Discussion Every parent is responsible for examining the role they played in their child's suicide.

[Tom9999]

If I kill myself, it will be my responsibility and my responsibility only. They are abusive bastards that I hate with all of my hearth, but their role in the actual act would be minimal. Sure enough, they will maybe feel guilt but I do not give a fuck about that.

I'm sorry to hear your parents were abusive bastards. Growing up with them must've been hell. That totally sucks!

 

[Blackjack]

You're like a dog with a bone here Sinister. I'm a parent & I'm not offended by his post. While I hear you and believe you & others who say their parents bear no responsibility if you choose to kill yourself, I think the OP's point is that all parents need to look within if/when their child does because I think more often than not, parents do play a role in their child's decision.

 

[Stan]

I think the title of the thread is a little different to the questions outlined in the first post by the OP. The title is called "Every parent is responsible for examining the role they played in their child's suicide" which I can relate to being both a child of two people and a parent of three. However, the questions posted afterwards seems more like an autobiographical discussion that they would like with their own parents rather than be a set of questions that authorities or a forensic psychiatrist would actually use in an interview with people who just lost their child. I can relate to "how did I miss the signs?" or "why didn't we have the trust between us to talk about depression?". So I am agreeing with the principle completely, I think the example questions in the original post may have given it a particular slant which I can respect those that wanted to defend their viewpoint.

 

[Blackjack]

I think, if nothing else, OP's OP is intended specifically for Shawn Shatto's parents since we know they (or their people) stalk this site on the regular and they (of all people) should look within instead of placing the blame here, which is completely unjustified.

 

[Stan]

I think, if nothing else, OP's OP is intended specifically for Shawn Shatto's parents since we know they (or their people) stalk this site on the regular and they (of all people) should look within instead of placing the blame here, which is completely unjustified.

If we take an adversarial approach to those outside of this forum, then we are making a bad situation worse. Breaching our divide comes through education. We can see through this thread that when tempers get flared the topic gets lost in the resulting melee.

 

[Blackjack]

If we take an adversarial approach to those outside of this forum, then we are making a bad situation worse. Breaching our divide comes through education. We can see through this thread that when tempers get flared the topic gets lost in the resulting melee.

I don't disagree, however, Shawn's parents or their people don't want to be educated, they want someone to blame, and SS is it.

 

[Return2Dust]

My parents won't examine their role. This will reinforce their scapegoat narrative. There are those who hurt and reach outside for something, anything, to blame. It removes any personal guilt they might feel.

 

[Tom9999]

... the questions posted afterwards seems more like an autobiographical discussion that they would like with their own parents rather than be a set of questions that authorities or a forensic psychiatrist would actually use in an interview with people who just lost their child. I can relate to "how did I miss the signs?" or "why didn't we have the trust between us to talk about depression?"...

The questions I posted are indeed forceful and require a disciplined self-examination. And they are applicable to any parent/child relationship.

They are hard questions for any parent because they turn the focus off of the usual area of inquiry - "How did I help my child?" - to an often forbidden one - "How did I harm my child?"

Ask any parent "Are you the perfect parent?"

They'll say "Well, of course not - no parent is perfect!"

Parents and children often say this to avoid the pain of self-examination by glossing over the details of that imperfection.

But try this.

The next time you hear that, ask them this:

"Interesting. But tell me - where have you been imperfect? How have you harmed your child's development? Give me an example..."

Every parent has been imperfect. It's impossible not to have been.

But the long-term results of that "imperfect treatment" range from the banal to the tragic.

When a child commits suicide, it's the parents responsibility to examine the role their "imperfect treatment" played by asking themselves hardball questions like the ones I included.

 

[Stan]

The questions I posted are indeed forceful and require a disciplined self-examination. And they are applicable to any parent/child relationship.

They are hard questions for any parent because they turn the focus off of the usual area of inquiry - "How did I help my child?" - to an often forbidden one - "How did I harm my child?"

Ask any parent "Are you the perfect parent?"

They'll say "Well, of course not - no parent is perfect!"

Parents and cbildren often say this to avoid the pain of self-examination by glossing over the details of that imperfection.

But try this.

The next time you hear that, ask them this:

"Interesting. But tell me - where have you been imperfect? How have you harmed your child's development? Give me an example..."

Every parent has been imperfect. It's impossible not to have been.

But the long-term results of that "imperfect treatment" range from the banal to the tragic.

When a child commits suicide, it's the parents responsibility to examine the role their "imperfect tteatment" played by asking themselves hardball questions like the ones I included.

I see where you are coming from Tom, but 'soft' questions that rely on the respondent to answer against an empirical measurement of 'good parenting' is nigh on impossible. I could be the worst parent in the world in the viewpoint of others if they saw my interaction with the kids, but I see myself as excellent and the same applies visa versa. Plus people maybe in denial and not accept they were to blame - or go to the other extreme and become depressed about the situation when actually they were 0% of the cause. Investigations and self reflection is very useful, as long as it doesn't turn into a witch hunt.

 

[Tom9999]

I think, if nothing else, OP's OP is intended specifically for Shawn Shatto's parents since we know they (or their people) stalk this site on the regular and they (of all people) should look within instead of placing the blame here, which is completely unjustified.

Yes. Their actions motivated me to write this post. But I feel the questions I posted are ones every parent - child suicide or not - would benefit from asking themselves regularly.

 

[Stan]

Yes. Their actions motivated me to write this post. But I feel the questions I posted are ones every parent - child suicide or not - would benefit from asking themselves regularly.

If it was turned into something proactive it would be better. To be honest, as parents you get no level of education to spot signs of anything related to stress, depression and suicide. I actually had a level of training with work and thought how useful this would be for the whole populous.

 

[Tom9999]

My parents won't examine their role. This will reinforce their scapegoat narrative. There are those who hurt and reach outside for something, anything, to blame. It removes any personal guilt they might feel.

That really sucks. Being forced into the scapegoat role is cruel, unfair, and helps no one. And it's a very painful role to be in. I'm sorry to hear they are acting this way.

 

[Tom9999]

I see where you are coming from Tom, but 'soft' questions that rely on the respondent to answer against an empirical measurement of 'good parenting' is nigh on impossible. I could be the worst parent in the world in the viewpoint of others if they saw my interaction with the kids, but I see myself as excellent and the same applies visa versa. Plus people maybe in denial and not accept they were to blame - or go to the other extreme and become depressed about the situation when actually they were 0% of the cause. Investigations and self reflection is very useful, as long as it doesn't turn into a witch hunt.

I absolutely agree. The ability for a parent to examine themselves and their role in their child's upbringing, and for that examining to result in an objectively accurate and realistic analysis - these are indeed two different skill sets.

 

[Cleopatra123]

Where did you fail to give your child support, understanding, acceptance, and empathy?

How did you fail to accept your child for who they where?

When did you exploit your child, at their expense, and perhaps cruelly and viciously, as a means of selfishly fulfilling your own needs?

When did you let your discomfort get in the way of accepting and discussing your child's feelings?

When did you shame, ridicule, or insult them for who they were or wanted to be?

And so on.

Notice none of these questions start with "Did you...?" That would make it too easy to turn away by saying "Never!"

But they all stem from the one necessary question:

"How did I fail my child?"

Exploring this question is not about diminishing your suffering.

It's about taking responsibility for how you treated the being YOU CHOSE to bring into this world, and who was, without their consent, placed under you and forced to submit to your words, actions, and governance.

You owe them this.

We are not ALL here as children of a dysfunctional family life. And in these days, diagnoses of psychological disorders in children cannot always be explained by that. Many of these disease are genetic, like schizophrenia, and are manifesting more and more in younger and younger children. In addition, the world is becoming a more and more toxic environmentally: toxins in food, in the air, by the increasing amount of electricity we live enclosed in. As a nurse for many years, I'd never heard of autism, until the last two decades. And in these days, it's appalling to see the gross incompetence of the medical society, in general. In my life, I was shocked to hear my mother ask for a hug when I was 16, as I never remembered one before: but it gave me no diagnoses, and I lived the good and bad for a very long time, grateful for the good. Do you deny people who are suffering physical illnesses without hope of waking one day to feeling well, to meaning, isolated, confined, deteriorating without hope the right to end their misery?

 

[Cleopatra123]

We are not ALL here as children of a dysfunctional family life. And in these days, diagnoses of psychological disorders in children cannot always be explained by that. Many of these disease are genetic, like schizophrenia, and are manifesting more and more in y

We are not ALL here as children of a dysfunctional family life. And in these days, diagnoses of psychological disorders in children cannot always be explained by that. Many of these disease are genetic, like schizophrenia, and are manifesting more and more in younger and younger children. In addition, the world is becoming a more and more toxic environmentally: toxins in food, in the air, by the increasing amount of electricity we live enclosed in. As a nurse for many years, I'd never heard of autism, until the last two decades. And in these days, it's appalling to see the gross incompetence of the medical society, in general. In my life, I was shocked to hear my mother ask for a hug when I was 16, as I never remembered one before: but it gave me no diagnoses, and I lived the good and bad for a very long time, grateful for the good. Do you deny people who are suffering physical illnesses without hope of waking one day to feeling well, to meaning, isolated, confined, deteriorating without hope the right to end their misery?

To be frank, I was transferred to this post by mistake, thinking to speak of something else. I thing a lot of parents today come from a time when drugs and sex were rampant, peer pressure became so oppressive, that even positive messages at home have been difficult for the young mind and parents are struggling with confused values. Rarely, even 50 years ago were people, and parents, perfect: but the world was simpler, at home and in the world. Parents have responsibilities to do their best if they have children: the question in our culture today, is what is parents' best, when they, too, are suffering.

 

[AlePizarnik]

I blame my parents. They decided to play Russian roulette with my life and took the chances.
I don't like being alive and I don't like my body. I feel trapped. I don't enjoy anything.
I don't talk to my parents anymore and I don't hate them per se. I realized it's useless. But they were extremely reckless to procreate and throw me into this cruel world where they knew for sure that I would suffer and die

 

[MeltingHeart]

If I succeed, mine would have played a huge part in this choice, sure we all grow up and can choose how to live our life and take responsibility for things that happen in our life, but if those early years are highly abusive (mentally or physically) and/ or very neglectful/ unloving when you are an innocent and yr mind, character, sense of self worth is forming-the life long impact can be huge- i know for a fact that the way I was treated by the two people in the world that are meant to make you feel safe, secure, valued and loved had impacted on every single aspect of my adult life-depsite using every ounce of inner strength and loads of determination to not let them ruin my life, to try and be strong, positive and forward looking-the legacy of those early years was too great-causing me to eventually have a severe breakdown in adult life: which is why I am now on here.& strongly want to ctb. Will always be left thinking why, why, why in gods name did they have a child- no one made them do that ya know, we live in modern times, contraception was available ffs! so strange. And to suffer the consequences of their bad choice/ mistake feels so so cruel.

I blame my parents. They decided to play Russian roulette with my life and took the chances.
I don't like being alive and I don't like my body. I feel trapped. I don't enjoy anything.
I don't talk to my parents anymore and I don't hate them per se. I realized it's useless. But they were extremely reckless to procreate and throw me into this cruel world where they knew for sure that I would suffer and die

what do you meant they played Rssn Rltte with yr life?