NSFW Euthanization of what will someday be the severely anhedonic at infancy. Similar to Nazi Germany's T4 program, except extended to babies.

[Imaginos]

Before the Nazis began exterminating Jews/Roma they first started out on culling the severely mentally ill, or those they deemed posed no useful benefit to society. Yes, it's barbaric and tramples all over human rights and all that sort of crap, but honestly, I personally wouldn't have minded being executed. Not for the sake of society of course, since, as far as I'm concerned, society owes me everything possible to make my existence easier, whereas I don't owe it a god damn thing. Be that as it may, euthanization of the mentally ill, applied in the right way, could actually be one of the most merciful procedures ever.

Truth be told, if someone could've divined what my fate was going to ultimately be, as in living as a perpetually isolated/miserable hermit, then I'd much rather if they could've just executed me as a baby. It's an impossible thing to ever know one way or the other, which essentially makes the topic pointless, but assuming one could have known, then the only recourse from then on should've been a lethal injection. Nothing has justified or warranted my time spent on this planet. Other people might have their little schmaltzy stories about things that might've briefly made up for their rotten lives, but me? Nope. There hasn't been a single fucking thing of that nature that's ever happened to me, in even the tiniest degree, at all.

When it comes down to it, mental disabilities of this nature lead to an insanely low quality of life, regardless of whatever one's outward circumstances are. Such as whether you have a lot of money/support, or not. Even people with the most extreme physical disabilities still might posses strong minds/spirits, which allows them a good chance of coming to enjoy their lives. In my case, my mind/spirit are so insanely brittle and corrosive that it essentially means zero possibility I'll ever enjoy life, making my time here on this planet utterly self-defeating and pointless. If someone is never going to enjoy their life, such as coming to chronically suffer from anhedonic depression, then they really just ought to be killed, since there's essentially no use in them remaining alive at that point. I guess I'm only speaking for myself here, but I just wish I could've been euthanized as an infant to spare me what has otherwise been an utterly loathsome and unhappy existence that, I can rather confidently say, will never change for the better.

Even assuming the insanely low likelihood that it could, it'll never make up for the literal DECADES of pain, anxiety, misery, disappointment, boredom, and just all around general discomfort that I've had to suffer through. In other words, no amount of possible juice is worth that kind of squeeze and, in my case, my tongue's already long rotted away and fallen out of what might as well be at this point a flesh barren skull.

 

[watchingthewheels]

Do you really want the government to have THAT much power? The power to euthanize at birth? No thank you.

 

[Lupgevif]

A shame it is now too late for that.

 

[Belaya Noch]

Yes for euthanization. I share the point of view of my favourite philosopher Peter Singer. Here is an excerpt from his "Practical Ethics" (secondary translation from my language)

In chapter 4 we stated that the fact that a being is a human being, as a representative of the species Homo sapiens, is irrelevant regarding the ethics of euthanasia; rather, it is the qualities of rationality, autonomy and self-awareness that make the difference. Babies lack these traits. Therefore, killing them cannot be equated to killing a normal human being or some other self-aware beings. (...) The issue of ending the life of a disabled newborn infant is therefore quite complicated. Nevertheless, the main thesis is clear: killing a disabled infant is not morally equivalent to killing a person. Often times, it's not bad at all.

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

I'd prefer the government to freely distribute over the counter N.

 

[RainAndSadness]

I disagree. What you propose is a human rights violation. I support abortion to a certain extend and the right to die (assisted suicide) if it involves consenting adults but I don't support the government killing humans. There are plenty of depressed and suicidal people that still continue and try to make the best out of their life - and that's their right. This is a deeply personal decision. I don't like the idea of taking away the autonomy of humans.

 

[ClairyFairy]

I think about this situation all the time. I wish it was really because I never would have been born because my father and his father were both mentally ill. We practically live in a dictatorship already in the uk I'd be fine with that

 

[lofticries]

I'd prefer the government to have euthanasia clinics for the mentally ill, disabled, diseased, and old.

btw this is not me saying that you can't have a decent life with these problems. but I am saying those who can't should have a choice so long as they're an adult.

 

[watchingthewheels]

People who think that the government should distribute N, or have "euthanisia clinics"...for just how long do you think such would be "voluntary"? Like the government gives you a "choice"... Does "Never Again" mean nothing, today?

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence — it is force. Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." - Attributed to George Washington, unconfirmed quote

 

[Belaya Noch]

People who think that the government should distribute N, or have "euthanisia clinics"...for just how long do you think such would be "voluntary"? Like the government gives you a "choice"... Does "Never Again" mean nothing, today?

Excuse me, but your argument is a slippery slope manipulation. There's a qualitative difference between voluntary and non-voluntary euthanasia. You can "prove" anything using this argument.

 

[watchingthewheels]

I'd prefer the government to freely distribute over the counter N.

TANSTAAFL.
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch." - Robert Heinlein, THE MOON IS A HARSH MISTRESS

Excuse me, but your argument is a slippery slope manipulation. There's a qualitative difference between voluntary and non-voluntary euthanasia. You can "prove" anything using this argument.

Excuse me, but what part of "Never again" don't you get?
When it comes to government involvement with such things, It's always "voluntary", until it isn't.

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

People who think that the government should distribute N, or have "euthanisia clinics"...for just how long do you think such would be "voluntary"? Like the government gives you a "choice"... Does "Never Again" mean nothing, today?

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence — it is force. Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." - Attributed to George Washington, unconfirmed quote

As long as ending your life is a voluntary choice then I'm fine with it. I don't believe that the government should ever be directly involved as it should always be a personal choice to end your life. What the OP is suggesting would lead to abuse of power much like how religion and psychology have become so intertwined with the government to the point that they are allowed to deprive people freedom of choice.

 

[watchingthewheels]

What the OP is suggesting would lead to abuse of power much like how religion and psychology have become so intertwined with the government to the point that they are allowed to deprive people freedom of choice.

Thank you. Thomas Szasz warned us about the dangers of the abuses of "State Psychiatry" for a reason...

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

Thank you. Thomas Szasz warned us about the dangers of the abuses of "State Psychiatry" for a reason...

The therapeutic state :)

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

I instantly vibed with the general idea (since I would prefer to have been killed as a fetus, obviously) but I guess I would be against this in practice. As others have stated--just make sure everyone that wants to, gets to jump in a sarco and I'm good.

 

[watchingthewheels]

Then, you can say that abortion will become compulsory as well. Psychiatric treatment will become compulsory for all, since the state owns public clinics. Since, "when it comes to government involvement with such things, It's always "voluntary", until it isn't".

See Nazi Germany. See the Soviet Union. See China. See Margaret Sanger and her original racial genodical intent of Planned Parenthood. See the warnings of Thomas Szasz. See the consequences of "good intentions" and calls to sacrifices to "the greater good." History is rife with examples. You mock "slippery slope" arguments, when history is rife with examples of mudslides and avalanches...

 

[Superdeterminist]

It would have to be voluntary. There are probably anhedonic prolifers out there. Or people who want to die but stick around for personal reasons. Etc etc. The mind very complex.

 

[watchingthewheels]

In the history of human race, perhaps, one can find pathological outcomes for any kind of involvement of modern liberal democratic state in an analogical field. This is why I'm mocking slippery slope argument.

And I mock trust and faith in government's self-restraint in having that power.
And again, it ignores the central purpose of government; if it were truly voluntary, you wouldn't need the government to do it. Government IS force. If it's voluntary, get the government out of the way.

"Never again."

 

[mmoq]

And I mock trust and faith in government's self-restraint in having that power.
And again, it ignores the central purpose of government; if it were truly voluntary, you wouldn't need the government to do it. Government IS force. If it's voluntary, get the government out of the way.

"Never again."

WTF? give me a break if they giving you a Free N you would take, everyone plays bullshit enlightenment these days when the shit hit the fan nobody says no, there's no freedom in this world only the rich only who has money are free and if you don't have billions you don't matter you are bitch in this world and that's just it.

nothing is free so what, the research given to corporations are given to them for free, it's only bad if it's given to the non-rich, this world is full of shit, government is bad well cooperation are bad, they are fiefdom ruled by morons who have all the money in the world to hire people who think for them, this is world of scamer and the biggest ones are the richest so don't think if the government is gone that anything would change, this world is rotting by profit seeking junkies

 

[watchingthewheels]

WTF? give me a break if they giving you a Free N you would take, everyone plays bullshit enlightenment these days when the shit hit the fan nobody says no, there's no freedom in this world only the rich only who has money are free and if you don't have billions you don't matter you are bitch in this world and that's just it.

nothing is free so what, the research given to corporations are given to them for free, it's only bad if it's given to the non-rich, this world is full of shit, government is bad well cooperation are bad, they are fiefdom ruled by morons who have all the money in the world to hire people who think for them, this is world of scamer and the biggest ones are the richest so don't think if the government is gone that anything would change, this world is rotting by profit seeking junkies

It's not "Free" from the government, because where does the government get their money from? Governments don't produce, they expropriate.

And how many of these "shit hits the fan" are caused by governments themselves?
Acknowledging that is half the battle, right there...

"Who is John Galt?"

 

[mmoq]

It's not "Free" from the government, because where does the government get their money from? Governments don't produce, they expropriate.

And how many of these "shit hits the fan" are caused by governments themselves?
Acknowledging that is half the battle, right there...

"Who is John Galt?"

STFU, the same government you talking about is nothing but a shell for cooperation to do there shit for them, after decades of compromising it until it become laughingstock, nothing but a shell no substance, and you think that's gone gonna change anything, that's just pathetic fantasy look just get out and see the real world outside of your bubble.

 

[watchingthewheels]

STFU, the same government you talking about is nothing but a shell for cooperation to do there shit for them, after decades of compromising it until it become laughingstock, nothing but a shell no substance, and you think that's gone gonna change anything, that's just pathetic fantasy look just get out and see the real world outside of your bubble.

"STFU?" No.

 

[mmoq]

"STFU?" No

GoOd FoR yOu

 

[Fragile]

There are better ways.

You could start by educating people, to show them how horrible the lives of people with severe mental disorders, autism or even more severe disabilities can be. Then encourage them to undergo prenatal genetic counseling to ensure healthy people will be born. this could be achieves through tax breaks or other benefits, since healthy people don't hold back the population as much as the people I describe above.

If something like I described was implemented, reproductive rights will be respected, but at the same time it will reduce suffering in a significant way.

This is surely going to be discussed in the future since our genetic pool is currently contaminated with tons of genetic illnesses that will invariably make life difficult, or even unlivable to many people. And the more we discover about the human genome, the easier it will be to recognize the most problematic ones.
Honestly, one of the worst sins of the nazis, aside from the obvious one, was giving euthanasia a terrible reputation. They destroyed what would've been a solution to many illnesses and incurable conditions.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Why stop there? With genetic editing and the eventual designer babies, in a couple hundred years mental illness could be eliminated entirely from the living population because it will be culled from the overall gene pool and extracted before anyone is even born. This will probably result in a very uniform population of normies but I guess without any mental diseases, the money that's currently being spent on that can be used in other ways.

 

[Callie Arcale]

If someone is never going to enjoy their life, such as coming to chronically suffer from anhedonic depression, then they really just ought to be killed,

I strongly disagree. Here's why:

There is no way to measure the value of someone else's life. Only the individual herself can make judgements about the value and quality of her own life. Neither you, nor me, nor indeed anyone else can assess whether someone else's life is worth living or not.

And in order for the individual to assess her own life, she has to live it first.


And btw, I'm just gonna leave this here: the world's greatest mind in physics (apart from Einstein) spent the better part of his life in a wheelchair unable to speak or move, and he still had more lust for life than everyone I know, and contributed more to our knowledge of the universe than you and I could ever dream of. Had this man been born 2000 years ago, they would have fed him to the lions...

Think of all the brillant people we would be feeding to the lions....

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

And btw, I'm just gonna leave this here: the world's greatest mind in physics (apart from Einstein) spent the better part of his life in a wheelchair unable to speak or move, and he still had more lust for life than everyone I know, and contributed more to our knowledge of the universe than you and I could ever dream of. Had this man been born 2000 years ago, they would have fed him to the lions...

Think of all the brillant people we would be feeding to the lions....

That's a good point. If we prematurely kill everyone who's going to suffer from [insert thing to suffer from here], then we're also killing the person or people who'd actually care enough to do something about it and who would want to fix or at least relieve it somehow.

 

[JustLosingMyself]

... this thread, it's premise and some of the answers are true cause for despair about humanity...

 

[Buffy5120]

I'd prefer the government to have euthanasia clinics for the mentally ill, disabled, diseased, and old.

btw this is not me saying that you can't have a decent life with these problems. but I am saying those who can't should have a choice so long as they're an adult.

Exactly

 

[Imaginos]

Well, this thread really went south. I'm not sure what else I expected (given the the controversial title and all) and, in retrospect, I guess I should've just kept it to myself. I also have to say that I really wish there were a way to post in threads without bumping them, since it'd be much better if this thread just died.

Anyway, I just wanted to mention the fact that no; I don't think the government should ever have the power to euthanize whomever it wants. Being perfectly blunt, I really have no opinion at all about other people, or the world, because, frankly speaking, I really don't give a fuck. A whole continent could get ripped apart by the bubonic plague on steroids, or be enslaved by aliens from outer space, and I could honestly care fucking less. Long story short, the entire point of this thread was just to vent about how I wish I could've been executed as a baby and that, personally speaking, I wouldn't have minded being one of the people euthanized by the Nazis while they were doing their culling of the mentally ill. And no, I'm not saying that a bunch of other people should die or have their lives cut short, just so I could have received death at an early age, instead of being trapped where I am now and being too lethargic/cowardly to end my life by my own hands.

What I was trying to say, was that if it were possible to see the entire future of a fetus/baby laid out before you and you knew that they were going to lead a perpetually miserable life and that there was going to be NOTHING REDEEMABLE ABOUT THAT LIFE WHATSOEVER AND THAT THEY WILL EVENTUALLY COME TO WISH EVERY MOMENT THAT THEY WERE DEAD, then the only recourse from then on should be a lethal injection. Now, it's of course needless to say that this is impossible to ever know one way or the other. However, what still pisses me off the most about this hypothetical scenario, is that even if you could know this beyond a shadow of a doubt, there would still be some thick fucking cunt who'd say, "Yes, but life is precious, so therefore they ought to live anyway.".

They'd rather condemn someone to an existence of total misery and constant pain, one that this baby/fetus will come to hate and rue having to be saddled with in the first place, simply out of reflexive obligation to obeying/safeguarding their belief that "LiFe iS gUuD!!". It's basically just a giant fuck you, in the sense that, "I don't care that your life will be a tortuous hellscape, one where you'll be too gutless to even kill yourself. I'm going to make you live anyway because that's WHAT I WANT. What YOU WANT doesn't matter.".

But again, it's a fantasy scenario. Which, as I said in the opening post, makes the entire thing largely moot. What isn't fantasy though, is how most people would react to it, even if they knew the person was totally fucked and they'd never receive a single ounce of happiness their whole lives. As an example of how people would undoubtedly fuck you over in this way, just look at what happened to those who tried to receive assisted suicide from Jack Kevorkian. The police would sometimes come storming in to "save" the person in question from Jack, only for them to stand there shouting, "WHO FUCKING ASKED YOU TO?", as the police proceeded to just derail the entire procedure anyway.

Then encourage them to undergo prenatal genetic counseling to ensure healthy people will be born. this could be achieves through tax breaks or other benefits, since healthy people don't hold back the population as much as the people I describe above.

This assumes genetic engineering reaches such a point where it could even achieve such results in the first place and, not only that, would be widely available to the public. Seems to me it would only end up being a toy/utility for the hyper wealthy to avail themselves of. Either way, I'd argue it would be better/more realistic to simply encourage people who carry hereditary mental illnesses to simply not breed in the first place. Like you said, the government could offer incentives to help achieve this, but I'm sure you'd still have people shouting "EUGENICS!" at the top of their lungs while also trying to champion the notion that yes; we should apparently still propagate known disabilities that significantly reduce quality of life for the sake of salving the egos of others who believe that the severely handicapped are a race on to themselves. One that needs to be allowed the right to breed as much as they want and thereby needlessly create more severely handicapped people.

Honestly, one of the worst sins of the nazis, aside from the obvious one, was giving euthanasia a terrible reputation.

Well, fair enough. That certainly can't be overstated. Although, even if there were euthanasia clinics on every street corner, what if you're too cowardly to end your own life? What do you do then? The survival instinct, if allowed to fester long enough, can trap you into suffering through an overwhelmingly shitty and joyless existence with literally no way out whatsoever. Even if someone were to kill/execute me now, it would be extremely anxiety inducing and painful. Again, I just wish someone could've known what was going to happen to me and could've stuck with me with a lethal injection. If it were possible for me to go back in time, I'd gladly smash baby me's head in with a fucking rock, assuming that's all that was on hand. Even your idea of genetic manipulation doesn't particularly appeal to me since, when it comes down to it, I'd much rather be dead and life simply isn't worth living either way.

the world's greatest mind in physics (apart from Einstein) spent the better part of his life in a wheelchair unable to speak or move, and he still had more lust for life than everyone I know

Agreed. That was precisely part of my point. How even those who are extremely physically disabled have more of a better chance at enjoying life than someone like me does, who's otherwise physically healthy. I'm not saying people like that should be executed, but that someone like me should. I have nothing to offer anyone else and I hate my life/want to die. If these factors could be detected before someone was born, then they ought to be aborted. That's all I was trying to say.

Also, I assume you're referring to Stephen Hawking? It bears remembering that he had already made a name for himself and was renowned around the world before he succumbed to ALS. He was already highly educated and had managed to attend a top university and do most of his best work while his body was still functional. If Stephen Hawking had been disabled from the beginning than I highly doubt he would've ever managed to achieve the same thing and probably wouldn't have been able to even receive a higher education and, instead, would've just been living an obscure life in a care home somewhere.