Exit bag method - some questions

[cat7802]

Hi, I apologise if these questions have already been posed (I scoured the forums yesterday for hours and still have some questions about this method).

I have attempted to use the exit bag method using nitrogen (N2) 4 x now and each time my survival instincts/panic set in and I yanked the bag off before unconsciousness could set in. Having read up more on the method I can see now that there was probably residual oxygen in the bag that caused the panicked feeling, likewise one thing that really threw me off was that every time I would inhale the bag would suck up over my mouth and nose and this would prevent me from breathing in and further create the panic.

I see that purchasing a thicker type of bag would likely resolve the later issue but still have some q's.

1. Why is it recommended that we sit upright instead of lying down in a bed? I meditate lying down and it's most comfortable for me but I've read many threads that advise against this (previous attempts were all lying down)

2. I'm nervous that after 4 attempts I don't have enough Nitrogen to fully complete the job now. Because of this I am thinking of using a hybrid model where I inflate the bag with nitrogen, but use a tight elasticated band (what those that use the exit bag method with sleeping pills and no gas do) and hold the bag slightly open with one hand and the tube just at the opening of the bag with the other. The thinking being that once unconsciousness sets in both my hands will relax and release what they are holding, the hose will fall from the bag and the elastic will form an enclosed seal around my neck where no oxygen can get in - this mitigates the risk of not having enough nitrogen as I would only need enough for the initial 30 seconds to knock me out. Of course the risk here being that the hose doesn't fall out and instead the gas blows up the bag to the point where it bursts, so I would need to be holding the hose at the very entrance of the bag - not sure if this will properly displace the oxygen or CO2 though. Can anyone see any flaws in this plan that I may be overlooking.

I'm nervous to have another failed attempt, it's been two weeks since my last one and even though I didn't reach unconsciousness my throat has been on fire ever since then, as if I burned the skin away (not sure if it's related but it started right after the last attempt).

Appreciate any feedback here.

 

[WearyOfStruggling]

Hi, I apologise if these questions have already been posed (I scoured the forums yesterday for hours and still have some questions about this method).

I have attempted to use the exit bag method using nitrogen (N2) 4 x now and each time my survival instincts/panic set in and I yanked the bag off before unconsciousness could set in. Having read up more on the method I can see now that there was probably residual oxygen in the bag that caused the panicked feeling, likewise one thing that really threw me off was that every time I would inhale the bag would suck up over my mouth and nose and this would prevent me from breathing in and further create the panic.

I see that purchasing a thicker type of bag would likely resolve the later issue but still have some q's.

1. Why is it recommended that we sit upright instead of lying down in a bed? I meditate lying down and it's most comfortable for me but I've read many threads that advise against this (previous attempts were all lying down)

2. I'm nervous that after 4 attempts I don't have enough Nitrogen to fully complete the job now. Because of this I am thinking of using a hybrid model where I inflate the bag with nitrogen, but use a tight elasticated band (what those that use the exit bag method with sleeping pills and no gas do) and hold the bag slightly open with one hand and the tube just at the opening of the bag with the other. The thinking being that once unconsciousness sets in both my hands will relax and release what they are holding, the hose will fall from the bag and the elastic will form an enclosed seal around my neck where no oxygen can get in - this mitigates the risk of not having enough nitrogen as I would only need enough for the initial 30 seconds to knock me out. Of course the risk here being that the hose doesn't fall out and instead the gas blows up the bag to the point where it bursts, so I would need to be holding the hose at the very entrance of the bag - not sure if this will properly displace the oxygen or CO2 though. Can anyone see any flaws in this plan that I may be overlooking.

I'm nervous to have another failed attempt, it's been two weeks since my last one and even though I didn't reach unconsciousness my throat has been on fire ever since then, as if I burned the skin away (not sure if it's related but it started right after the last attempt).

Appreciate any feedback here.

The PPeH states to place the bag on the head with the elastic around the forehead first, squeeze all air out of the bag, turn on the gas flow and allow the bag to fully inflate, breathe in and out deeply a few times to flush out CO2 from your body, exhale completely, pull the bag down over the head with the elastic closing the bag snugly around the neck, and inhale deeply. Did you do all those things? If not, why?

I think if the bag was fully inflated initially and the elastic around the neck isn't too loose, it should remain inflated and so wouldn't block the mouth and nose. That's been my experience using a turkey roasting bag.

Q1: I think partially reclining is preferable to sitting fully upright, which may allow the body to fall out of the chair, or lying fully down, which could allow the body to involuntarily roll over during unconsciousness. That's just my opinion and I don't have any medical expertise.

Q2: I would not be confident in this method because I believe continuing the flow of inert gas into the bag after unconsciousness is important to displace the exhaled breath containing CO2, and some oxygen as well, and therefore prevent the hypercapnic response from awakening you to urgently remove the bag. If I were in the situation of being unsure of whether I had enough gas, I would use the cylinder pressure and the true physical volume of the cylinder, sometimes referred to as the water volume, to calculate how much uncompressed gas volume remains and thus how long the gas will last flowing at the prescribed rate, and if neccessary have the cylinder refilled. If you don't know how to do that calculation, I have posted about it previously.

 

[Greenberg]

Hi, I apologise if these questions have already been posed (I scoured the forums yesterday for hours and still have some questions about this method).

I have attempted to use the exit bag method using nitrogen (N2) 4 x now and each time my survival instincts/panic set in and I yanked the bag off before unconsciousness could set in. Having read up more on the method I can see now that there was probably residual oxygen in the bag that caused the panicked feeling, likewise one thing that really threw me off was that every time I would inhale the bag would suck up over my mouth and nose and this would prevent me from breathing in and further create the panic.

I see that purchasing a thicker type of bag would likely resolve the later issue but still have some q's.

1. Why is it recommended that we sit upright instead of lying down in a bed? I meditate lying down and it's most comfortable for me but I've read many threads that advise against this (previous attempts were all lying down)

2. I'm nervous that after 4 attempts I don't have enough Nitrogen to fully complete the job now. Because of this I am thinking of using a hybrid model where I inflate the bag with nitrogen, but use a tight elasticated band (what those that use the exit bag method with sleeping pills and no gas do) and hold the bag slightly open with one hand and the tube just at the opening of the bag with the other. The thinking being that once unconsciousness sets in both my hands will relax and release what they are holding, the hose will fall from the bag and the elastic will form an enclosed seal around my neck where no oxygen can get in - this mitigates the risk of not having enough nitrogen as I would only need enough for the initial 30 seconds to knock me out. Of course the risk here being that the hose doesn't fall out and instead the gas blows up the bag to the point where it bursts, so I would need to be holding the hose at the very entrance of the bag - not sure if this will properly displace the oxygen or CO2 though. Can anyone see any flaws in this plan that I may be overlooking.

I'm nervous to have another failed attempt, it's been two weeks since my last one and even though I didn't reach unconsciousness my throat has been on fire ever since then, as if I burned the skin away (not sure if it's related but it started right after the last attempt).

Appreciate any feedback here.

I believe the non-rebreather mask is superior to any homemade bag. I have discussed this medical device in detail on my posts at blogspot. If you are interested and without repeating myself, my handle there is nitrogenexit,; alternatively, you can post specific questions here. Cheers!

 

[rancho]

I believe the non-rebreather mask is superior to any homemade bag. I have discussed this medical device in detail on my posts at blogspot. If you are interested and without repeating myself, my handle there is nitrogenexit,; alternatively, you can post specific questions here. Cheers!

I'm not familiar with blogspot I guess because I've searched for you there and can't find you. How do you find you on there?

 

[cat7802]

I believe the non-rebreather mask is superior to any homemade bag. I have discussed this medical device in detail on my posts at blogspot. If you are interested and without repeating myself, my handle there is nitrogenexit,; alternatively, you can post specific questions here. Cheers!

Thanks I did read your thread about this last night and it was helpful. One of the attempts was using a CPAP rebreather mask but I don't think the fit was tight enough and air was getting in, I was lying down for what felt like minutes (although probably was only a minute) and getting dizzy but nothing was happening (I couldn't find your blogspot article on it but I read the threads you'd posted about it in here).

The PPeH states to place the bag on the head with the elastic around the forehead first, squeeze all air out of the bag, turn on the gas flow and allow the bag to fully inflate, breathe in and out deeply a few times to flush out CO2 from your body, exhale completely, pull the bag down over the head with the elastic closing the bag snugly around the neck, and inhale deeply. Did you do all those things? If not, why?

I think if the bag was fully inflated initially and the elastic around the neck isn't too loose, it should remain inflated and so wouldn't block the mouth and nose. That's been my experience using a turkey roasting bag.

Q1: I think partially reclining is preferable to sitting fully upright, which may allow the body to fall out of the chair, or lying fully down, which could allow the body to involuntarily roll over during unconsciousness. That's just my opinion and I don't have any medical expertise.

Q2: I would not be confident in this method because I believe continuing the flow of inert gas into the bag after unconsciousness is important to displace the exhaled breath containing CO2, and some oxygen as well, and therefore prevent the hypercapnic response from awakening you to urgently remove the bag. If I were in the situation if being unsure of whether I had enough gas, I would use the cylinder pressure and the true physical volume of the cylinder, sometimes referred to as the water volume, to calculate how much uncompressed gas volume remains and thus how long the gas will last flowing at the prescribed rate, and if neccessary have the cylinder refilled. If you don't know how to do that calculation, I have posted about it previously.

I don't think I had the right bag (it was a medium sized garbage bag with a drawstring and probably let too much air in). The issue I have is that where I live they have pretty much banned most plastic bags and we don't eat turkey here so the roasting bags in grocery stores are quite small, and the other bags are too big.

Ok makes sense re lying down.

If you are unconscious though could the hypercapnic response kick in? Once a drown victim falls unconscious they can still come to on their own? If so then this makes sense as well,. Say I did go through with the hybrid method and the hypercapnic response kicked in after falling unconscious and I tore the bag off, could there still be issues with brain damage at this stage?

 

[Deleted-User-0]

Hi, I apologise if these questions have already been posed (I scoured the forums yesterday for hours and still have some questions about this method).

I have attempted to use the exit bag method using nitrogen (N2) 4 x now and each time my survival instincts/panic set in and I yanked the bag off before unconsciousness could set in. Having read up more on the method I can see now that there was probably residual oxygen in the bag that caused the panicked feeling, likewise one thing that really threw me off was that every time I would inhale the bag would suck up over my mouth and nose and this would prevent me from breathing in and further create the panic.

I see that purchasing a thicker type of bag would likely resolve the later issue but still have some q's.

1. Why is it recommended that we sit upright instead of lying down in a bed? I meditate lying down and it's most comfortable for me but I've read many threads that advise against this (previous attempts were all lying down)

2. I'm nervous that after 4 attempts I don't have enough Nitrogen to fully complete the job now. Because of this I am thinking of using a hybrid model where I inflate the bag with nitrogen, but use a tight elasticated band (what those that use the exit bag method with sleeping pills and no gas do) and hold the bag slightly open with one hand and the tube just at the opening of the bag with the other. The thinking being that once unconsciousness sets in both my hands will relax and release what they are holding, the hose will fall from the bag and the elastic will form an enclosed seal around my neck where no oxygen can get in - this mitigates the risk of not having enough nitrogen as I would only need enough for the initial 30 seconds to knock me out. Of course the risk here being that the hose doesn't fall out and instead the gas blows up the bag to the point where it bursts, so I would need to be holding the hose at the very entrance of the bag - not sure if this will properly displace the oxygen or CO2 though. Can anyone see any flaws in this plan that I may be overlooking.

I'm nervous to have another failed attempt, it's been two weeks since my last one and even though I didn't reach unconsciousness my throat has been on fire ever since then, as if I burned the skin away (not sure if it's related but it started right after the last attempt).

Appreciate any feedback here.

With regards to your second point it's a big NO. You illustrated a very risky and unreliable sequence that actually freaked me out in all good conscience I couldn't let this go unremarked on.
Please don't do this, you're likely to wake up alive and hospitalized with respiratory and possibly brain injury. It is an unsound, untried, rather absurd method that most likely will not work.

 

[rancho]

With regards to your second point it's a big NO. You illustrated a very risky and unreliable sequence that actually freaked me out in all good conscience I couldn't let this go unremarked on.
Please don't do this, you're likely to wake up alive and hospitalized with respiratory and possibly brain injury. It is an unsound, untried, rather absurd method that most likely will not work.

What part of it are you referring to?

 

[cat7802]

With regards to your second point it's a big NO. You illustrated a very risky and unreliable sequence that actually freaked me out in all good conscience I couldn't let this go unremarked on.
Please don't do this, you're likely to wake up alive and hospitalized with respiratory and possibly brain injury. It is an unsound, untried, rather absurd method that most likely will not work.

Ok thanks, I guess that's what I was after, a sanity check around the idea.

I feel so defeated about the whole thing at this stage. How can I numb or stop the survival instinct that always seems to kick in right before I fall unconscious, I know I deeply want death and the release from it but it's like my mind/body is a biological babysitter party crashing the whole thing. When I have the bag over my head, one second feels like twenty.

 

[Deleted-User-0]

What part of it are you referring to?

Your entire hybrid model. I'm sorry I'm not going back and forth here. There are far too many dependencies and if's in your method.

 

[rancho]

Your entire hybrid model. I'm sorry I'm not going back and forth here. There are far too many dependencies and if's in your method.

It wasn't actually me. I was just wondering what part of the method was wrong, so I wouldn't do it.

 

[Deleted-User-0]

Ok thanks, I guess that's what I was after, a sanity check around the idea.

I feel so defeated about the whole thing at this stage. How can I numb or stop the survival instinct that always seems to kick in right before I fall unconscious, I know I deeply want death and the release from it but it's like my mind/body is a biological babysitter party crashing the whole thing. When I have the bag over my head, one second feels like twenty.

I am sorry to hear about your pain. For moral reasons I'm not giving any advice on any CTB method I just occasionally stop by if I see someone going to try a risky and complicated method that would potentially fail especially in Exit Bag method as I spent a long time to research and test this method meticulously.

 

[rancho]

I am sorry to hear about your pain. For moral reasons I'm not giving any advice on any CTB method I just occasionally stop by if I see someone going to try a risky and complicated method that would potentially fail especially in Exit Bag method as I spent a long time to research and test this method meticulously.

Would you consider it the best method, all things considered?

 

[Deleted-User-0]

Would you consider it the best method, all things considered?

I personally think N is the most superior method when it comes to self-deliverance and Exit Bag using an inert gas comes next if researched and tested meticulously.

 

[rancho]

I personally think N is the most superior method when it comes to self-deliverance and Exit Bag using an inert gas comes next if researched and tested meticulously.

Sorry about asking these questions, but what type of testing should be done before doing it for real?

 

[WearyOfStruggling]

...
I don't think I had the right bag (it was a medium sized garbage bag with a drawstring and probably let too much air in). The issue I have is that where I live they have pretty much banned most plastic bags and we don't eat turkey here so the roasting bags in grocery stores are quite small, and the other bags are too big.

Ok makes sense re lying down.

If you are unconscious though could the hypercapnic response kick in? Once a drown victim falls unconscious they can still come to on their own? If so then this makes sense as well,. Say I did go through with the hybrid method and the hypercapnic response kicked in after falling unconscious and I tore the bag off, could there still be issues with brain damage at this stage?

I recommend obtaining a bag about the size of the turkey roasting bag which is 19"x23.5" so that the volume is appropriate for the 15 l/m flow rate recommended by Exit International, and make sure to use an elastic drawstring. I don't know where you live, but I would think a turkey roasting bag would be available online in most places in the developed world.

As I mentioned I don't have any medical expertise, but I don't know why the hypercapnic response would not be active while unconscious. I personally would not want to take the chance that it would not wake me up after my brain had been deprived of oxygen.

Regarding using a nonrebreather mask rather than a bag hood, I can only say that although in theory the NRB mask sounds like it should work, I would prefer to use the bag which has a track record of testing and usage. The NRB mask Wikipedia entry says that because the masks are one size fits all, there's a possibility of air leaks between the mask and face which sometimes may prevent the high rate of oxygen concentration in the inhaled gas that the manufacturer intended.

 

[rancho]

I recommend obtaining a bag about the size of the turkey roasting bag which is 19"x23.5" so that the volume is appropriate for the 15 l/m flow rate recommended by Exit International, and make sure to use an elastic drawstring. I don't know where you live, but I would think a turkey roasting bag would be available online in most places in the developed world.

As I mentioned I don't have any medical expertise, but I don't know why the hypercapnic response would not be active while unconscious. I personally would not want to take the chance that it would not wake me up after my brain had been deprived of oxygen.

Regarding using a nonrebreather mask rather than a bag hood, I can only say that although in theory the NBR mask sounds like it should work in theory, I would prefer to use the bag which has a track record of testing and usage. The NBR mask Wikipedia entry says that because the masks are one size fits all, there's a possibility of air leaks between the mask and face which sometimes may prevent the high rate of oxygen concentration in the inhaled gas that the manufacturer intended.

Is an NBR mask the same as a CPAP?

 

[WearyOfStruggling]

Is an NBR mask the same as a CPAP?

No, NRB means nonrebreather mask. I originally wrote NBR but corrected my post. @Greenberg has posted and has a blogspot blog about it.

 

[Greenberg]

Is an NBR mask the same as a CPAP?

CPAP is completely different from an nbr

 

[Greenberg]

With regards to your second point it's a big NO. You illustrated a very risky and unreliable sequence that actually freaked me out in all good conscience I couldn't let this go unremarked on.
Please don't do this, you're likely to wake up alive and hospitalized with respiratory and possibly brain injury. It is an unsound, untried, rather absurd method that most likely will not work.

I absolutely agree with @Diver_K_A on this. Please, please heed his warning!! Otherwise, you will become a vegetable!!

 

[Englishman94]

Should there still be a gap when you pull the bag down if so how big should the gap be?

 

[Greenberg]

Should there still be a gap when you pull the bag down if so how big should the gap be?

Between a one-to-two finger gap is fine.