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sserafim

sserafim

the darker the night, the brighter the stars
Sep 13, 2023
7,421
teaching people to be nice to each other is too much work
Huh? I don't understand what you mean. You can only experience pain and suffering because you were born. If you were never born, you would never have to suffer. Seems pretty logical to me…
 
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Homo erectus

Homo erectus

Mage
Mar 7, 2023
560
I just watched this film. It seems some people's quite knowingly induce suffering. The factory pigs spend whole life giving more births without choice only to see their offspring suffer nearby and all of them are finally killed by a known cruel method of CO2 gassing. Maybe it's a ritual procedure of sacrifice to keep some people rich, healthy and powerful.

 
SpiritualDeath

SpiritualDeath

I return to the raiding shadows of death.
Sep 9, 2023
211
I've been engaging in debates on this issue (and trying to get used to the ridicules, vitriols and the "why don't you kys" type of "arguments") for a while now and I still find the stances of pro-lifers and natalists bizarre. They don't even agree that suffering is something worth reducing and preventing. Some of them think that a life full of suffering is better than no life and if they could choose they would choose to endure torture to have a life over not being born at all. Pro-life consequentialists don't care about the lack of consent at all because they think they're doing something good by bringing a child into existence. I've never found any of their arguments convincing enough for me to admit that I'm wrong.

I don't know how to feel actually. Can't say proud but I'm pretty confident that my beliefs are a fully reasonable response to this predicament called "life" that we're in (just that constantly receiving trolls, name-calling and ridicules does feel very bad...)
 
F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
7,596
Overall, I'm more thankful than proud. At one point, I think it would have been entirely possible for me to have wanted children. I think it would have been a mistake for them and me though.

I couldn't bear to see them unhappy and, I'm pretty sure they would be. They'd have got half my ugly, pessimistic, artistic genes for a start. So, they'd likely be fairly ugly, pessimistic and arty. All bad traits in this world. Coupled with an upbringing that puts emphasis on being polite and respectful of others (Similar to my upbringing,) which means they'd likely get trampled all over. And, I'd be have to be hiding how unhappy I am all the time to try and prevent them realising. I think we all dodged a bullet there!

In terms of smug, pride. To an extent- honestly- yes. I'm glad from an environmental point of view that I haven't brought another consumer/polluter here. Morally wise- yes too. I put so much value on choice. Being antinatalist is very much aligned with being pro-choice I think. Having children is making the most colossal choice there is for another being. Worse- knowing that once it's here, it's a complete crapshoot as to whether it will want to be and even worse- it will be an enormous struggle for it to leave. That doesn't seem like a very fair thing to do to something you supposedly 'love'.

Of course- I've come to that cynical view via my own negative experience of life. But that's my point really- for me in particular- what are the chances my child would be an optimist?!! With my genes and my upbringing of it? So for me and them- definitely the best outcome I think. For everyone else though- that's up to them. I just hope for their child's sake they were right!
 
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Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
8,553
I wouldn't call my self a strict anti-natalist but anyway I never felt like I really wanted to procreate / have children. One of my biggest fears always was that if I produced children and later I cannot provide them a good life /education and and and ... that would be the worst thing to happen to them.

Not having children was definitely one of my best decisions I ever made in my life.
 
Bianka

Bianka

No longer human
Jan 16, 2024
178
No. It saddens me to realize existence is like this. But parents have to be responsible for their child. While they can ensure happiness and comfort they can't do anything about the inevitable suffering. I do find lack of suffering as inherently good while lack of happiness as not in the face of non-existence
 
derpyderpins

derpyderpins

Misery Minimization Activist
Sep 19, 2023
232
For the anti-natalists on here: are you proud of being one? Personally I'm neither proud nor ashamed of being one, I think that anti-natalism is the only logical philosophy (to reduce suffering).
I'd say I'm not strictly anti-natalist, but I lean that way. I think people need to think a lot harder before deciding to have children. Are you ready to devote most of your life to raising them? Can you provide so they aren't forced into being a wage slave if that isn't something they want to do? Will you have hard conversations with them?

I see the logic in reducing suffering, but there is good in life. I think you should be able to look at your child and tell* them you considered all of this, and thought that with your situation you could give them a life that was more good than bad.

So, with that all said, I wouldn't say I'm proud of that stance, but I'm proud I don't just blindly believe kids = good, if that counts for anything.
 
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TheGoodGuy

TheGoodGuy

Visionary
Aug 27, 2018
2,908
I am not proud of it if anything it´s annoying around normies especially at my age when everyone is getting children and it´s expected of you to congratulate them but as an anti-natalist I won´t there is nothing to congratulate them for if anything they deserve a scolding for the selfishness of bringing another person into this world without being able to consent for it, but of course I will stay quiet because if I ever told people this they would never talk to me again but it´s just the objective truth.