Venting Even the pro-lifers who claim “life sucks” insist on living (coping, delusion, survival instinct)

[TAW122]

This is something that isn't really surprising and at the same time, it is quite infuriating. For those who are cognizant of how bad life is (apparently they are self-aware enough to recognize that sentience is full of harm and it sucks!), yet they still insist on living and enduring through the torture and suffering that is part of sentience itself! I believe that it is partly due to the survival instinct that is evolved over time and of course, societal influence which is not limited to: family, peers, government, media, and/or other influence, etc.

To elaborate a bit more on this thread, I suppose all living organisms have an evolved biological mechanism (the survival instinct) that makes it difficult for one to leave the world full of suffering and all the ills that follow with being sentient. Of course though, there are people who do manage to overcome their 'biological mechanism' such that they are able to go through with CTB, but that biological mechanism has been one of the biggest, if not the biggest (for some) impediment towards one seeking to be free. Then of course, one has to contend with the societal pressures from one's peers, family, loved ones, and of course, the State and the institutions surrounding it (education system, financial system, the workforce, etc.) which don't make it easy, but rather easily indoctrinate one to choose life despite it being full of harm and nothing but suffering.

So back to the point of this thread, with regards to pro-lifers who acknowledge and have enough self-awareness to recognize that "life sucks". I suppose my frustration lies in the fact that even though one acknowledges and recognizes how life sucks and how it cannot be a pleasant experience for everyone, they still insist on that sentience is something that is superior. It's as though the people who do say that are "coping" really hard and of course, trying to project their view of life onto everyone else! Ultimately, if they wish to cope and endure all the hardships that life and sentience has to offer, they can choose to do so, but the imposition and projection of their values onto those who don't agree or wish to leave is just wrong. That is never acceptable!

 

[Tokugawa_Yoshinobu]

They view life worth living for it's own sake while others may think life is less important living one that's worth a thing. Why do so many often very secular and non-religious people adhere to the idea of inherent worth of life when they already reject the idea of god or higher purpose in the universe... oh wait a thing I often see is that atheists abandon god but not his morality and value judgement.

Sorry for the ramble but I think this is just so inconsequential and a convenient type of thinking and this post by you made me come up with more thoughts on this subject.

 

[FuneralCry]

I'm always disgusted by those pro-life people who insist that others must delaying their inevitable fate no matter what even know none of us consented to this existence and aren't obligated to continue. In my case I'd always see it as preferable to not exist especially as there are no disadvantages to not existing and I hate how that isn't seen as a valid way to feel, nobody should be forced to suffer in this undesirable existence.

 

[iusedtobehappy]

This is something that isn't really surprising and at the same time, it is quite infuriating. For those who are cognizant of how bad life is (apparently they are self-aware enough to recognize that sentience is full of harm and it sucks!), yet they still insist on living and enduring through the torture and suffering that is part of sentience itself! I believe that it is partly due to the survival instinct that is evolved over time and of course, societal influence which is not limited to: family, peers, government, media, and/or other influence, etc.

To elaborate a bit more on this thread, I suppose all living organisms have an evolved biological mechanism (the survival instinct) that makes it difficult for one to leave the world full of suffering and all the ills that follow with being sentient. Of course though, there are people who do manage to overcome their 'biological mechanism' such that they are able to go through with CTB, but that biological mechanism has been one of the biggest, if not the biggest (for some) impediment towards one seeking to be free. Then of course, one has to contend with the societal pressures from one's peers, family, loved ones, and of course, the State and the institutions surrounding it (education system, financial system, the workforce, etc.) which don't make it easy, but rather easily indoctrinate one to choose life despite it being full of harm and nothing but suffering.

So back to the point of this thread, with regards to pro-lifers who acknowledge and have enough self-awareness to recognize that "life sucks". I suppose my frustration lies in the fact that even though one acknowledges and recognizes how life sucks and how it cannot be a pleasant experience for everyone, they still insist on that sentience is something that is superior. It's as though the people who do say that are "coping" really hard and of course, trying to project their view of life onto everyone else! Ultimately, if they wish to cope and endure all the hardships that life and sentience has to offer, they can choose to do so, but the imposition and projection of their values onto those who don't agree or wish to leave is just wrong. That is never acceptable!

I for one can't stand hypocrisy and that is what they are projecting most of the time. I watched this last night and I became enraged. I mean, really pissed. On one hand, he addresses suicide and tells his audience that they will have to repeat their lives over until the time of their natural death. Doesn't matter if there is mental illness involved, only the physical counts. No one chooses mental illness any more than they choose physical illness. So, when people are tormented by themselves and don't want to have to take drugs for the rest of their lives to live, the only option is mental illness until they drop and only then can you avoid repeating your mental illness until you drop again? He goes on to say that is done to show you the pain you have caused loved ones by your suicide. What if you don't have loved ones? What if the only people left on this earth are the loved ones who yelled at you after your attempt or said "thanks a lot!" or said "I'm shopping, I don't have time for you"? Do you still have to repeat your life, so they can blow you off again? Just asking.

Second, is the part when he says the soul enters the body, not at conception, but only at birth. BS. If one has ever seen an ultrasound, that person would know that a baby's personality begins to show very early on. Without a soul, a body cannot exist, nor brain activity. There is very clear brain activity even in the womb.

I defend babies in the womb and animals because they don't CHOOSE euthanasia or abortion. A rational grown human being, even with mental illness, is another story.



They want it both ways.

 

[mortuarymary]

Of course we want it both ways.
i want to live but i know I can't last forever if I have another bad bout of Covid or bipolar.
Give folks choices.

 

[Ligottian]

Some even go as far as to say the "suck" is some kind of challenge that will make you stronger. What a crock.

 

[mortuarymary]

Some even go as far as to say the "suck" is some kind of challenge that will make you stronger. What a crock.

Suck?

 

[TAW122]

They view life worth living for it's own sake while others may think life is less important living one that's worth a thing. Why do so many often very secular and non-religious people adhere to the idea of inherent worth of life when they already reject the idea of god or higher purpose in the universe... oh wait a thing I often see is that atheists abandon god but not his morality and value judgement.

Sorry for the ramble but I think this is just so inconsequential and a convenient type of thinking and this post by you made me come up with more thoughts on this subject.

Interesting and it's maddening how even those who are "atheists" claim that life is good, if anything, they should be more on board with pro-choice values than pro-life values as almost any argument that values life itself is religious in nature rather than based on objectivity.

I'm always disgusted by those pro-life people who insist that others must delaying their inevitable fate no matter what even know none of us consented to this existence and aren't obligated to continue. In my case I'd always see it as preferable to not exist especially as there are no disadvantages to not existing and I hate how that isn't seen as a valid way to feel, nobody should be forced to suffer in this undesirable existence.

Of course, and pro-lifers are terrible not just for their lack of insight and empathy, but also wanting people to embrace suffering with them. They are a hivemind of tormentors, similar to crabs in a bucket.

I for one can't stand hypocrisy and that is what they are projecting most of the time. I watched this last night and I became enraged. I mean, really pissed. On one hand, he addresses suicide and tells his audience that they will have to repeat their lives over until the time of their natural death. Doesn't matter if there is mental illness involved, only the physical counts. No one chooses mental illness any more than they choose physical illness. So, when people are tormented by themselves and don't want to have to take drugs for the rest of their lives to live, the only option is mental illness until they drop and only then can you avoid repeating your mental illness until you drop again? He goes on to say that is done to show you the pain you have caused loved ones by your suicide. What if you don't have loved ones? What if the only people left on this earth are the loved ones who yelled at you after your attempt or said "thanks a lot!" or said "I'm shopping, I don't have time for you"? Do you still have to repeat your life, so they can blow you off again? Just asking.

Second, is the part when he says the soul enters the body, not at conception, but only at birth. BS. If one has ever seen an ultrasound, that person would know that a baby's personality begins to show very early on. Without a soul, a body cannot exist, nor brain activity. There is very clear brain activity even in the womb.

I defend babies in the womb and animals because they don't CHOOSE euthanasia or abortion. A rational grown human being, even with mental illness, is another story.



They want it both ways.

Yeah it's infuriating when pro-lifers want to have their cake and eat it at the same time. It frustrates me immensely when they couldn't see their logical inconsistency (or if they do, they blatantly ignore it and pretend they are sound and consistent). Regardless of whether they want to have their cake and eat it at the same time, the universe and nature doesn't care, and will present whatever consequence it may be. If someone is desperate enough, failure or success, they will almost instinctively go and hence there are always going to be those who failed attempts or end up with barbaric means of going out. Basically, yes if pro-lifers want to cry about the aftermath, then they reap what they sow by disallowing a peaceful, reliable means to exit as well as supporting paternalistic, invasive policies that intrude on suicidal people.

Of course we want it both ways.
i want to live but i know I can't last forever if I have another bad bout of Covid or bipolar.
Give folks choices.

Sorry to hear that you feel this way and I hope you find peace in whatever decision you make.

Some even go as far as to say the "suck" is some kind of challenge that will make you stronger. What a crock.

Indeed, and I hate the phrase "embrace the suck" when it comes to life itself.

Suck?

I think he is referring to life/sentience "sucking" meaning that it's awful.