Exit Bag and Asthma/lung issues question

[Ta555]

Hi everyone,

Wondering if anyone can explain to me why exit bag with nitrogen/helium isn't recommended for people with lung issues? Surely even a person with lung issues would die if deprived of oxygen for long enough??

I don't have COPD or anything serious like that and I've never been formally diagnosed with asthma or ever touched an inhaler. I've never had any attacks where I couldn't breathe or had difficulty breathing. But one time my doctor made me breathe into one of those plastic spirometer things and apparently the volume of air I breathed out was smaller than what the chart says for my weight/height and she was like, have you got mild asthma? And I was like, I've never felt anything like asthma in my life? I mean, I was attending high intensity interval training before so I don't think so?

I have most of the equipment for the exit bag but don't want to use it if it's not going to work and would rather look for something else. If you know why people with lung issues shouldn't use the exit bag, or can explain the physiology of it, please let me know!

Oh and I can't go to the doctor's atm to do asthma investigations or anything like that, so all I'm after is just the explanation of why the method doesn't work with lung issues. Thanks!

 

[peach75]

You take 3 breaths and no oxygen in your system. This recommendation is ridiculous.

 

[Apricity]

You take 3 breaths and no oxygen in your system. This recommendation is ridiculous.

OP didn't recommended anything. If you're referring to the exit bag method in general, you're quite wrong. Plenty of people have CTB this way. I tried it myself not long ago and started going out within 15 seconds. Unfortunately, I gave in to survival instinct and removed to bag before I could ctb. If you can overcome SI and properly set up and execute this method, it's painless and quick.

 

[Robin]

Hallo allerseits,

Ich frage mich, ob mir jemand erklären kann, warum ein Ausstiegsbeutel mit Stickstoff / Helium für Menschen mit Lungenproblemen nicht empfohlen wird? Sicherlich würde sogar eine Person mit Lungenproblemen sterben, wenn sie lange genug ohne Sauerstoff wäre?

Ich habe keine oder ähnliches und bei mir war noch nie offiziell COPD oder ich habe immer einen inenator berührt. Ich hatte noch nie Anfälle, bei denen ich nicht atmen konnte oder Schwierigkeiten beim Atmen hatte. Aber einmal ließ mich mein Arzt in einem Plastik-Spirometer-Dinge atmen und Haben anscheinend war das Luftvolumen, das ich ausgeatmet hatte, kleiner als das, was die Tabelle für mein Gewicht / meine Größe sagt, und sie sagte: Sie leichtes Asthma? Und ich dachte mir, ich habe noch nie in meinem Leben so etwas wie Asthma gespürt? Ich meine, ich habe vorher ein hochintensives Intervalltraining besucht, also glaube ich nicht?

Ich habe die meiste Ausrüstung für die Ausstiegstasche, möchte sie aber nicht benutzen, wenn sie nicht funktioniert und sucht lieber etwas anderes. If you wissen, warum Menschen mit Lungenproblemen den Ausstiegsbeutel nicht verwenden sollten oder sterben Physiologie davon erklären can, Lassen Sie es mich bitte wissen!

Oh, und ich kann nicht zum Arzt gehen, um Asthmauntersuchungen oder ähnliches durchführen, auch will ich nur erklären, warum die Methode bei Lungenproblemen nicht funktioniert. Vielen Dank!

Der

Hallo allerseits,

Ich frage mich, ob mir jemand erklären kann, warum ein Ausstiegsbeutel mit Stickstoff / Helium für Menschen mit Lungenproblemen nicht empfohlen wird? Sicherlich würde sogar eine Person mit Lungenproblemen sterben, wenn sie lange genug ohne Sauerstoff wäre?

Ich habe keine COPD oder ähnliches und bei mir wurde noch nie offiziell Asthma diagnostiziert oder ich habe jemals einen Inhalator berührt. Ich hatte noch nie Anfälle, bei denen ich nicht atmen konnte oder Schwierigkeiten beim Atmen hatte. Aber einmal ließ mich mein Arzt in eines dieser Plastik-Spirometer-Dinge atmen und anscheinend war das Luftvolumen, das ich ausgeatmet hatte, kleiner als das, was die Tabelle für mein Gewicht / meine Größe sagt, und sie sagte: Haben Sie leichtes Asthma? Und ich dachte mir, ich habe noch nie in meinem Leben so etwas wie Asthma gespürt? Ich meine, ich habe vorher ein hochintensives Intervalltraining besucht, also glaube ich nicht?

Ich habe die meiste Ausrüstung für die Ausstiegstasche, möchte sie aber nicht benutzen, wenn sie nicht funktioniert und suche lieber etwas anderes. Wenn Sie wissen, warum Menschen mit Lungenproblemen den Ausstiegsbeutel nicht verwenden sollten oder die Physiologie davon erklären können, lassen Sie es mich bitte wissen!

Oh, und ich kann nicht zum Arzt gehen, um Asthmauntersuchungen oder ähnliches durchzuführen, also will ich nur erklären, warum die Methode bei Lungenproblemen nicht funktioniert. Vielen Dank!

Der gas Austausch ist gestört bei Menschen mit Lungenproblemen das würde dann wahrscheinlich zu viel co2 im Blut sein oder sowas

 

[Ta555]

You take 3 breaths and no oxygen in your system. This recommendation is ridiculous.

I'm sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about. It doesn't answer my question. All the books/resources I've read all clearly state you shouldn't attempt this if you have lung problems and I want to know the physiological reasoning behind this because even people with lung issues aren't immortal and should still pass away if deprived of oxygen as happens with an exit bag.

Der

Der gas Austausch ist gestört bei Menschen mit Lungenproblemen das würde dann wahrscheinlich zu viel co2 im Blut sein oder sowas

Hello. Do you mean you will breathe out too much CO2 and panic faster?

OP didn't recommended anything. If you're referring to the exit bag method in general, you're quite wrong. Plenty of people have CTB this way. I tried it myself not long ago and started going out within 15 seconds. Unfortunately, I gave in to survival instinct and removed to bag before I could ctb. If you can overcome SI and properly set up and execute this method, it's painless and quick.

Hi, all the books I've read clearly state that you should not attempt this method of you have lung issues. I also thought it was strange since it's not like people with lung issues are immortal, surely they'll pass away just like anyone else if deprived of oxygen so I was puzzled by this repeated warnings and was hoping someone could explain it to me.

 

[Robin]

Es tut mir leid, aber ich habe keine Ahnung, wovon Sie sprechen. Es beantwortet meine Frage nicht. Alle Bücher/Ressourcen, die ich gelesen habe, sagen eindeutig, dass Sie dies nicht versuchen sollten, wenn Sie Lungenprobleme haben, und ich möchte die physiologischen Gründe dafür wissen, denn selbst Menschen mit Lungenproblemen sind nicht unsterblich und sollten dennoch sterben, wenn sie entzogen sind Sauerstoff, wie es bei einem Austrittsbeutel der Fall ist.

Hallo. Sie meinen, Sie atmen zu viel CO2 aus und geraten schneller in Panik?

Das ein und ausatmen ist gestört du würdest eher atemnot bekommen deswegen wird es nicht empfohlen aber wenn du tief ein und ausatmen kannst müsste es eigentlich gehen

 

[Ta555]

Das ein und ausatmen ist gestört du würdest eher atemnot bekommen deswegen wird es nicht empfohlen aber wenn du tief ein und ausatmen kannst müsste es eigentlich gehen

I understand that but even with small, shallow breaths there is still no oxygen to breathe so I don't understand the problem.

 

[Robin]

Ich verstehe das, aber selbst bei kleinen, flachen Atemzügen gibt es immer noch keinen Sauerstoff zum Atmen, daher verstehe ich das Problem nicht.

Ja sterben wirst du so oder so ohne sauerstoff Aber wenn sterben Atmung gut funktioniert der Gasaustausch wirst du kein atemnot spüren und bei Lungenprobleme bekommt man sie
Ist komisch und scheiße ich weiß

 

[Apricity]

Smaller breaths means it could take away longer, and you might not be able to get all co2 out, which could trigger your hypercapnic alarm. Higher chance of failure I'm guessing. This method is not cheap. After N, it is the second most expensive I think. My setup cost me $300.

 

[Ta555]

Smaller breaths means it could take away longer, and you might not be able to get all co2 out, which could trigger your hypercapnic alarm. Higher chance of failure I'm guessing. This method is not cheap. After N, it is the second most expensive I think. My setup cost me $300.

Sorry I don't understand what you mean by "you might not be able to get all co2 out, which could trigger your hypercapnic alarm". I mean I know that the hypercapnic alarm is when your body panics because there's too much CO2 but if you take a huge breath out just before pulling the bag down surely it won't be an issue?

 

[Apricity]

Sorry I don't understand what you mean by "you might not be able to get all co2 out, which could trigger your hypercapnic alarm". I mean I know that the hypercapnic alarm is when your body panics because there's too much CO2 but if you take a huge breath out just before pulling the bag down surely it won't be an issue?

You hyperventilate, then exhale; don't inhale. Even when you exhale, you still have some oxygen and co2 in your lungs, because you can never get them totally empty.

I'm not a medical or physiology expert, so I can't really answer your question in detail. Maybe research gas exchange in lungs with lower capacity.

 

[greencondo]

well from what I was told, know one of the reasons the gas chamber for euthanizing animals (which is still done in a few states, last I read), one of the many reasons its considered inhumane is because the very old and very young cant breath as well and it actually takes longer to die.
"They may begin convulsing before they lose consciousness, and death can be especially slow to come for animals who are very young or old or sick." "There have even been rare cases of animals surviving the chamber, only to end up alive in a landfill."

A Humane World

blog.humanesociety.org

so I imagine something similar is the same for people and why it my not be encouraged as quick and calm. (if you have the choices)

 

[Butterflyfree]

well from what I was told, know one of the reasons the gas chamber for euthanizing animals (which is still done in a few states, last I read), one of the many reasons its considered inhumane is because the very old and very young cant breath as well and it actually takes longer to die.
"They may begin convulsing before they lose consciousness, and death can be especially slow to come for animals who are very young or old or sick." "There have even been rare cases of animals surviving the chamber, only to end up alive in a landfill."

A Humane World

blog.humanesociety.org

so I imagine something similar is the same for people and why it my not be encouraged as quick and calm. (if you have the choices)

@greencondo it's not the same for animals as it is for humans. In some animals nitrogen isn't optimal and doesn't work the same as it does for humans. Nitrogen and exit bag works well for humans or final exit Network would not use this method. It is quick and calm.

 

[Ta555]

@greencondo it's not the same for animals as it is for humans. In some animals nitrogen isn't optimal and doesn't work the same as it does for humans. Nitrogen and exit bag works well for humans or final exit Network would not use this method. It is quick and calm.

We were just talking about situations of asthma and lung disease :)

 

[Greenberg]

Hi everyone,

Wondering if anyone can explain to me why exit bag with nitrogen/helium isn't recommended for people with lung issues? Surely even a person with lung issues would die if deprived of oxygen for long enough??

I don't have COPD or anything serious like that and I've never been formally diagnosed with asthma or ever touched an inhaler. I've never had any attacks where I couldn't breathe or had difficulty breathing. But one time my doctor made me breathe into one of those plastic spirometer things and apparently the volume of air I breathed out was smaller than what the chart says for my weight/height and she was like, have you got mild asthma? And I was like, I've never felt anything like asthma in my life? I mean, I was attending high intensity interval training before so I don't think so?

I have most of the equipment for the exit bag but don't want to use it if it's not going to work and would rather look for something else. If you know why people with lung issues shouldn't use the exit bag, or can explain the physiology of it, please let me know!

Oh and I can't go to the doctor's atm to do asthma investigations or anything like that, so all I'm after is just the explanation of why the method doesn't work with lung issues. Thanks!

People who suffer from respiratory issues (i.e., asthma, COPD, etc.) do not get enough oxygen into their lungs; this, in turn, raises the risk of developing hypoxia.

Hypoxia can lead to a condition called hypercapnia. This occurs when the lungs retain too much carbon dioxide due to breathing difficulties. Consequently, the person may already have elevated carbon dioxide levels in their bloodstream.

Finally, CBT via the exit bag method may trigger immediate hypercapnia due to the retention of carbon dioxide within the bloodstream.

Best, G

 

[Butterflyfree]

People who suffer from respiratory issues (i.e., asthma, COPD, etc.) do not get enough oxygen into their lungs; this, in turn, raises the risk of developing hypoxia.

Hypoxia can lead to a condition called hypercapnia. This occurs when the lungs retain too much carbon dioxide due to breathing difficulties. Consequently, the person may already have elevated carbon dioxide levels in their bloodstream.

Finally, CBT via the exit bag method may trigger immediate hypercapnia due to the retention of carbon dioxide within the bloodstream.

Best, G

@Greenberg I suffer from asthma G should I be concerned?

 

[Greenberg]

It really depends on the severity of your asthma. Is it major or minor? Best, G

 

[Butterflyfree]

It really depends on the severity of your asthma. Is it major or minor? Best, G

@Greenberg I only use my inhalers when I'm having a flare up, or I'm sick.

 

[Greenberg]

If it is infrequent, your asthma is mild so you are probably okay. Best, G