Exit International look like scamers to me

[Alain]

I know this association is very popular. But more I look at what they sell more I find it useless. Like the peacefulhandbook. $80 for a book? On their website it's seems full of super efficient, easy to use and easy to get devices/drugs, but once you read it it's all about Nembutal (that nobody can get easily, if ever you can ever get it) and exit bag method, or other methods that are definitely no peaceful or harmless, like hanging, jumping... well, every methods that everybody already knows.

When you look at it objectively, Exit International shop looks like a bait for rich people to get euthanasia in EU for an expensive price, but will never help anyone else.
Just my opinion of course.

But honestly, did that book ever really help someone CTB easily from home, peacefully, with no suffering ?

 

[Soul]

Perhaps it's more like it's stopped lots of people from doing themselves various kinds of damage by trying things that won't work for suicide.

 

[Alain]

Perhaps it's more like it's stopped lots of people from doing themselves various kinds of damage by trying things that won't work for suicide.

It won't stop anyone to try their own methods as Exit does not give a single method actually available unless you have thousands of dollars to give them first.

 

[deadpixels]

I know this association is very popular. But more I look at what they sell more I find it useless. Like the peacefulhandbook. $80 for a book? On their website it's seems full of super efficient, easy to use and easy to get devices/drugs, but once you read it it's all about Nembutal (that nobody can get easily, if ever you can ever get it) and exit bag method, or other methods that are definitely no peaceful or harmless, like hanging, jumping... well, every methods that everybody already knows.

When you look at it objectively, Exit International shop looks like a bait for rich people to get euthanasia in EU for an expensive price, but will never help anyone else.
Just my opinion of course.

But honestly, did that book ever really help someone CTB easily from home, peacefully, with no suffering ?

Are they the ones behind the PPH? That book shows very little information on everything, it's only good for getting sources to buy N. My greatest issue with that book is that they talk about peaceful and humane deaths but they want to put plastic bags on our heads, tubes here and there on almost every method, even for CO poisoning they created some device and some tubes to put at the nose. It seems to me that the book is written by people who who would never use the methods on themselves and care more about how to kill fast and clean rather than caring for the actual person who is going to die.

Edit: I just realized I had a very outdated version of the PPH (2014). Now I'm reading a newer version and it improved on several aspects.

 

[Quarky00]

But honestly, did that book ever really help someone CTB easily from home, peacefully, with no suffering ?

Where dya think all the SN and "N from A" info came from?
It's not entirely on PPH , but of course it helped many people .

That book shows very little information on everything, it's only good for getting sources to buy N

And sodium azide , and good info on 3/4-drug cocktail , although their availability is questionable , at some places some of the substances may be accessible . It did help people . And you know -- showing source of N is not nothing .... It's big .

Exit does not give a single method actually available unless you have thousands of dollars to give them first.

I don't really get that point . I did not give them "thousands of dollars" , yet I got my SN , so what are you talking about ?

more I look at what they sell more I find it useless. Like the peacefulhandbook.

I wouldn't call it useless , considering it had pushed much of Stan's research , and changed dosage from 15g to 25g (35g) based on reports -- which we wouldn't have known but for PPH and Exit.

 

[FireFox]

Exit international is looks like an rich old peoples sucide club.
I wanted to join as a memebr but the requirments where too much for me
1) Photo ID
2) Play to buy the damm book
3) fee

Nembuttal is illegal in my country the UK and british people have had police vists if they have the drug on them.

 

[deadpixels]

Where dya think all the SN and "N from A" info came from?
It's not entirely on PPH , but of course it helped many people .


And sodium azide , and good info on 3/4-drug cocktail , although their availability is questionable , at some places some of the substances may be accessible . It did help people . And you know -- showing source of N is not nothing .... It's big .


I don't really get that point . I did not give them "thousands of dollars" , yet I got my SN , so what are you talking about ?


I wouldn't call it useless , considering it had pushed much of Stan's research , and changed dosage from 15g to 25g (35g) based on reports -- which we wouldn't have known but for PPH and Exit.

I didn't say that showing the sources of N is nothing, I just said that I didn't find much use for the book besides that. In my experience, the nembutal section in the book is very good but the rest is not worth it. I find much better information on various methods in the megathreads here and the archived versions of ASH and the archived 8chan threads. I also don't understand why there's not a single mention of SN in the book.

And did you just quote me in what someone else has said? :)

Edit: I realized i had an outdated version of the PPH and the newer version was improved, there's a chapter about inorganic salts and the SN method is explained there.

 

[Quarky00]

I didn't find much use for the book besides that.

I did not find use for the book even with that . But it's still useful .

In my experience, the nembutal section in the book is very good but the rest is not worth it.

I disagree ... I disliked the entire book :) I just don't like it.

But it is useful .

And did you just quote me in what someone else has said? :)

I mix and match ;) ... Seriously though , I responded to several positions raised here. Did not pay attention to identity or order I put it. It does look funny.

 

[Didymus]

It's an organisation advocating legalisation of voluntary euthanasia and assisted suicide since 1997.
Why would they wanna advocate that when they could keep "baiting" rich folks into buying their help? Doesn't make sense.

They fight for legalisation worldwide which would make their organisation obsolete.

 

[Fragile]

terribly overpriced? definitely.
a scam? i sincerely doubt it.

first of all, of course they will give N the spotlight, the name of the book is the peaceful pill handbook, and the substance that most resembles a "peaceful pill" is N. it's also the method that they have the most research on but they also mention a lot of alternatives, and those alternatives are great, i and many others wouldn't know about SN or all the others obscure methods without this book.

and when you look at their history and the history of Philip Nitschke you will know that they really are activist for the right to die, and they also suffer from constant harassment and prosecution by law enforcement agencies around the world. this kind of knowledge is banned in most places and shunned upon by academia, there's very little accurate information about it and it's expensive for a very good reason.

now, there could be some shady stuff going on behind the curtains. but that's an entirely different topic.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

It won't stop anyone to try their own methods as Exit does not give a single method actually available unless you have thousands of dollars to give them first.

Have you actually looked at a copy of the PPH? There's a link in the Resources Compliation. It includes the SN method, specific OD combinations, nitrogen tanks with exit bags, etc.

There is a lot of fishiness about the PPH itself, and I have other criticisms of Nitschke, so I am not a fan. But I don't consider it to be an outright scam organization, more of a marketing scheme, definitely to make money (memberships, book, owns Mad Dog Brewing, seminars, etc.), with a charismatic leader who I don't find to be trustworthy. I don't trust someone just because they have an MD, and I don't trust that his motives are altruistic.

PPH issues -- updated regularly but takes several updates for information to catch up, such as places to buy N no longer available (costs money to travel for no results) and buying N from D who proved to be a scammer, arbitrary ratings such as peacefulness that change from update to update, no references to medical literature to support claims, random advice about propanolol potentiator dose for SN method.



TL;DR

I agree that there's sketchiness, but I disagree with the OP's specific reasons. I get more of a sense of disinformation from PN and Exit -- there's enough reliable information mixed with some BS that it's hard to know what to trust.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

In defense of the PPH, it's literally impossible to provide objectively determined ratings. Measures of peacefulness, effectiveness, etc. have a subjective component, it should only provide a rough guess as what you might expect. As an example, the fear of jumping varies greatly from one person to another while its effectiveness is largely determined by the height at which you jump. Since neither of these can be consistently measured across individuals, it seems practical to me to include a (very) rough guess rather than nothing at all.

I hear what you're saying, but PN gives what seem to be totally subjective and arbitrary ratings, he doesn't make it clear how he comes to those determinations -- Does he pull them from his ass? Does he review medical reports? Does he interview witnesses to suicides? Does he himself witness suicides? He doesn't explain how he comes to a rating, and they change from edition to edition. The PPH is supposed to be a guide by a scientist, yet I see no evidence of any kind of scientific method applied to most ratings, only his say-so, and legit/non-shady scientists and academics don't work like that.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

The PPH is certainly lacking in transparency, I can agree with you there. However, some measures are impossible to study because they suffer from methodological issues. For instance, how do you determine the peacefulness of jumping? Not only does it subjectively vary from one person to another based on fear of heights and whatnot, but how do you even sample from people who have attempted suicide? Most of them will be dead, and sampling from survivors is not a sound approach. The best anyone can do is guess.

Then if one was guessing, either state they're guessing, or not rate it at all. He speaks with authority, and people will often put the words of a doctor above their own reasoning and even ethics/conscience. I recommend the book Persuasion for documentation of research into how people are unduly influenced by credentials and uniforms.

We are in agreement about the lack of transparency.

 

[Notabadguy]

Well, they are professionals. Of course money makes things easier, like in any other aspect in life.

 

[autumnal]

[...] Exit does not give a single method actually available unless you have thousands of dollars to give them first.

I'm sorry but what the hell are you talking about?! Have you even read the PPH?!

 

[Disappointered]

I more or less agree with what most people seem to be agreeing on, which is: the PPH does have some usefulness (although grossly overpriced especially for an ebook) but that there is some shadiness going on. What are some people's thoughts on the shadiness? Is it about why the cost is so high? where the money goes? inflating the value of methodology?

I recently became a member of Exit just to support the cause but i have had some questions.
I also definitely agree with the poster who said PN cares about the right to die and is at least in some part sincere about that as a motivation for him. Definitely. But I too don't just trust someone because they're a medical doctor and I suspect his motives, even if he is sincere about believing in the right to die, are not altruistic.

Also, out of curiosity, does anyone know why the new place in Switzerland is called Pegasos? And what happened to the other one in Switzerland? Is one better/worse than the other?

 

[Aap]

What specifically are you objecting to? The fact the PPH is by far the authoritative source on methods to ctb, that it is updated frequently, or that PN doesn't work for free/whatever your definition of "reasonable" is? There is no better reference available; where do you think the information on this site originated?

 

[Meditation guide]

But honestly, did that book ever really help someone CTB easily from home, peacefully, with no suffering ?

I agree. It's basically preying on desperate people without really helping anyone. It's full of 4 drug cocktails and you can't get the drugs anywhere. It's overpriced. Nothing helpful there.

I joined Exit years ago and now they tell me they have no record of it.

 

[Greenberg]

I know this association is very popular. But more I look at what they sell more I find it useless. Like the peacefulhandbook. $80 for a book? On their website it's seems full of super efficient, easy to use and easy to get devices/drugs, but once you read it it's all about Nembutal (that nobody can get easily, if ever you can ever get it) and exit bag method, or other methods that are definitely no peaceful or harmless, like hanging, jumping... well, every methods that everybody already knows.

When you look at it objectively, Exit International shop looks like a bait for rich people to get euthanasia in EU for an expensive price, but will never help anyone else.
Just my opinion of course.

But honestly, did that book ever really help someone CTB easily from home, peacefully, with no suffering ?

It is a money-maker for Dr. PN!

 

[OnlyTheWind]

I tend to do most of my reading outside of the PPHB. This forum has way more information anyway. Kind of dissappointing that there isn't a longer list of N suppliers, because that would be great and I still haven't crossed this method off my list.

 

[Aap]

So?

 

[Meditation guide]

So?