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In reading the thread.. I never like the words "good luck" in goodbye threads. Those are typically words of encouragement for someone to do well at something.
but it's my personal opinion.. others will feel different. The sites users have changed a lot in a year. There is more "support"
I didnt like the thread.. but she voluntarily came to the site for her own reasons and made this choice.
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Pineapplecrown, TheSoulless, Fenty(nal) and 6 others
That's what I mean when I tell people that they need to stop worrying and because there's not a real threat. I'm not saying that it's impossible for someone to find a way to f*** with this site what I'm saying is that you just have to Keep On Truckin getting that information out there like the Phoenix you keep coming back
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TotallyIsolated, Saed and Deleted member 17949
it feels horrible for everybody who is Left Behind it feels absolutely Unthinkable [...] it is heartbreaking is devastating it is the worst pain you could ever ever imagine
This is what really gets to me. Its ALWAYS about their pain, NEVER about ours. It doesn't matter how much pain a suicidal person is going through... our pain doesn't matter to them. We don't matter. They dont want to have to deal with it. To face up to it.
With much compassion and respect to Shawn's family and others who have lost a loved one to suicide and seek to discharge that pain by battling us -- who are the same as those you loved, who like them do not seek to assault you or others in seeking release from suffering -- I share from my sincere and good heart this post by another member:
"Hello Cruel World" is a book by author Kate Bornstein who also wrote a moving tribute to her friend who did CTB, in which she wrote:
"We think: if only I had just… and … if only I hadn't… and I should have seen it coming. My darling, she left because she felt she needed to leave. Please allow her that agency, and take comfort in knowing you were a beloved member of her tribe while she was alive."
im curious...do you guys think she'll succeed? i hope not. i hope they take the time to look into it for themselves and see how nice we actually are :) <3
We definitely need a mirror of this site in case it goes down. Clearnet and darknet.
There used to be a /suicide/ board on the 8chan imageboard before it was taken down due to the el paso shooting last year. The site is back up now under a new name which you can easily find, however most of the boards from the previous site were lost.
What's the most important ingredient for creating the hero recipe? A villain. We all are just that. No one can stand to accept their own mistakes. Their own faults. I am not judging anyone but the energy and strength you are using to bring us down and stake us alive, if only you had used a small percentage of that to help your loved one, the story would have been a lot more different.
The parents had bouncer at the funeral to prevent anyone from saying "saw this coming", "no surprise" or anything of that ilk. If only they could install a bouncer in reality to prevent anything that didn't fit their carefully-crafted family vision.
I am sorry for them.
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Shawn's step-father, Chip Bieber, said, "She had her issues. We were working on it. But this website never gave her a chance."
Wtf is this logic, you never gave her a chance, she came here for one reason. She is fit and able to make her own choices, they were respected by this forum.
" Her family, by speaking out, just hopes that they can help someone. They know that nothing they can do will bring Shawn back, but if they can prevent one other person from going down that tragic path, they think it's worth sharing their grief, that they can raise awareness that such websites exist and that they can be fatal. "
Ah yes that makes total sense, if someone cannot ctb in a relatively painless and un-messy fashion that's really bad. /s
She came here, did not tell anyone, and went with people with her. I think that is the best I could hope for death in any way.
Now the mother wants to shut down the site, not for me, not for you, not for anyone. It's herself, she blames herself and the only thing that will help her keep her mind off what she did(n't) do is a crusade against the site.
I can only hope they find what a helpful place this is. I was gonna ctb in march but didn't, no family intervention and I credit this site and members alot.
I'm furious how this place has been painted.
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The parents had bouncer at the funeral to prevent anyone from saying "saw this coming", "no surprise" or anything of that ilk. If only they could install a bouncer in reality to prevent anything that didn't fit their carefully-crafted family vision.
Wow. That shocked me. It probably shouldn't but it did.
Curious as to the source for that information. Do you have and would you be willing to share?
It reminds me of when my high school boyfriend committed suicide. His mother immediately spread a different narrative, which quickly got out in our school community that same day or the next, put in spoiler:
He suicided at home by shotgun. His parents said the case was a brain clot. My father, who was a homicide detective and missed being called to the scene by 10 minutes, as he was next in line for a case but hadn't yet arrived to work, said two things: people usually come up with a reasonable cause they find acceptable and spread that story, and that of course there was the appearance of blood clots at the scene.
As mentioned in the spoiler, one of the two things my father the homicide detective said to me (the second is graphic and relates only to the anecdote) is that people usually come up with a reasonable cause they find acceptable for the suicide and spread that story.
Changing and controlling the narrative says to me that the one spinning it is in a state of magical thinking, which is an emotional survival skill until one is able to accept what happened, and/or that one desires to hide and protect unpalatable truth(s) about themselves and/or the one who suicided. In the case of self-protection by a parent*, that indicates to me they have cause for self-blame, such as a history of abuse and other unjustifiable efforts to control. It is also self-protection to hide anything about the person's motivating actions that one finds unacceptable and embarassing, especially if they believe it will be perceived by others as refelcting on them, whether as a parent or somoene else close to the person*.
With Shawn's parents and family (the family member who posted on @Kakabushi's goodbye thread is previously quoted in this thread), it seems very important to them for people to hear that they were working very hard to find and have Shawn participate in effective treatment, and that SS derailed their efforts.
If only this community didn't exist, they believe their efforts would have prevailed, which is magical thinking that they had power over Shawn, her well-being, and her actions. Even if they come to accept the truth that they did not, they have gone to such efforts to repeatedly double-down on their narrative, it would take an incredible amount of inner strength and power to admit error and back out of the fight they began and are so heavily invested in. It's human behavior to do so, as matters of justifying and continuing the efforts to gain power over a situation beyond their control, and/or saving face. It is another form of self-protection, no matter how high the costs. Literally, someone could die as a result, and they would still publicly maintain their stance -- no matter the issue, not just about suicide, and not just about Shawn's.
*significant other, friend, relative, employer, co-worker, etc.
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I use to work in a warehouse unrelated to Amazon and it was pretty much like slave labor; I can only imagine that Amazon is worse because of the demand for fast shipping. I've always been suicidal but working in that warehouse made me want to hang myself on the spot after every shift.
I highly doubt wage slavery is the only reason she committed suicide though.
Wow. That shocked me. It probably shouldn't but it did.
Curious as to the source for that information. Do you have and would you be willing to share?
It reminds me of when my high school boyfriend committed suicide. His mother immediately spread a different narrative, which quickly got out in our school community that same day or the next, put in spoiler:
He suicided at home by shotgun. His parents said the case was a brain clot. My father, who was a homicide detective and missed being called to the scene by 10 minutes, as he was next in line for a case but hadn't yet arrived to work, said two things: people usually come up with a reasonable cause they find acceptable and spread that story, and that of course there was the appearance of blood clots at the scene.
As mentioned in the spoiler, one of the two things my father the homicide detective said to me (the second is graphic and relates only to the anecdote) is that people usually come up with a reasonable cause they find acceptable for the suicide and spread that story.
Changing and controlling the narrative says to me that the one spinning it is in a state of magical thinking, which is an emotional survival skill until one is able to accept what happened, and/or that one desires to hide and protect unpalatable truth(s) about themselves and/or the one who suicided. In the case of self-protection by a parent*, that indicates to me they have cause for self-blame, such as a history of abuse and other unjustifiable efforts to control. It is also self-protection to hide anything about the person's motivating actions that one finds unacceptable and embarassing, especially if they believe it will be perceived by others as refelcting on them, whether as a parent or somoene else close to the person*.
With Shawn's parents and family (the family member who posted on @Kakabuki's goodbye thread is previously quoted in this thread), it seems very important to them for people to hear that they were working very hard to find and have Shawn participate in effective treatment, and that SS derailed their efforts.
If only this community didn't exist, they believe their efforts would have prevailed, which is magical thinking that they had power over Shawn, her well-being, and her actions. Even if they come to accept the truth that they did not, they have gone to such efforts to repeatedly double-down on their narrative, it would take an incredible amount of inner strength and power to admit error and back out of the fight they began and are so heavily invested in. It's human behavior to do so, as matters of justifying and continuing the efforts to gain power over a situation beyond their control, and/or saving face. It is another form of self-protection, no matter how high the costs. Literally, someone could die as a result, and they would still publicly maintain their stance -- no matter the issue, not just about suicide, and not just about Shawn's.
*significant other, friend, relative, employer, co-worker, etc.
That is the problem, they have painted a reality in which they are in no way wrong. As you said they have to double down now, they've put too much effort into blaming us and not reflecting on what could have been done and why she came here. People don't seek this place to hang out, regardless of how much I do that most people come here to ctb. It's a last resort. The fact that she kept all this quiet is a testimony to how much she wanted to ctb, it is incredibly hard to do that. They wish they could control their daughter and force her to stay here against her will, that is just selfish imo.
This is the only place in the world I can talk about suicide. Even if I mention it to a doctor I would be locked in a mental ward for three days.
It never occurs to people to just let everyone make their own choice about if they want to be here or not.
Everyone feels entitled to impose their own will on other people about this most important aspect of self determination. Everyone assumes it's irrational to want to end your life.
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@GoodPersonEffed, that information was on the mother's FB page and then on some related one. First an announcement that people should stop saying things like "we saw that coming" to the mother because it's hurtful; later, when the date of the service was announced one of the relatives stated that people who expressed that sort of thing would be ejected.
It seemed to underscore how very out of touch their glossy version of the young woman was, and their ideas of trying to help her, as well as the their determination to remain in denial, by physical force if necessary.
I am sorry for them.
In the mother's early FB messages she was outraged that none of us had called 911. It took quite a while - well, longer than I expected - for it to sink in that no one here knew her daughter's name or whereabouts. This in connection with the fact that (as Shawn herself mentioned) her mother was just down the hall from her when she took the SN, plus a detail that came out in one of the mother's interviews - that it was early afternoon before she realized she hadn't seen her daughter.
That was dreadful, no two ways about it. With all her caring, invested proximity, she didn't realize ... or notice ... so why didn't internet acquaintances who had no idea where she lived do everything to save her? Why??
I am sorry for them.
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use to work in a warehouse unrelated to Amazon and it was pretty much like slave labor; I can only imagine that Amazon is worse because of the demand for fast shipping. I've always been suicidal but working in that warehouse made me want to hang myself on the spot after every shift.
I highly doubt wage slavery is the only reason she committed suicide though.
Just to clarify, she called it slavery, but not wage slavery. (See quotes below). There are a lot of things that can make a job feel like slavery, even at a higher rate of pay. When one is disempowered and has no agency, what pay level changes that perception of being owned and controlled? It seems from her second post I quoted here that she felt trapped in the work situation and couldn't see how to escape from it, except to quit without giving notice, and then seeing no other option but to end her life. I wonder what shit hole she was talking about having to be a slave in order to survive. Earth?
Anyhow, I hope I didn't come across here as being pedantic or negating the members I quoted. I value clarity and the most accurate information possible, and that's about me, and not at all about trying to find fault. I think it furthers any discussion to explore different angles and see what applies and what does not. And heck, since some of Shawn's posts are still available, she can kind of jump in the conversation a bit. If there's an afterlife, I hope she doesn't still have social anxiety and feels upset about this comment or anything else that's happened since her death. I hope that death brought her peace, seems like she was seeking that or something akin to it.
The main reason I want to kill myself is because of work. It sucks so much that I have to be a slave in order to survive in this shit hole. I'm thinking of ctb in a few days and I'm not going to work today or ever again. I'm not even going to let them know. Fuck them. Fuck work. I'd actually mostly enjoy life if I was rich. Fuck this world.
That poor young woman got her wish. It wasn't an idle wish or irrational but made with determination, deliberation and planning. It sounds to me like it was rational. Why can't people, even her family, realize that it was HER decision and not anyone else's to make for her if she continued to live or not?
I guess you have to be in that kind of a predicament yourself to understand it. I admit I used to go along with the idea too of wanting to stop everyone from committing suicide, until I finally found I couldn't stand being here anymore myself.
They should think about the other ways she could have done it which would have been worse.
Clearly people will go to any lengths to end their lives anyway so if that's the case it's the humane thing to do to at least let them do it without violence.
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@GoodPersonEffed, that information was on the mother's FB page and then on some related one. First an announcement that people should stop saying things like "we saw that coming" to the mother because it's hurtful; later, when the date of the service was announced one of the relatives stated that people who expressed that sort of thing would be ejected.
It seemed to underscore how very out of touch their glossy version of the young woman was, and their ideas of trying to help her, as well as the their determination to remain in denial, by physical force if necessary.
Thanks for responding. Did either Shawn's mother or the relative specifically say a bouncer had been hired? Or how physical force would be used to eject someone?
Thanks for responding. Did either Shawn's mother or the relative specifically say a bouncer had been hired? Or how physical force would be used to eject someone?
They didn't say a bouncer had been hired; maybe one/some of the males in the family were ready to take on that role, or maybe it's a service a mortuary (if that's what they're called these days) can provide? I reckon they hoped the announcement would be enough to ensure people would refrain from saying stuff like that.
But it was jarring to read that multiple people were expressing that idea, and that the mother was that unready to accept that the young woman had been clearly suicidal for some time.
They didn't say a bouncer had been hired; maybe one/some of the males in the family were ready to take on that role, or maybe it's a service a mortuary (if that's what they're called these days) can provide? I reckon they hoped the announcement would be enough to ensure people would refrain from saying stuff like that.
But it was jarring to read that multiple people were expressing that idea, and that the mother was that unready to accept that the young woman had been clearly suicidal for some time.
Emotions can run high and out of control at funerals. I would reasonably assume that funeral homes make many interventions and have staff trained to do so.
Thanks for clarifying they didn't say bouncer. They try to smear us with slander, unproven allegations and taking things out of context, I just have a personal preference for keeping the side of the street I'm on clean if I can help it. Gives them less fuel for fighting dirty if we can't be perceived as doing the same, and I care because I'm part of the "we."
I hope you take no offense. Absolutely none is intended, no ill will whatsoever.
I think it's a good time for me to THANK the site owners for standing up for us and our right to choose! This site has ironically been a "life saver" for me as I'm too much of a bitch to do it with a g*n. I have a right to choose and I choose to ctb! It's not like we had a choice to be born in this shithole. It's like we're born without a choice in the matter, then told you better like it, and if you don't we're gonna drug you up until you do, and if you still don't like it we will lock you up involuntarily and potentially indefinitely. I think people are so fucking selfish sometimes omg!!!
Yea, like walking around in a medically induced coma all drugged up on pharmaceutical pills is the way to go?!? These people in this world are all batshit CRAZY!!!! And they say were are the ones who need help??? This just pisses me off! I read her posts and I agree with her 100% I feel like a wage slave at my job too!! I feel offended by the news article because it gives sites that promote a right to choose a bad rap meanwhile governments across the world can wage war, kill, and pillage with reckless abandon in the name of "liberty and freedom".
I see the matrix for what it is, and I took the red pill long ago. Choice begins in the mind of an individual and the only question is is the execution of that choice going to be done with dignity or with pain and suffering. I love this site and the people that are members. I feel like we are a big family. I feel like I can share things that I would NEVER be able to share even with my biological family. Anyway, sorry for venting but thx again for the owners of this site for going to bat to uphold the right of choice. Salute!
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Emotions can run high and out of control at funerals. I would reasonably assume that funeral homes make many interventions and have staff trained to do so.
Thanks for clarifying they didn't say bouncer. They try to smear us with slander, unproven allegations and taking things out of context, I just have a personal preference for keeping the side of the street I'm on clean if I can help it. Gives them less fuel for fighting dirty if we can't be perceived as doing the same, and I care because I'm part of the "we."
I hope you take no offense. Absolutely none is intended, no ill will whatsoever.
None taken - especially after the lengthy brouhaha over the difference between a "life coach" and a "wellness counsellor" or whatever it was.
In fact I'm not sure they didn't use the word "bouncer"; when I answered your question in the negative I meant they didn't say they'd *hired* a bouncer. But they may not have used the word "bouncer" either. The relative made it clear that remarks like "saw that coming" were not allowed and that someone would be there to enforce that policy.
I think it's a good time for me to THANK the site owners for standing up for us and our right to choose! This site has ironically been a "life saver" for me as I'm too much of a bitch to do it with a g*n. I have a right to choose and I choose to ctb! It's not like we had a choice to be born in this shithole. It's like we're born without a choice in the matter, then told you better like it, and if you don't we're gonna drug you up until you do, and if you still don't like it we will lock you up involuntarily and potentially indefinitely. I think people are so fucking selfish sometimes omg!!!
Yea, like walking around in a medically induced coma all drugged up on pharmaceutical pills is the way to go?!? These people in this world are all batshit CRAZY!!!! And they say were are the ones who need help??? This just pisses me off! I read her posts and I agree with her 100% I feel like a wage slave at my job too!! I feel offended by the news article because it gives sites that promote a right to choose a bad rap meanwhile governments across the world can wage war, kill, and pillage with reckless abandon in the name of "liberty and freedom".
I see the matrix for what it is, and I took the red pill long ago. Choice begins in the mind of an individual and the only question is is the execution of that choice going to be done with dignity or with pain and suffering. I love this site and the people that are members. I feel like we are a big family. I feel like I can share things that I would NEVER be able to share even with my biological family. Anyway, sorry for venting but thx again for the owners of this site for going to bat to uphold the right of choice. Salute!
Regular people don't want to spend their life working much less people with physical/mental issues like on this website. The issue isn't the pay, it's that you have to spend 40-60 hours a week of your waking life just to exist and you're miserable pretty much that entire time anyways. I lugged around 20-100lb stuff all day in 90 degree weather for $10 an hour. I'm pretty sure Jeff Bezos doesn't even allow you pee breaks without getting a write-up.
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ithappens, Pineapplecrown, Bct and 2 others
Regular people don't want to spend their life working much less people with physical/mental issues like on this website. The issue isn't the pay, it's that you have to spend 40-60 hours a week of your waking life just to exist and you're miserable pretty much that entire time anyways. I lugged around 20-100lb stuff all day in 90 degree weather for $10 an hour. I'm pretty sure Jeff Bezos doesn't even allow you pee breaks without getting a write-up.
@GoodPersonEffed, that information was on the mother's FB page and then on some related one. First an announcement that people should stop saying things like "we saw that coming" to the mother because it's hurtful; later, when the date of the service was announced one of the relatives stated that people who expressed that sort of thing would be ejected.
It seemed to underscore how very out of touch their glossy version of the young woman was, and their ideas of trying to help her, as well as the their determination to remain in denial, by physical force if necessary.
I am sorry for them.
In the mother's early FB messages she was outraged that none of us had called 911. It took quite a while - well, longer than I expected - for it to sink in that no one here knew her daughter's name or whereabouts. This in connection with the fact that (as Shawn herself mentioned) her mother was just down the hall from her when she took the SN, plus a detail that came out in one of the mother's interviews - that it was early afternoon before she realized she hadn't seen her daughter.
That was dreadful, no two ways about it. With all her caring, invested proximity, she didn't realize ... or notice ... so why didn't internet acquaintances who had no idea where she lived do everything to save her? Why??
I'm not challenging you because I haven't kept up with this story from the very beginning. I didn't even know who Shawn was until I became a member here on the forum. I don't think her mom or step dad were outraged that no one had called 911. They don't seem like dumb people, so I don't think they would have expected us to know where their daughter was and their daughters name. I remember Shawn's mother mentioning that she was just down the hall from where Shawn was. Shawn shared here on the forum that she was "fucking terrified" and the mother was outraged that no one had tried to talk to her out of this act and suggest her to talk to someone instead of taking her life.
Again, I'm not challenging you. I only started looking into this when I saw that they were going against this site. Maybe they did mention the whole 911 thing, but like I said, I started following this a little late.
Yes,the media tends to move on pretty quickly,and they don't get the same exposure.
In the case of Callie Lewis,failings of the NHS were cited.
Callie's Mum was also calling for action against SS,then,nothing.
The "NHS failed" because Callie wanted to die,and was most likely resolute in that desire.
The information needed could have been found elsewhere,but Callie would have been all alone,with nowhere to express herself,and be with people who understood.
“GOOD luck! We all wish you a swift travel.” “May you find peace my friend.” These are some of the final messages sent from users of a “damaging” online suicide forum to a young British woman who e…
I'm not challenging you because I haven't kept up with this story from the very beginning. I didn't even know who Shawn was until I became a member here on the forum. I don't think her mom or step dad were outraged that no one had called 911. They don't seem like dumb people, so I don't think they would have expected us to know where their daughter was and their daughters name. I remember Shawn's mother mentioning that she was just down the hall from where Shawn was. Shawn shared here on the forum that she was "fucking terrified" and the mother was outraged that no one had tried to talk to her out of this act and suggest her to talk to someone instead of taking her life.
Again, I'm not challenging you. I only started looking into this when I saw that they were going against this site. Maybe they did mention the whole 911 thing, but like I said, I started following this a little late.
@ceasetobreathe03, I promise I'm not making it up: They did indeed express outrage that no one here called the police or 911. They seemed not to consider the fact that no one here knows other members' names and addresses. Or maybe they thought the police could track someone down if notified. Maybe they aren't dumb but just naive and/or in shock. Or maybe they aren't the brightest bulbs around; that's allowed, normal, widespread even.
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Yes,the media tends to move on pretty quickly,and they don't get the same exposure.
In the case of Callie Lewis,failings of the NHS were cited.
Callie's Mum was also calling for action against SS,then,nothing.
The "NHS failed" because Callie wanted to die,and was most likely resolute in that desire.
The information needed could have been found elsewhere,but Callie would have been all alone,with nowhere to express herself,and be with people who understood.
“GOOD luck! We all wish you a swift travel.” “May you find peace my friend.” These are some of the final messages sent from users of a “damaging” online suicide forum to a young British woman who e…
I saw that documentary and fortunately it does focus on the NHS.
On a side note, it makes me wonder if the charcoal method of exit might be preferred instead of hanging. One gets the impression that she passed away peacefully in a field, inside her tent.
I saw that documentary and fortunately it does focus on the NHS.
On a side note, it makes me wonder if the charcoal method of exit might be preferred instead of hanging. One gets the impression that she passed away peacefully in a field, inside her tent.
Yes,Callie went via CO method.
There is loads of info on the forums.
Would have loved to have mastered that one.
Much more easy to pull off in a car or tent,I think.
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