pressure because they ascend through the transverse foramina in the cervical vertebrae, requiring a force of 16.6 kg for occlusion. However, they do not do so through the seventh cervical vertebra, creating a potentially vulnerable locus to compressive force. This site, however, lies below the usual point of suspension in suicidal hangings, tending to negate this vulnerable locus for compression. It is only with the drop in judicial hangings that injuries to the vertebral artery are commonly expected. A point of neurological, rather than anatomical, importance is that the vertebral arteries carry an insufficient supply of blood to the brain (2% of cerebral blood flow) to maintain neuronal viability and integrity in the face of complete bilateral carotid occlusion.

-

Compression of the carotid arteries, on the other hand, results, as has been shown, not only in major damage to these vessels and their accompanying veins, but, in addition, must produce a dramatic element of cerebral ischaemia. This would account for the rapid onset of unconsciousness, i.e. within 11 to 12 seconds. Moreover, the unremitting, unrelieved constrictive force of the ligature on these vessels, if perpetuated and left unchecked, would, it is suggested, lead inevitably to brain death in the ensuing 3 to 4 minutes. (This, of course, does not imply death of the individual as a whole, i.e. somatic death, as different organs die at different rates. Death, therefore, occurs by degrees). Unconsciousness, thus, appears to be the critical factor for it is the state when the victim is unable to save himself or herself. Without unconsciousness survival may occur, but with it, death becomes inevitable. The question then arises – what is the cause of unconsciousness? In physiological terms, carotid artery occlusion induces rapid unconsciousness, i.e. within 11 seconds, resulting in ultimate death. In other words, the sudden and unremitting pressure of the ligature must inevitably result in death. On the other hand, the sudden application of a ligature with consequent vagal nerve compression may produce instantaneous cardiac arrest with cessation of blood flow to the brain and resultant loss of consciousness. This event would produce unconsciousness in less than the time period of 11 seconds of carotid artery occlusion (although the brain continues to survive for several minutes thereafter despite cessation of heart beat).

-

An interesting clinical point made by Polson is that severe obstruction of the carotid arteries, requiring only a tension of about 3 kg (6.6 lb, i.e. slightly more than the weight of the head), will rapidly induce cerebral anoxia and unconsciousness. A simple but interesting calculation follows: 3 ÷ 13.6 = 0.220 mm Hg; 1 kg = 1000 mg. This would therefore be equivalent to a pressure of 220 mm Hg in a narrow tube, i.e. equivalent to severe hypertension.Consciousness is lost within about 10-12 seconds, thus accounting for the failure of suicides to save themselves should they change their minds. It appears that once launched upon suicide by hanging there is no retreat. Of course, in the intervening 10-12 second interval between initiation of pressure and resulting unconsciousness, the self-induced victim of hanging does have sufficient time to make abortive attempts at loosening the ligature.
 

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  • NEUROVASCULAR LESIONS AND MECHANISMS IN SUIC HANGING.pdf
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iamgood

Member
Feb 4, 2025
20
A point of neurological, rather than anatomical, importance is that the vertebral arteries carry an insufficient supply of blood to the brain (2% of cerebral blood flow) to maintain neuronal viability and integrity in the face of complete bilateral carotid occlusion.
I don't know where you got the figure from. According to this highly cited article in a reputed journal. It says-

  • Carotid system (72%): Supplies the anterior circulation, including the MCA (middle cerebral artery), ACA (anterior cerebral artery), and ophthalmic artery.
  • Vertebral-basilar system (28%): Supplies the posterior circulation, including the PCA (posterior cerebral artery) and basilar artery.

Carotid/vertebral distribution was 72%/28% and was not related to age, sex, or brain volume. Total cerebral blood flow (717±123 mL/min) was distributed to each side as follows: middle cerebral artery (MCA), 21%; distal MCA, 6%; anterior cerebral artery (ACA), 12%, distal ACA, 4%; ophthalmic artery, 2%; posterior cerebral artery (PCA), 8%; and 20% to basilar artery. Deviating distributions were observed in subjects with 'fetal' PCA. Blood flow rate in cerebral arteries decreased with increasing age (P<0.05) but not in extracerebral arteries. Mean cerebral perfusion was higher in women (women: 61±8; men: 55±6 mL/min/100 mL, P<0.001). The study describes a new method to outline the flow profile of the cerebral vascular tree, including reference values, and should be used for grading the collateral flow system.


Please feel free to correct me if i am wrong. Thanks
 
Last edited:
R

rozeske

Maybe I am the problem
Dec 2, 2023
3,920
Only a portion of your body's weight is enough to cut off all the blood circulation to the brain. All it takes is your body's weight, gravity, a good anchor point and uninterrupted time. Here is an explanation of full suspension and the process of what it does to the body from a forensic expert.
 
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JesiBel

JesiBel

Harpy
Dec 5, 2024
214
I don't know where you got the figure from. According to this highly cited article in a reputed journal. It says-

  • Carotid system (72%): Supplies the anterior circulation, including the MCA (middle cerebral artery), ACA (anterior cerebral artery), and ophthalmic artery.
  • Vertebral-basilar system (28%): Supplies the posterior circulation, including the PCA (posterior cerebral artery) and basilar artery.

Carotid/vertebral distribution was 72%/28% and was not related to age, sex, or brain volume. Total cerebral blood flow (717±123 mL/min) was distributed to each side as follows: middle cerebral artery (MCA), 21%; distal MCA, 6%; anterior cerebral artery (ACA), 12%, distal ACA, 4%; ophthalmic artery, 2%; posterior cerebral artery (PCA), 8%; and 20% to basilar artery. Deviating distributions were observed in subjects with 'fetal' PCA. Blood flow rate in cerebral arteries decreased with increasing age (P<0.05) but not in extracerebral arteries. Mean cerebral perfusion was higher in women (women: 61±8; men: 55±6 mL/min/100 mL, P<0.001). The study describes a new method to outline the flow profile of the cerebral vascular tree, including reference values, and should be used for grading the collateral flow system.


Please feel free to correct me if i am wrong. Thanks
A living patient, whose body can adapt over time, is not the same as a person who commits suicide in a way that is traumatic/violent for the body (hanging).

Your article says it: "Patients with cerebral vascular disease", "Important for treatment decisions and for determining outcome of ischemic stroke"

This is NOT suicide.

More information but about diseases and blood supply:

Inadequate blood flow in a single brain artery can often be compensated for by an efficient collateral system, particularly between the carotid and vertebral arteries via anastomoses at the circle of Willis and, to a lesser extent, between major arteries supplying the cerebral hemispheres. However, normal variations in the circle of Willis and in the caliber of various collateral vessels, atherosclerosis, and other acquired arterial lesions can interfere with collateral flow, increasing the chance that blockage of one artery will cause brain ischemia.


------

And that low percentage makes you think it can keep a person alive? Neurons are very sensitive to lack of oxygen, with that little irrigation you would end up dying anyway. I didn't find any article where a person was 'saved' thanks to the "circle of Willis" in hanging suicide.

Blockage of the carotid arteries is certain death. Without being interrupted and doing the procedure correctly; for this purpose, self-tightening knots are used.. etc.
 

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  • Distributions of lesions in Hanging Suicide Brains.pdf
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Gustav Hartmann

Gustav Hartmann

Paragon
Aug 28, 2021
906
Maybe some statistics mitigate the fear to not passing out quickly. Interestingly these test were done with young males with probably good health conditions and not calcified areries.
 

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  • Rossen 1943.pdf
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  • Experimental arrest.pdf
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