Experiences with spiritual healing?

[symphony]

Sorry if the post is kinda long... just skim to the bottom if you want to hear my question but not the context.

I recently had my last session with a therapist I've worked with for a few months. I've been at my lowest throughout that period and he's seen it all. He's seen my breakdowns in real time and heard all my aching descriptions of my pain and need to escape. He's a great therapist, too. He's brilliant, highly empathetic, and has a lot of insight. He has an incredible amount of education and experience in psychology.

He's also highly religious (Christian), and I've known this. It's only tangentially come into our interactions once or twice. He views spirituality as one of several necessary aspects to make up a whole healthy person. I was raised Christian but am now an atheist.

I had a hard day and was very honest in our session. He got very emotional at the end and was crying as he spoke, clearly out of deeply-felt passion and empathy. I agreed to let him share his honest, personal opinion.

He told me that although I'm trapped in darkness, he believes there's more to be experienced in my life, I just need to find my way into the light. He said all the medication and therapy in the world won't be enough to help me do that (as evidence would suggest...). He believes the answer for me may be spiritual. He (mostly) didn't appeal to any specific religion and just vaguely referred to "spirituality" in general terms. He appealed to the fact that I seem desperate and pretty much willing to consider anything, and maybe this isn't a route I've fully explored. He says he's "seen miracles" in the sense of people finding relief from suffering in God after failing to find it anywhere else.

And honestly? I am desperate enough to wonder if maybe his idea here has some merit.

So I guess I'm asking if anyone here has had experiences with finding healing (or not) in spirituality, or Christianity in particular (or anything else, really), especially for people who were previously nonbelievers and found hope and recovery after converting.

 

[greencondo]

If you mean spiritual as in: affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
Yes, often it takes people to find out what is really bothering them. The brain is really good at finding something else to put the focus on, something easy and in our face to react to. ..when really its something deeper within our thought process and environment. Being trapped in a certain thought process is powerful and often blinding.

If you mean religion, no. Not for me. I was raised in that off an on and have long walked away from it
I don't think there is a god out there waiting to heal anyone who says and does just the right thing.
I think certain aspects of religion (Christianity, Buddhism, what have you) can help some people with skills and find a new way to look at their life, feel like they have purpose and feel supported, etc. but its that new perspective and brain pattern thet's helping then... its not an actual god healing you..IMHO.

In either case, with self work and self mindfulness, things might always be a struggle but the load becomes more bearable an the road more manageable.

My personal opinion on regions is that its often exploits peoples desire for belonging, purpose and wanting to matter, our struggles with mortality etc. Again, I don't think there is a god up there picking and choosing who gets mental or physical aliments, or misfortune and who gets healed.

 

[symphony]

If you mean spiritual as in: affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
Yes, often it takes people to find out what is really bothering them. The brain is really good at finding something else to put the focus on, something easy and in our face to react to. ..when really its something deeper within our thought process and environment. Being trapped in a certain thought process is powerful and often blinding.

If you mean religion, no. Not for me. I was raised in that off an on and have long walked away from it
I don't think there is a god out there waiting to heal anyone who says and does just the right thing.
I think certain aspects of religion (Christianity, Buddhism, what have you) can help some people with skills and find a new way to look at their life, feel like they have purpose and feel supported, etc. but its that new perspective and brain pattern thet's helping then... its not an actual god healing you..IMHO.

In either case, with self work and self mindfulness, things might always be a struggle but the load becomes more bearable an the road more manageable.

My personal opinion on regions is that its often exploits peoples desire for belonging, purpose and wanting to matter, etc. Again, I don't think there is a god up there picking and choosing who gets mental or physical aliments, or misfortune and who gets healed.

Thanks for your reply. Regarding my definition of "spiritual", I left that intentionally vague so it could apply to either scenario you mentioned and thus open up the conversation more broadly.

 

[greencondo]

Thanks for your reply. Regarding my definition of "spiritual", I left that intentionally vague so it could apply to either scenario you mentioned and thus open up the conversation more broadly.

Sure thing

I was talking from my open mindedness side.

As a whole I think religion (like other things/situations) is packed full of predatory, opportunistic, self serving, self important/narcissistic behavior and mind frames.

 

[fox_wannabe]

I was a hardcore atheist and later were dwelling in vague spirituality (meditation, mantras) and It did not help me. I am not follower of god (anything on astral plane can act or assume appearance of god).

Having things to do in college and people to talk with made my life better than spirituality ever could. BUT if you join like a church where you can meet people and talk with them absolutely do so If you want (if they are not a cult, I beg you be careful!).

Hardcore spirituality does not bring happiness, you might ask questions and just seek answers but It is the path that might as well be done in next life time so do not bother, there is no reward there I feel.

(You can start reading from here)
Unless you want to do like soft spirituality, like working with energy, tai chi, balancing emotions, transmuting emotions. I didn't have to do them but they work (I think lol ). These really help people. Just please don't do any magick or summoning. Also there is a lot of scam out there. Rule of thumb is that you should not pay anybody. Go ask on subreddits that deals with that stuff.

Spirituality is a deep rabbithole because It can be easy and nice but It can end up in metaphysics and conspiracies and some people really went crazy.

 

[symphony]

I was a hardcore atheist and later were dwelling in vague spirituality (meditation, mantras) and It did not help me. I am not follower of god (anything on astral plane can act or assume appearance of god).

Having things to do in college and people to talk with made my life better than spirituality ever could. BUT if you join like a church where you can meet people and talk with them absolutely do so If you want (if they are not a cult, I beg you be careful!).

Hardcore spirituality does not bring happiness, you might ask questions and just seek answers but It is the path that might as well be done in next life time so do not bother, there is no reward there I feel.

(You can start reading from here)
Unless you want to do like soft spirituality, like working with energy, tai chi, balancing emotions, transmuting emotions. I didn't have to do them but they work (I think lol ). These really help people. Just please don't do any magick or summoning. Also there is a lot of scam out there. Rule of thumb is that you should not pay anybody. Go ask on subreddits that deals with that stuff.

Spirituality is a deep rabbithole because It can be easy and nice but It can end up in metaphysics and conspiracies and some people really went crazy.

Thanks for sharing your experience!

 

[BreakingTheHabit]

I've never delved in to religion but the past couple of years I've practiced some Buddhist activities mainly in terms of meditation and mindfulness. I found that it helped when I first started meditating, but I eventually lost any benefit from it after a couple of months; I'm not sure why. I think it's because I needed more immediate relief while meditation is a long-term commitment.

From the books I've read, there are definitely some key ideas that will stay with me that made me a better person. I still don't believe any of the religious parts but some of the psychological things do make sense to me. I'm glad that I learned from it for a bit, however, I don't see myself meditating again.

My suggestion would be to look into whatever you're interested in, take whatever's useful to you, and discard anything else. Also, realize what you actually need. For example if you're lonely, a religious or spirituality group can fill that void but you can also fill it with regular friends. That way, you avoid any slippery slopes from peer pressure in those types of groups. Sorry if I seem biased towards the end here. My ex got sucked into a spirituality healing group where she paid a lot of time and money for some useless certificate.

 

[symphony]

I've never delved in to religion but the past couple of years I've practiced some Buddhist activities mainly in terms of meditation and mindfulness. I found that it helped when I first started meditating, but I eventually lost any benefit from it after a couple of months; I'm not sure why. I think it's because I needed more immediate relief while meditation is a long-term commitment.

From the books I've read, there are definitely some key ideas that will stay with me that made me a better person. I still don't believe any of the religious parts but some of the psychological things do make sense to me. I'm glad that I learned from it for a bit, however, I don't see myself meditating again.

My suggestion would be to look into whatever you're interested in, take whatever's useful to you, and discard anything else. Also, realize what you actually need. For example if you're lonely, a religious or spirituality group can fill that void but you can also fill it with regular friends. That way, you avoid any slippery slopes from peer pressure in those types of groups. Sorry if I seem biased towards the end here. My ex got sucked into a spirituality healing group where she paid a lot of time and money for some useless certificate.

Yeah. I'm skeptical too. Religion is an area where vulnerable people like myself can so easily be taken advantage of. But thank you for sharing your experience.

 

[omoidarui]

He appealed to the fact that I seem desperate and pretty much willing to consider anything, and maybe this isn't a route I've fully explored. He says he's "seen miracles" in the sense of people finding relief from suffering in God after failing to find it anywhere else.

And honestly? I am desperate enough to wonder if maybe his idea here has some merit.

For some reason, his "appealing to the fact that you were desperate" and good as saying there's no other options left except his own, personal belief in God sounds slightly coercive, like saying "all the medication and therapy in the world won't be enough to help you"; what qualifies him to conclusively say there's no medicine that can help you unless you literally went and tried them all? I did admittedly feel like that for a time because I was trialling medication in rotation for chronic pain, it was a long process but my GP eventually found something that was able to bring my symptoms under control (albeit not eliminating them).

I think many of the benefits people have experienced by alternative medicine can be attributed to placebo; there's a lot of evidence to suggest that if someone believes taking or engaging with something will do them well then it often does, and because we're all different we'll naturally gravitate toward and associate "healing" with different things. I saw two spiritual healers and they were a waste of time for the symptoms I was experiencing, but I'm not disputing that it might help someone else if they were more "receptive" than I perhaps was to it.

So I guess I'm asking if anyone here has had experiences with finding healing (or not) in spirituality, or Christianity in particular (or anything else, really), especially for people who were previously nonbelievers and found hope and recovery after converting.

You might be interested in Brian Weiss' work. He specialises in past life regression. He was never originally a believer (he's a psychiatrist, and approached his work from a purely scientific angle at first), but converted after experiences witnessed during his practice. Not sure that this is relevant to what you meant, but he falls under "nonbeliever who converted", and has written a lot about how he's helped patients with chronic physical and mental health issues in this way.

 

[symphony]

For some reason, his "appealing to the fact that you were desperate" and good as saying there's no other options left except his own, personal belief in God sounds slightly coercive

Kinda agreed... I recognize that I'm in a vulnerable position and if he really was trying to take advantage of that it's a total red flag. Even so, that doesn't necessarily mean what he's saying is wrong.

You might be interested in Brian Weiss' work. He specialises in past life regression. He was never originally a believer (he's a psychiatrist, and approached his work from a purely scientific angle at first), but converted after experiences witnessed during his practice. Not sure that this is relevant to what you meant, but he falls under "nonbeliever who converted", and has written a lot about how he's helped patients with chronic physical and mental health issues in this way.

Cool, thanks for sharing!

 

[greencondo]

I have to 2nd and 3rd the caution. If we are allowed to talk about the actual therapist here (my previous post was only answering your question on spirituality and healing) Then... my first instinct when I read the interaction with this therapist was noticing that I got a strong ick feeling inside. I agree specially with the idea that someone might want or need more then medications and therapy BUT this whole interaction sat as off with me and my alarms perked up.. You speak very highly of him and obviously look up to him, so a stranger's opinion (me in this case) probably wouldn't matter if you had made up your mind, especially since you didn't ask, but it came up. .Just don't be afraid to get a professional 2nd or even 3rd opinion, if its possible.

Separately, I also agree with Fox_wannabe bringing up cults. They really rely and count on this mind frame.. Watch out for the love bombs and other practices.. They know what people are needing/looking for and take advantage of that.

Read up on manipulation/ coercion and predator/opportunistic practices. It's interesting to learn.
When you are vulnerable like that, you are vulnerable to bad actors (and even some well meaning stupid mistakes)

I do hope you find what you are looking for and I am sorry you are in such a hard way.
I'm also not a good candidate for prescription meds. I've tried them all, (at least all the ones on the US market) I did lot of chasing ideas around hoping for a miracle tho so I get where you are coming from.
I hope you find what helps you get thru the crisis times (without making things worse) and I hope you find the bigger longer term tools and help.

 

[symphony]

I have to 2nd and 3rd the caution. If we are allowed to talk about the actual therapist here (my previous post was only answering your question on spirituality and healing) Then... my first instinct when I read the interaction with this therapist was noticing that I got a strong ick feeling inside. I agree specially with the idea that someone might want or need more then medications and therapy BUT this whole interaction sat as off with me and my alarms perked up.. You speak very highly of him and obviously look up to him, so a stranger's opinion (me in this case) probably wouldn't matter if you had made up your mind, especially since you didn't ask, but it came up. .Just don't be afraid to get a professional 2nd or even 3rd opinion, if its possible.

Separately, I also agree with Fox_wannabe bringing up cults. They really rely and count on this mind frame...that you need them..that they are everything you have searching for, etc. Watch out for the love bombs and other practices..

Read up on manipulation/ coercion and predator/opportunistic practices. It's interesting to learn.
When you are vulnerable like that, you are vulnerable to bad actors (and even some well meaning stupid mistakes)

I do hope you find what you are looking for and I am sorry you are in such a hard way.
I'm also not a good candidate for prescription meds. I've tried them all, (at least all the ones on the US market) I did lot of chasing ideas around hoping for a miracle tho so I get where you are coming from.

No, actually, I appreciate all the feedback in this thread and I very much agree with your approach of skepticism here. I wanted to include the therapist's merits to be "balanced" about this. He's a great psychologist, but that doesn't mean he's necessarily right about everything especially when he's now speaking at the boundary of what actually counts as evidence-based psychotherapy.

As an ex-Christian, I've become familiar with how religious groups can frame ideas in ways that could be called manipulative and especially how they can and do prey on the vulnerable, and here I am absolutely vulnerable.

My initial reaction was very mixed because this came up at the end of an otherwise good session. He introduced the topic by making several points I was already inclined to agree with and then transitioned into offering spirituality as a solution. I was crying because I was so genuinely impacted by what had come up earlier. He seemed emotional and sincere too so whether or not his ideas are good I'm inclined to believe he probably had good intent. So at this point, I was primed to be susceptible to new ideas even as I saw red flags in real time.

But there is at least a chance that he's right, and he's correct that I haven't seriously explored spirituality or religion as a solution to my issues. It does logically follow that there's at least a chance that if I did so, I would see improvement as a result. So I walked away thinking, what's the harm in at least considering it?

So, I don't know, I guess. But thank you again for your input.

 

[greencondo]

Well both things can be true, someone can be smart at their job and say some truth in their statements while also starting to be over the boundaries, unprofessional, promoting bias opinions, etc Well meaning or otherwise.

I can add as someone who walked away from a very religious mind frame and life style:
Much more productive was improving my diet, sleep, the company and habits I kept, knowing what to let go of and what to address and learning about the brain, addressing expectations. relationship skills. having a purpose,.etc...the list goes on. I had to learn some of that on my own, some of it with the help of a therapist and some and delta 8. :) (Also currently trying out supplements like L-theanine,, Ashwagandha) I've never been healed tho.
It's always been a combination of genetics, self work, environment (meaning your circumstances and people around you) and luck.

Again, some things help long term and some are tools to help you just to cope a bit more or just get thru the crisis time (without making it worse), and that's OK. It's minute by minute sometimes.

In summary of the topic::
Spirituality, meaning perusing things outside the material? Mindfulness and sight beyond the physical and beyond just yourself? yes. It's more an energy, emotions, relationships, nature and perspective type things to me (For instance and lack of better diction)
A god deciding who to give a healing miracle to and others not? No, I don't believe that.

*These are my personal opinions and experience to a question that was asked, I am not a Dr of any kind. Your experience may vary differently*

 

[Cathy Ames]

I do think that having a "spiritual experience" is a thing that could help you. I also think that you do NOT need to convert to a particular religion in order to have a spiritual practice. As far as I can tell, you can be any religion at all (or none) and practice Buddhism (for example).